help me understand

[chsdiyer]

I see many 2013 BX25's for sale for around $14,500-16,000ish. I know tractors hold their value, but i'm trying to understand why a 4 year old used Kubtoa is the same price as the brand new equivalent Massey Ferguson (GC1710 $15,500 + tax). If I'm not mistaken the GC1710 has better performance than the BX25. Can someone in Kubota land tell me if the used BX25's are really worth buying over a new GC1710?

 

[jeff9366]

I cannot speak to the Massey-Ferguson but the Kubota BX25 is a FULLY INTEGRATED tractor-loader-backhoe design/package, not just a Backhoe added to a tractor-loader as a module. You cannot purchase a BX25 without the integrated Backhoe.

Kubota invented the residential tractor segment and the BX25 and its predecessor models have always led the "with Backhoe" sub-category in residential tractors.

Other tractor manufacturers ignored Kubota's growth for ten years, expecting the residential tractor category and Kubota to disappear. Well, that did not happen. Kubota has about half of all residential tractor sales in the USA.

Access to very cheap Japanese finance capital at ten year duration of 9/10s of 1% (yesterday) for "0%" consumer financing of Kubota products helps too.
[US ten year treasury note yesterday was 2.39%]

Others, like you, note excellent Kubota resales. If you purchase with "0%" financing for five years, as almost all Kubota tractor customers do, and resale is high, moderate difference in purchase price is not significant.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I think it is the same principle as my B26 Kubota TLB. The whole tractor is designed around having a backhoe. My B26 is basically the same engine as a B2650 but weighs substantially more than a 2650 with a back hoe added because of the extra strong FEL/ backhoe integrated undercarriage which is evident in the amount of force difference in the FEL lift, backhoe curl and lift weights.
I am not that familiar with the BX25 but I think you will find the BX25 to be in the same category as my B26 analogy above if you check the specs of it and the MF tractor.

Also Kubota's just tend to hold their value better than almost any other CUT tractor.

 

[chsdiyer]

Thanks for the replies! I know Kubota has a great reputation and i can understand why they'd have good resale value but why would you want to buy something used (not knowing how it's been treated) when you can get something new for the same price that seems to perform better. I guess in this instance it's more a question of is kubota that much better than Massey Fergusson? As far as i can tell, the two tractors are built the same in that they are both made to be TLBs. I think the BX25 (now 23) new is about the price of the GC1720 by Massey, but that GC is 25hp I believe. Comparing the GC1710 and BX25...
GC1710:
Breakout force 920 lbs
*Lift to full height at pin 870 lbs
*Digging depth 77.5 in
*Bucket force 2476 lbs
*PTO power 18.7 hp


BX25:
*Breakoutforce 992 lbs
Lift to full height at pin 745 lbs
Dig depth 73 in
bucket force 1936 lbs
pto power 17.7 hp

On paper it would seem the Massey is better and I don't often see them sold used, but the BX25 I see used fairly often (probably cause they sell a lot more of them) and always for about the price of the new GC1710. People buy up the used BX's so I'm just trying to understand, is there a reason or just for the reputation? I don't know much about tractors so i'm trying to figure out if I'm missing something, but it seems to be a no brainer to get the Massey. Although my local dealer doesn't have a great reputation so I might be better off with a Kubota, but if I can get a better tractor and new for the same price...it's hard buy the used one.

 

[ThirdMan]

I think some of the advantages of the Kubota are the dealer network (parts and service readily available), more third-party support (specialized equipment easy to add), and other people will pay a premium when you sell. Think about Apple or Samsung vs smaller phone manufacturers.

 

[LVKubota]

I was very close to buying a new Kubota since it was within a few thousand of the asking price of a used one.

The 0% for 84 months seemed like a no brainer.

Then the mandatory insurance came up on the Kubota financing causing me to recalculate......when I got the private party seller to drop a few thousand more off his asking price, the lightly used Kubota seemed like the better deal.

I went ahead and did the oil change this weekend, will do a complete fluid change in few more hours....peace of mind and she's now on my maintenance schedule.

 

[mile9c1]

The GC1710 doesn't have as as many factory implements as the Kubota (quick attach snow blade, grass catcher, etc.) But if you don't care about those items then you can't go wrong with a new tractor for less money. The GC1710 is definitely a nice unit.

 

[Coyote machine]

Thanks for the replies! I know Kubota has a great reputation and i can understand why they'd have good resale value but why would you want to buy something used (not knowing how it's been treated) when you can get something new for the same price that seems to perform better. I guess in this instance it's more a question of is kubota that much better than Massey Fergusson? As far as i can tell, the two tractors are built the same in that they are both made to be TLBs. I think the BX25 (now 23) new is about the price of the GC1720 by Massey, but that GC is 25hp I believe. Comparing the GC1710 and BX25...
GC1710:
Breakout force 920 lbs
*Lift to full height at pin 870 lbs
*Digging depth 77.5 in
*Bucket force 2476 lbs
*PTO power 18.7 hp


BX25:
*Breakoutforce 992 lbs
Lift to full height at pin 745 lbs
Dig depth 73 in
bucket force 1936 lbs
pto power 17.7 hp

On paper it would seem the Massey is better and I don't often see them sold used, but the BX25 I see used fairly often (probably cause they sell a lot more of them) and always for about the price of the new GC1710. People buy up the used BX's so I'm just trying to understand, is there a reason or just for the reputation? I don't know much about tractors so i'm trying to figure out if I'm missing something, but it seems to be a no brainer to get the Massey. Although my local dealer doesn't have a great reputation so I might be better off with a Kubota, but if I can get a better tractor and new for the same price...it's hard buy the used one.

I'm not a Kubota owner, but I do read a lot about them and their escapades here on TBN. I think you're looking at apples to oranges on some level here. You compare used to new, price point of the two categories, and maybe rightly conclude for the $ the new tractor is a better deal than the used tractor with the stellar reputation.
I also can't comment on the Massey line, which I know even less about, but as an observer of how you're doing your comparison I would hazard a guess you could be right, but you might be wrong too. Confused yet?

I think with most tractors, the resale value sticks close to the new models pricing, or the used ones don't depreciate in the same way as a car does, for instance. BUT, why would one buy used when one can get new for same or less money, in the sense that more or better, on paper features (numbers you show for side by side stats) seem to exist.

If it were me I'd want to know what a used MF would bring several years down the road, based on what you can find in the market line of their current and past tractors. That might be where it costs you in the long run. It may be better deal now, only to lose some of it on the back end, assuming you go to sell or trade in a few years.

You may break even, or it may not make any real difference, IF you plan on keeping whatever you buy for a long time. AND, you did mention a not so good reputation of your local MF dealer- which could factor in more if you need their services during and after warranty.
Usually though most recent tractor brands for what I see as vast majority of buyers hardly ever need dealer service during/after sale; so it may not be a big deal if you get a screaming good buy at purchase time.
Hope this helps sort things somewhat for you.
Good luck with your decision. Let us know what you decide.:thumbsup:

 

[rScotty]

I see many 2013 BX25's for sale for around $14,500-16,000ish. I know tractors hold their value, but i'm trying to understand why a 4 year old used Kubtoa is the same price as the brand new equivalent Massey Ferguson (GC1710 $15,500 + tax). If I'm not mistaken the GC1710 has better performance than the BX25. Can someone in Kubota land tell me if the used BX25's are really worth buying over a new GC1710?

The two tractors - BX25 and GC1710 - do seem very similar. You are being very analytical, but we already know that popularity doesn't have to have a logical reason. So perhaps it's nothing more than popularity... Or it might be that there is some reason that doesn't matter to you.
As you have already seen, there isn't much price difference between slightly used and new. As to whether new or used is preferable mechanically...well, I think that is debateable when we keep in mind that a tractor is probably going to last a lifetime with little or no mechanical issues.

I hope that you go test both machines, see what you think, and let us know what you find. Until you do that, it's all speculation anyway.

A few years back I tried a Massey and was surprised at how much room the operator had compared with Japanese-derived tractors of the same HP. I nearly bought it for that reason alone. You might find something similar to like.
luck,
rScotty

 

[Grandad4]

I see many 2013 BX25's for sale for around $14,500-16,000ish. I know tractors hold their value, but i'm trying to understand why a 4 year old used Kubtoa is the same price as the brand new equivalent Massey Ferguson (GC1710 $15,500 + tax). If I'm not mistaken the GC1710 has better performance than the BX25. Can someone in Kubota land tell me if the used BX25's are really worth buying over a new GC1710?

Another point to consider regarding the retention of value is that tractors - even little baby tractors - follow a long tradition of being much more maintainable/repairable than, say, automobiles. Old school tractors were expressly designed so the farmer could do many repairs in the field so he could keep using it. That's not so much the case today but it is still very likely that a 4 year old Kubota (or other make also), works and performs exactly the same as the day it came from the factory, and will continue to do so for many years. So its functionality as a tool for doing work is very close to a brand new one, and few tractor buyers care about styling as long as the work gets done.

As for comparing prices between brands, it's mostly demand and popularity, I think. In the automotive world, a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry are more popular than whatever car Mitsubishi sells that's equivalent (I don't even know what model that would be). It's a good bet the Honda and Toyota have higher resale value than that Mitsubishi, regardless of whether they are better cars or not.