Help me decide. Dozer or Crawler Loader!!!

[stathamj]

Trying to find out what some of the more experianced operators think. I found an older D4c that the undercarriage was in good shape. But,it did have worn blade pins and holes(Where the blade attaches to the blade frame and dozer frame) and grouser pads(30%). This dozer weighs around 11k lbs. But, probably more, as it has Orops and sweeps. So, maybe 12.5K. I have also found several track loaders in the same price range and wonder if they might be better overall for me. There is a Case 455c and 855D. There was a JD555G and lastly a Komatsu D53s. All of these were in the $13K price range like the dozer. There was also a Cat 931 that was an old farm dozer. Owner said it had an undercarriage of 30-40% for $9,500. I know that weight and power are your friends. All of the loaders have the 4 n 1 or multi-purpose bucket.
I recently purchased an old neglected timber tract and need something to get it into shape again. I don't have time to go the rental route and it's taken 6 months to get someone to come out and look at doing the work and he's 2 months behind. But, he's expensive I thought. But, I'm still having him do it because I needed it done by Labor day and that has come and gone. That's why I'm getting somethingto do it myself.
Basically I'll be using it for fence-lines, cleaning up underbrush, pushing up the underbrush and hauling it to the burn pile. There's also some brush pile that someone before me that need moved and burnt. I will occasionally push and clear out some smaller sapplings and larger dead trees. In one area I thought about a small pond 1/2 acre or so.

So, do you think in your opinions I'd be better off with the small dozer or do you think that the loader whichever one I decide to get would work? Any opinions on the loaders. I will appriciate your responses. I was originally going to get the dozer when I thought it weighed 16K lbs (newer one)vs the 11-12K (older one).

Thanks for your time,

James

 

[ultrarunner]

Nothing beats a dozer for cutting in trails.

That said, all you can really do is push and rip.

It wouldn't be my first choice if you need to move a lot of material from one place to another.

My only Dozer experience is with a CAT D3... about 16k pounds the way it was configured.

A local contractor has a Blade Runner Excavator... it's almost like have a Dozer plus will scoop a yard at a time.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

James it sounds like you have thought this out quite well and kind of the same things we thought about when getting an old back hoe.

Of course with tracked equipment UC condition is critical ALWAYS. Blade pin and hole wear as long is still functional is not a super high concern to me. Something that took years to wear for light personal farm use might last another 20 years.

While I have decided against getting a tracked machine now I did run into one off of a farm that was far from being worn out but it had the single purpose bucket. I would lean to a multi-purpose bucket dozer in your case perhaps.

The one thing that I think is important you start out willing to loose most of your purchase price if a problem is found or develops that will cost the purchase again in repairs.

There are a lot of dogs out there but one can find equipment that for some reason got rebuilt years ago but never was used enough to wear out the rebuild effort. It can take a lot of looking but then make a 30 minute decision when you find "IT".

Best of luck and keep your options open. Parts and old factory service manuals off Ebay, etc carry a lot of weight with me personally.

 

[Bob Rooks]

A dozer fitted with a root rake can make short work of underbrush, and can push up a pretty decent burn pile. If the dozer has a six-way blade, I would consider that over the track loader. I also have a mini-ex with a rake and thumb which is also great for ripping up underbrush and topping up burn piles. IMHO, the dozer is the best candidate for pond work.

 

[stathamj]

Bob, the dozer only has manual angle and tilt. Do, you thinkk a 15-20k lb track loader would do as much as the 11-12k lb Dozer? On thing I thought about when I finish with the loader is selling it a getting a dozer for the pond. Or get the dozer and do all I can then get the loader for routine maintance. Maybe by then it could be a Ag tractor with a FEL on it.

James

 

[Todd727]

Had a 931c with a 4-n-1 bucket and ripper on the back. The only thing I couldn't do was was finish grading. A 931 can do a lot of work. Comparing it to a D4, I could knock down bigger trees, faster. Being able to lift the bucket up high to push gives you a lot more leverage. Plus, you can dig deeper around the roots. Having the multipurpose bucket allowed me to pick up and move just about anything. I cut six miles of trails with that machine. When I needed a dozer for finish grading, I rented one. Once I got the property cleaned up, I sold the 931 and picked up a CTL to keep things cleaned up. Of course, that's the same type of equipment, just smaller. In short, the track loader is much more versatile and I would only recommend the dozer if you were going to just be doing grading and finish grading work.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Can you use the 4-n-1 like a grapple to pick up to pile brush and trees?

 

[Bob Rooks]

Your potential dozer has a manual tilt/angle blade which means you have to plan your cuts well in advance or you'll be spending a lot of time crawling up and down the side of the dozer. The track loader appears to be a viable option for you but crowning roads and trails won't be as easy. You can still dig a pond with the track loader too but it isn't the preferred machine IMHO. I would stick with your original idea about using a CUT for maintenance, a CTL is basically just a skid steer with tracks instead of tires, and can't cover ground like a CUT. Comparing any CTL to say, a 931 Cat is comparing apples to oranges.

 

[cepick]

my suggestion is to buy a crawler loader, which can replace the bulldozer in all aspects.

 

[john40981]

James, how much land do you have and how much of it are you planing on clearing?

 

[stathamj]

40 acres. I'm planning on clearing underneath all of the trees and removing all of the dead standing as well. Here are a few photos and some of the mess that they left behind. This is the small pile there is one that's about 40X25X8'
;
; ;
;

Thanks for the replies everyone,
James

 

[MBTRAC]

We run commercial earthmoving & farming operations.

IMO if I could only have a single "allround" earthmoving machine, a track loader with 4/1 & rippers would be my choice - the track loader may not excell on any single task.....but it will do everything & more than any other individual machine type, simply if this is your "only" machine it's versatility can't be beaten across all general digging/loading/clearing/dozing applications.......Yes, despite what some may say a track loader is quite productive using a slot dozing method pushing ponds/dams.

As for brands I advise stick with Cat models 935/955/953/977 (consider you can pay a premium for the Cat name which is offset to an extent by readily available parts new/secondhand), or my preference (for ease of use/maintenance/reliability) Case models 850/855/1450/1455 (watch for oil in the coolant & electrolysis, also parts can be little harder to come by) & Komatsu models D55/D53/D75 ( a little more complex/rarer on the ground)......The real key is to purchase something in reasonable condition & above all with good undercarriage (the cost of replacement grousers,chains,rollers,idlers,sprockets ...etc will be well inexcess of the purchase price of most s/h machines....).

Consider also, a machine below 85hp will be limited in it's ability in heavy applications/economy of operation in larger projects & :
- transport can add up quickly on large machines
- machines above c.150hp have a limited market/resale opportunities
- parts, undercarriage, maintenance, fuel usage is relative to the size of the machine with larger machines working out cheaper on cost/tonne/hour basis if you have the scale of project hours to justify the larger machine size

And if you're going down the D4 dozer path, the D4C generally is much cheaper for good reason as they have a reputation for having signifcantly weaking back ends than the D4D's.

Whether you ultimately decide on a track loader, dozer or even an excavator the key to maximise the life of any undercarriage is too plan your work cycle path to minimise unproductive "walking" of the machine & avoid short radius power turns.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Great post.
Thanks

 

[Gale Hawkins]

DUP post but it is worth two Thanks.

 

[Turbys_1700]

My dad just sold his D4D crawler and 941B loader...
The loader had a 4n1 bucket...
IMHO if I was looking to clear property a crawler loader with 4n1 bucket and rippers would be the best choice...

 

[stathamj]

MBTRAC, without going into lengthy details. Why those series say over the 939, 941, 943. Problem is I can't really find anything locally and I don't have the time to go out of state to look at them. They seem cheaper out of state. But, by the time you had it trucked in the price would be about the same. I just called on 3 of the ones I mentioned and they sold already. Headed to Mexico!!! So, I'm still looking. I would like a D6D. But, they're more than I want to spend. So today I was looking at some D6B's & D6C's. The only loader let is a Case 450 and I'm not sure it would be big enough. Any thoughts anyone?

Thanks MBTRAC and everyone else too.

James

 

[bcp]

IMO if I could only have a single "allround" earthmoving machine, a track loader with 4/1 & rippers would be my choice

A few days ago I saw a track loader with a backhoe. About all left to add would be a crane on the side.

Bruce

 

[Todd727]

Yep, a very strong grapple.

 

[Bob Rooks]

A few days ago I saw a track loader with a backhoe. About all left to add would be a crane on the side.

Bruce

That would be a pipe layer. Cat purpose builds them, I think others do too. Find them in auctions mostly.

 

[MBTRAC]

MBTRAC, without going into lengthy details. Why those series say over the 939, 941, 943. Problem is I can't really find anything locally and I don't have the time to go out of state to look at them. They seem cheaper out of state. But, by the time you had it trucked in the price would be about the same. I just called on 3 of the ones I mentioned and they sold already. Headed to Mexico!!! So, I'm still looking. I would like a D6D. But, they're more than I want to spend. So today I was looking at some D6B's & D6C's. The only loader let is a Case 450 and I'm not sure it would be big enough. Any thoughts anyone?

Thanks MBTRAC and everyone else too.

James

I've no direct experience with the 939's & the only two operations I know with 939's had nothing but problems with them from new - underpowered, overheating, weak hydraulics ...etc. largely unloved by operators & operations here.....the 941's were a reasonable piece of gear, quite a basic design but very aged now with decent examples very hard to come by & reasonably priced secondhand parts not easily sourced.......943's don't have enough power to do anything where a track loader should be required but on the positive side also have insufficient power to hurt themselves :laughing: ...........the 953's are a much more capable machine (with the 963's virtual "hot rods").......point for point/$ for $ a good 955K or L powershift is arguably the best Cat track loader for private ownership SH, stick to post 1972 production (thereby avoiding the D330 "hand grenade" engine) with preferably the 3304 engine......Exercise caution with D6's as they're often used in applications well above their design intent & therefore cop more than their far share of (ab)use.........

On any machine you are considering make certain to satisfy yourself under load & at full operating temperatures everything consitently works fine (amazing how
engine, powershift, hydraulic..."gremlins" aren't evident when a machine is being worked softly....)

The Case 450's are pretty much toys which limits their versatility, with all the costs of track loader/dozer (I have owned/own both) but without the capability/capacity to tackle anything serious day in day out....great machines in a specialised application but their value is questionable as a general duties "tool" - to illustrate the point, below are 3xCase machines we own/have owned: the 450C Dozer is nothing more than a glorified trenching machine, compare the "weak" loader frame/strength on our ancient 450 track loader hoe (we still use privately on a regular basis) with the far more robust loader frame on the 855C