Seeders Help me choose a no-till seeder/drill for native bunchgrasses

[WildlifeBio]

New participant here. I purchase and manage properties in a growing network of wildlife conservation areas in the Pacific NW. These properties often come to us with scattered ag fields in various conditions: active dryland crop lease, enrolled CRP, previously-enrolled and neglected CRP, abandoned hay and pasture fields, etc. (5-100 acres each). Our goal for these fields, in general, is to convert them back into native cover (to the extent practical).

I'm interested in exploring seeding options for these sites. Our typical initial seed mix consists of native bunchgrasses (mainly Idaho fescue) and short-lived bromes. In past years, we've used conventional methods: chisel plow (when necessary), disc, harrow, broadcast seed, harrow again. If we continue on this route, I'll probably start incorporating a packer roller. But I'd like to shift toward no- or minimum-till methods, and I'd also like the option to seed some native forbs at a later date (using the same equipment, if possible). Being able to rehabilitate smaller patches without taking everything back to bare soil is desirable also.

Here's what I'm basically looking for, at this early stage:

• Ability to plant into prepared ground, dry weed litter, and established bunchgrass stands;
• High-density stands without multiple passes (worried that typical drilled spacing won't result in competitive stands during the first few years (?));
• Native seed box plus options for larger forb seeds;
• 7-10 working width;
• Operable with 82- and 110-HP tractors;
• Pull-type preferred over 3-Pt, depending on the implement.

Effectiveness, reliability, and ease of setup and use are my most important considerations, though a price point around $15K or less would be good. I've not found any convenient rental or loaner options in my area. Are any of the no-/low-till seeders a reasonable replacement for a proper no-till drill (Truax, Tye, etc.) for planting native bunchgrasses into dry weed litter and existing stands? I'm looking particularly at the Land Pride NTS25 no-till seeders, as LP and JD dealers are local. Other brands are available regionally. What should I be looking for?

This is new territory for me, so any thoughts or input would be greatly appreciated.

 

[oosik]

Welcome to TBN and the forum. Suggestion - answers to inquiries could be more specific if we knew your location. You may be into an area that few on this site have ever ventured. Larger equipment and management of wildlife conservation areas. Specifically - no or low till combined with planting of native cover.

I suggest that you check with Dept of Agriculture and Ag Depts at regional universities(Ex - WSU-Pullman, WA) for specifics. Also look to the native seed producers in this area - Landmark - Rainier - L&H Seeds.

I'm very interested in the answers you will receive.

 

[WildlifeBio]

Appreciate the follow-up, Oosik. Profile updated. Sites are in the Idaho Palouse and nearby canyonlands. Rocks and eroded gullies are present in most fields. Slopes vary from 0% to over 100%. A multi-year weed control regimen (glyphosate, mowing, and/or burning) typically precedes our seeding efforts.

And yes, WSU and NRCS both provide a number of helpful technical bulletins, articles, brochures, etc. Unfortunately, most resources speak in general terms about seeding equipment rather than specific models or features. And many sources were written prior to the arrival of some of these newer no-till seeders (the NTS25, in particular).

 

[bkrgi]

Your best option is to look into slit seeders which are specific to seeding grasses/turf ie. OS15 Series Overseeders | Land Pride
or Vari-Slice Seeder Drill for Reclamation Kasco MFG
google is your friend

 

[Foodplot]

Welcome to the forum. What makes Truax and similar machines so appropriate for NWSG is that they have picker wheels to pull the fluffy seeds out of the box and drop tubes that won't clog with such seeds. They also may have depth limiters on the planting wheels, and presser wheels to eliminate the need for cultipackers. I bought our Truax because much of the land here is hilly and rocky, and the rear wheel Truax gives you the ability to adjust height and angle at two points (2 sets of hyd cylinders), as well as to keep the overall width of the drill to a minimum. I've pulled ours with as little as 35HP (not ideal), and mostly with about 50HP. Small seed and large seed boxes can be mounted as well as the NWSG box. If you are an active in your discipline and attend The Wildlife Society annual conference, Truax is usually on hand as a vendor. I don't know if they attend the regionals. I occasionally see their drills at equipment auctions in CREP/CRP areas. Our state Fish and Wildlife private lands biologists have them to assist farmers with implementing grasslands, perhaps yours do too. Good luck!

 

[frogracer]

Contact Wildlife Habitat Federation. Although they are located in Texas there is a good possibility they can help you select the correct no-till-drill planter.

Home

Email contact is on the website.

Cheers

 

[WildlifeBio]

I appreciate all the replies so far. Several viable options, apparently. Does anyone have experience using Land Pride's NTS25 or similar spike-roller no-till seeder? Comparison to either an overseeder or Truax drill for any of the applications I've described above? Our primary natives here are Idaho fescue, bluebunch wheatgrass, and Sandberg bluegrass, none of which are particularly fluffy. That said, I do recognize the value of picker wheels and associated design elements. Based on photos alone, the NTS25 appears to feature picker wheels and rudimentary agitators in its optional native seed box.

 

[MickeyDBC]

I have a Frontier CS1384 that I am pretty happy with. Only downside with the spiked roller type is you can bend the spikes (more from handling and trailering) but if you are handy with a grinder and welder they are easy to fix. They do make a thick stand and will bust through hard crust to get the seeds in, but you will have to plant a little more pounds per acre vs. something like a great plains no till planter because they leave some seeds on the surface. If your soil is not real hard there are a lot of older Brillion seeders that are a cross between a seeder and a cultipacker but I have heard that you need pretty sandy soil for them to work well (we have a lot of clay here so I wanted something that would get the seeds down in a little better).

 

[Dadnatron]

I cannot recommend what to buy...

But I can definitely recommend what NOT to buy!

Do NOT purchase a Landpride NTS machine. It 'seems' as though it should work great. When comparing the overall functionality with a Brillion seeder, they have very similar engineering. And the NTS seems to have a few benefits that the Brillion does not have.

HOWEVER... it doesn't work worth a ****! I purchased brand new, last year and have fought it since. Calibration is ridiculous and changes randomly. Evenness across prepared and flat ground is awful. Calibrated 'perfectly', the scale and recommendations are useless and not anywhere close to what you end up getting. After about 30 tries at calibration, I finally tuned it to 10lbs/ac alfalfa. The calibration was completed exactly as recommended, on blocks, in my barn. I dumped 100lbs of seed on 2.5 ac. I had the same problem in various forms for the remaining 80ac. Sometimes too light... sometimes too heavy.

The only thing consistent about this machine is its complete and utter INCONSISTENCY!

Multiple calls to LP customer service and its engineering department were not helpful. Landpride picked this line up as part of the purchase of Great Plains. Landpride is not happy with it, because of how poorly it functions and all the crap they get as a result. I've heard they are discontinuing it, but I don't know whether that is accurate.

I'd recommend a hoe and just scattering seed by hand, rather than that machine.

Also, people are so worried about those spikes 'tearing up the soil too much'... they don't. I had perfectly prepared and rolled ground. I put the spikes at all 'aggressiveness' levels and the MOST aggressive just mixed it up a bit. They will NOT tear up anything you already have planted and growing to ANY appreciable degree. They also will NOT prepare any unprepared ground, to any appreciable degree. It just does not work the way they state and you will hear over and over again, from people who HAVEN'T used one, that they are too aggressive. But I can tell you as a guy who owns one... they are not nearly aggressive enough, if you want to plant into something.

For your purposes, I'd go with a NT drill. Not as sexy... but you can use it for all your stated purposes. I had looked at the Brillion Till-n-seed and perhaps I should have gone that route. I've not used it, but it might be able to do what you want it to do.