HELP!!! IM DISGUSTED WHAT DO I DO

[Anonymous Poster]

Started looking for a tractor 2 mths ago went to my local Kubota dealer and he gave me list price quotes. So Internet to the rescue, found this forum (which by the way is awesome), also found Carver equiptment and got some quotes from Steve (great guy, straight shooter ).

About a week later I get a call from my local dealer asking if I had made a decision. I informed him I had not and would most likely be doing business with Carver when I did he instantly started telling me what a huge mistake I was making anything from the tractor is probably used, defective, grey market....etc. I then informed him of this forum and that Carver would be destroyed in 6 months if he were shady, to which he responded "Go ahead buy from him just dont expect any dealer within 500 miles from here to touch you with a ten foot pole, trust me he said I Know about this guy we local dealers have discussed this very issue and are talking to Kubota about putting an end to it". GIVE ME A BREAK!!! Putting an end to honesty what a concept. Now I dont know what to do? If this is what comes with a Kubota I dont want one. From talking with other local dealers I get similar quotes LIST PRICE . It sure seems to me this industry (at least in my area) needs a serious enema . Let's get with reality and have a healthy dose of honesty Post the invoice price and let ME decide what your services are worth. Let me ask this:

Would you hire a mechanic to work on equipment without first discussing his/her hourly wage, only to find out after two weeks of work they were costing you 25% MORE than their contemporaries? I DON'T THINK SO. I am the king of buyers remorse when I find out someone else got a better deal. I am in the service industry, I know if you serve someone well they tell 10 people, if you serve them poorly they tell 250 (stats from service meetings). Let me tell you I tell EVERYBODY!!! Here is a message for KUBOTA I believe the compact market has explosive potential I know of several people who are buying and like me are disgusted with attitudes from dealers WHY should I have to pay someone 500.00 to tell me the invoice price of a tractor!!!. Enough of my ranting and raving. Can I get an Amen or am I a lone wolf.

Seriously I would like to thank the inventor of this forum I have learned a great deal from all the info posted here and continue to learn more every day (Much to the dismay of local dealers) and would appreciate any info on how to proceed with this significant purchace.

Thanks

 

[MarkV]

Rebel, I can understand why you would be pxxxxx off. If a dealer talked to me that way he would never sell me anything! I know alot of people have bought from Steve that have nothing but good things to say. Either, they have good local dealers or, like myself, no problems with their Kubota's. Guess this is one of those times I would be looking at other dealers or brands with better dealers in the area. Good luck. By the way, where are you located? Maybe someone knows a good dealer around your area.

 

[Bird]

rebel, If that is, in fact, the attitude of that local dealer, then you can be sure I wouldn't buy anything from him, or take anything to him for service. And it is regrettable that any manufacturer would have such a dealer, but I'm afraid it's a fact of life with almost any product or manufacturer. There are good dealers and bad dealers just as there are good and bad in every occupation. Hopefully, the bad ones don't last long, but sometimes they do. In my case, I know of 4 Kubota dealers in the area, and unfortunately, the closest one to me is a person I wouldn't do business with if he were the only tractor dealer in the state. He once offered to sell me a tractor at his "cost" if I'd sell him my motorhome at a price well below wholesale value. And then when I told him that 3 other dealers had quoted me prices considerably less than his "cost" he went to screaming and yelling at me for talking to other dealers. Unbelieveable? Yep, it was for me, too. I still bought a Kubota, elsewhere of course, (and sold the motorhome at a higher price, but to someone who realized he was getting a bargain).

Bird

 

[W5FL]

Tell us where you live. Carver sells good new products and is very reliable. I live in North Texas and found 4 dealers willing to sell me a Kubota tractor at a reasonable price. Your dealer obviously wants to make all the money he can and you want to buy the product at a better price than he wants to sell. Contact other dealers, as I assure you that they do not all behave this way, particularly around the larger metro areas.

If they do, buy one from Steve and enjoy yourself. Fortunately they are relatively trouble free. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[gordon]

In any industry there are good and bad dealers. Sounds to me like you got one of the old school dealers--tractor at list price or I don't sell it, well boys times are a changin. The day of list price is long gone and hopefully so will that dealer before long. If in fact he would have said another price somewhat close to Carvers but to come off like that is not good business sense.
The salesmen at my local dealer said some dealer was killing them on alot of deals after I mentioned that I had priced a L4310 and L4610 from Carver. They of course asked the price and and I told him and he said we would only be making less than a thousand on the deal then stopped talking dead in his tracks after realizing what he had said. That told me that they would still be making a profit but just not as big.
In sales you can go after the customer two different ways--sell a few at list--or sell a bunch at a discount. Well Carvers and a few others are going the second route and alot of dealers are doing the first.
When you went to buy a tractor 15 years ago you would never call a dealer 200 miles away from you if you had a local dealer. The shame of it is alot of dealers still think that because you live 20 miles from him and that is his so called selling area that you are oblogated to buy from him. So don't kill the tractor because of a knucklehead dealer.
With you being in the service industry think about this--How many times you LISTED CARVERS NAME and how many times I did the same how is that for the best and least expensive way to get name recognition you tell me who went to business school and a dealer who will be around in twenty years. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
By the way it was very classy of you not to metion the knucklehead dealer. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Good luck in your quest

Gordon

 

[Thomas]

Rebel,
I would seek out another dealership.

Sounds like to much pressure for sales.
Good Luck.


Thomas..NH

 

[David USMC]

For what it is worth, I read a post on another site about Deere doing all their lawn care retailing over the internet and leaving the service to the local dealers. Well.Duh...this is what Carver is doing. Carver sells tractors the best way he knows how. However, the limitations of this focus is a tractor requires upkeep. Are people prepared to approach a local dealer and state what a great price the got on their tractor but, I need service on whatever. The local dealer would naturally state...why didnt you buy from me and I will have to charge you X for service. The dynamics of this situation have yet to be resolved. The major manufactures are going to have to address these problems..in the mean time us mere peasants are going to have to sit on the sidelines.....hopefully with a tractor that will fulfill our needs without breaking our pocketbook.

 

[gordon]

First you wouldn't be the brightest bulb on the sign if you bragged to the local dealer about the deal you got. What he doesn't know wont hurt him I guess is the best way to put it.
At the shop I work at we do warranty work on units bought from other dealers and this is how it works. First the people who bought from us get appointments then people who bought from other dealers its only fair to service our customers first. But all work we do under warranty is at no charge to the customer afterall thats what a warranty is for isn't it?
If the dealer is worth anything he would try to sell service afterall sales sells the first unit and service sell the rest--meaning--if a customer is happy with our service then he would be much more apt to buy from us. This has happened many times.
Its time for these stoneage tractor dealers to wake up times are a changin. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
gordon

 

[stvman]

David USMC: I understand why Deere is doing what they are doing. My industry is the same way you sell the lower margin product direct to compete, my own company uses 3rd party vendors that compete against me in my territory, but I still do the warranty repair and I still get paid. I do not resent the customer for trying to save a buck. My beef is a 14,000 dollar KUBOTA in North Carolina Is not worth 20,000 in New York and if it is I just found a new line of work. As for arguments from dealerships about overhead take a look at Wal-Mart you cant find overhead much higher than that, but they kick butt because of quantity and good service not by selling 6000.00 dollar tractors for 12,000.00 bucks. In other words if you can only sell 6 tractors a year diversify. I spent approxamately 15 minutes with the dealer he's going to charge to put the tractor together, load the tires,put on the loader plus tack on 3 or 4 thousand ( WITH A T) dollars profit on top I DONT THINK SO TIM!!! I would rather use a shovel.

 

[ejb]

rebel,

Find another dealer at all costs...I also don't think his response is typical...when I went looking for my tractor (a JD5410), I searched across the interent for the best price and finally found exactly what I wanted in Ohio at an unbeliveable good price (I am in Mass; thats a few thousand miles away). Of course the dealer would arrange shipping etc to get it here...I went to my local JD dealer and he had exactly the opposite attitute of your kubota dealer...he stated he would really rather that we be able to work out a good price on one of his tractors, but he understood completely if I decided to buy it from across the country, especially if he couldn't come close to the price...he wished me luck and made sure I knew he would still be here if/when I needed any warrantly service, parts, attachments or other tractors down the road...now this guy knows how to run a business...as it later turned out, once I added in the cost of shipping and having a few items added to my order, and the hassle of dealing with a dealer 1500 miles away, I went back to my local dealer and was able to negotiate a price that was just as good (better in fact) that buying from across the country when you factored in the shipping...the moral of the story is your local dealer really blew it...had my local JD dealer treated me like your Kubota dealer did, I never would have gone back for anything, no matter what. As much as I would like to turn this into a JD is better than Kubota story, I am sure there are as many backward thinking JD dealers across the country as there are knuckleheaded Kubota dealers. Bas business people come in all colors...find another dealer (...and don't rule out your local JD dealer!)

Good luck with whatever machine you buy!

 

[Bird]

I'm with you on this, Gordon. I can't imagine someone bragging to his local dealer about getting a better price elsewhere, but how many of us have bought a car or pickup from one dealer, and at some point in time go to another dealer for warranty service, whether the reason was purchase price or something else? Since we spent 5 years traveling, I bought a new motorhome in Las Vegas, towed a new car behind it that I bought in Dallas, had a little warranty work done on the car in Georgia and on the motorhome in Ohio and Virginia, and I never had a problem. Why should it be any different with tractors? And it only seems logical to me for a dealer to put his own customers first, but to cheerfully help the others as soon as possible and they may become his customers in the future.

Bird

 

[TomG]

Yes, I believe that's the idea behind auto leasing. Why it can be done so it seems cheap compared to buying. As I understand, the idea is that the customer has to keep coming back to the dealer. Then, there's an opportunity to sell the customer another car. Of course, the idea works only if the service is good enough to keep customers happy.

 

[BobT]

Gordon & Bird & others,

You're right on this issue. Used to be that only a farmer bought a tractor. He probably lived on the same plot for 2-4 generations, so it was logical that the same dealer would sell and service his equipment.

Now lots of people other than farmers are picking up these $20K+ machines. In America, people move an average of every 3 years---so, the RULE is going to be, dealers must service equipment not bought from their own dealership. Same is true of cars, boats, etc.

Also, while leasing tractors isn't so popular as with cars, yet, it likely will be. That means lots more equipment out in the marketplace, all needing service. Any dealer who blocks this off is digging his own ditch, IMO.

No doubt, Kubota is one of the "older" type companies. But with GM, Ford, etc (all "old style" companies) racing to the digital sales world full tilt, I am sure Kubota will have to adapt to this new world too.

Still, you don't have to antagonize the dealer whose price is being beat. Just bring in your tractor for service. Why tell him what the deal was?

My .02 worth.

BobT.

A Indiana Boy

 

[Muhammad]

Bird,

<font color=blue>He once offered to sell me a tractor at his "cost" if I'd sell him my motorhome at a price well below wholesale value. </font color=blue>

/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif That is a first!

 

[gordon]

Now that is a smart dealer always leave the door open. He might not have made as much on the sale but he will make that back and then some over the years with parts and service.

Gordon

 

[MChalkley]

Rebel - Anytime I buy anything, I want the dealer to make a reasonable profit. I want him to be in business the next time I need something. I don't want him to make so little that he'll go under (but, on the other hand, I don't want her to make so much that he can retire early either).

I think dealers try to make a profit on everything - it would be foolish to do otherwise. To sell a tractor for no profit because you're banking on the service is obviously a recipe for business failure, given the amount of service a tractor needs. And as for performing service for free - why? And for how long? It just doesn't make sense. And if a dealer makes money on service, yet refuses to service someone's tractor because they bought it elsewhere, he's too stupid to stay in business long. Just make sure all your neighbors know of his attitude. Of course, they'll find out for themselves in due time, but you can do them a favor and keep him from having an opportunity to abuse them, too.

It's incredible how many folks refuse to take responsibility for their own actions. If they're unhappy, they say it's because someone made them that way. What they don't realize is that they can't feel any way they don't allow themselves to. If they don't succeed, they say it's because someone else cheated. In reality, the fault is usually their own. This particular dealer chooses to believe that if he loses a sale to Carver, it's Carver's fault. In reality, it's no one's but his own. He has to understand that the choice to sell or not is his own. If you want a Kubota, he stands a better chance of selling you one than anyone else, unless his own foolishness or stubbornness gets in the way. I can't believe anyone would buy from Carver instead of a local dealer if the prices were fairly close. All the dealer has to say is: "Ok, you got a price from Carver, so you've got a baseline price - what will you pay for one?" You may feel that you still don't want to buy from him because you had to batter him into lowering his price, or not. And of course, if he were content to make less money on the tractor, the exchange would never have occurred in the first place. He probably has a reason to justify his pricing, but he can only have an excuse to justify his attitude.

Mark

 

[Rick Jay]

Hi,

Having recently just purchased a B2910, I can tell you what I did. After getting three internet prices (delivered to my door, with the equipment I desired), I then returned to my local dealer to talk prices. I had been there a couple of times before and developed a "feel" for him, so to speak. I liked the way he treated me. I let him offer me his price first. A bit of a discount, but not as much as any of the three internet offers. I asked him if he could "sharpen his pencil" a bit, and he said they don't do that. We talked about some other options, and finally I showed him the three prices that I had and told him that I would like to see something in that range. (I kept the identities of the three dealers secret, but I'm sure he knew one of them was Steve Carver.)

He thought some more, and after a bit of..."how about this"... and I countered with "well, I'll pay for this if you throw in that", we eventually settled on a deal that was within the three estimates, not including sales tax. (With the sales tax, it was just over the highest internet bid.) I consider the sales tax as my burden for dealing with a local dealership. After all, he can't do anything about this tax-crazy state we live in (Massachusetts).

If you haven't already purchased your tractor, and this is the only dealer near you and you place a high value on buying local, then perhaps you should try to approach him one more time. We all have bad days, you could've caught him on one. On the other hand, if he turned you off so much that you want nothing to do with him, then by all means look elsewhere. Personally, I really wouldn't hesitate to buy over the internet, and definitely would have had my dealer not been so open-minded.

The internet is going to change the way most businesses are run, and those that are most adaptable can use it to their advantage.

Good Luck.

~Rick

 

[Bird]

Yep, Muhammad, a truly amazing experience. And the most amazing thing is that the guy's still in business. I was new to the area at the time, but since then found that none of my neighbors will even try to do business with him.

Bird

 

[MikeF]

rebel, I feel your pain. I too am about to purchase a new kubota & it will not be from a local dealer, And I have bought a lot of equipment from him over the years. Here is my problem, I got quotes from 3 different dealers close to me and they were all fairly close on the prices. Then I found this site & Steve Carver. After getting a quote from him I feel like my local dealers are all crooks! I dont plan to even give them a second chance at the sale, I asked for their best deal and they gave it to me (not even close), maybe when they see me go up the road with my new tractor they will realize I was serious! Gordon hit the nail on the head (times are canging) My only concern is service but with a kubota it's a pretty safe gamble. Good luck with your purchase!

Mike

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Wow,what a deal,what is it with some dealers anyway?I live in a small rural area where dealers are not a plenty.We have gone to our Chevy dealership the past five times we have traded vehicles,and tried very hard to spend money with them,telling them every time that we would like to spend our money locally,and try to support there business.I can't tell you how I just don't understand why a business such as this doesn't realize that most us of work,and work hard to make a living,and we're not just going to make out a check for whatever they ask.We've driven about 90 miles away from home each time we've traded vehicles and have saved about 2,000.00 on each trip.Now that's around $10,000 we saved,and several dollars that the local boys have let get away from them.What really chaps their rear-end is when they HAVE to perform any warranty work on one of these cars or trucks.No differant in the tractor world,a local dealer will HAVE to perform any warranty work that might come up.We have owned three Kubotas over the past few years,and have not had a problem one.We bought our B2710 last summer from our local dealer only after I had shown him published internet prices,and that we would like to spend our money locally,He matched the best price we could find on the web,and seemed to be happy to do so.Now the business world is changing as we speak,There is old saying out there"When your finished changing,your finished."I'd say,go shoppin,find the best deal you can live with,and go for it.I wouldn't worry about that butt-head,remember,your trying to buy one of the best compact tractors in the world.