Help! Deere, Kubota, New Holland, or Mahindra??

Egon · Jun 13, 2004

Doc:

""In three hours I was baling hay again. We had severe storms coming in and they saved me about $15,000 in hay that would have been ruined.""

Doc, these are situations very few of us see as most of our tractors are not used for primary income. It is difficult to visualize the importance of service and reliabilty of equipment operating in this this type of situation. The windows of working oportunity are short yet must be met to produce a viable crop/income.

A lawn may remain uncut for weeks while the lawn mower is under repair but no real damage is done. I have a friend who has two 1/4 million dollar combines. They may see just a little over two weeks of operation per year. Any loss of operating time during those two weeks would create an impact on the years income.

Not all peoples view points are formed from the same base requirements thus changing the factors influencing the choice of their tractor.

Those turtle ponds are impressive and best left for the large earthmoving equipment.

Egon

Woodbeef · Jun 13, 2004

Are you saying Deeres need rebuilds before only 10,000 hours of use?

Any quality tractor should go over 10,000 hours before needing a rebuild with only routine maintenence and care.

Woodbeef · Jun 13, 2004

Hmmmm.....turtle farmer,eh......interesting.......just hope they ain't snappers!!

Do yourself a big favor,check out all of the brands available. They are all good these days no matter who makes them. AGCO,CNH,Kubota,and Deere are the big brands true,but Zetor-Century,Mahindra,Kioti,Long,Branson are all up there with the the others. You might find one of the lesser known brands you like better. As for parts all companies have quick parts,but also all have parts that get caught on back order. Don't buy into the BS that only one major brand supports you and the others leave you hanging........

To20Chris · Jun 13, 2004

How do we get from "I'm not saying that it won't turn out to be - a reliable performer" to "they're cheep"? Just because you personally have no experiece with them does not mean they are no good.

I'm glad they supported as they did - and they should. I'm seeing a good dealer supporting a valuable customer. Your dealer stocks the part, and was willing to go out and do the job at your place - that's the dealer. I'm well aware that JD has an exellent reputation for service and support. Do you really think a guy who buys one $20K CUT is going to routinely get that level of service, in any location, just because it is JD? Unlikely. The level of support one gets with any brand will vary from dealer to dealer, and depend on how much money the customer spends. Basicly, you are farming and you have a bunch of tractors from one brand, likely from the same dealer in a agricultural area. That gives you leverage and support that most of us will never see, so your experiences may not translate very well to the average CUT buyer. Beyond that, the level of service and support provided by the marketing/sales/distribution organization (JD) is not directly related to the quality of the design and manufacture provided by the people who make it, other than that JD should have a lot of leverage.

It is true that I would not buy just any tractor, without regard for the brand and how they are set up. Some of the Chinese tractors are set up such that the factory has no obligation to support what they make, and the sales orgainizations are not big enough to give me confidence. Painting Kioti with that same brush is absurd. Mahindra is selling tractors from various manufacturers, just like most of the big US brand names, and I don't know what the parts availability is, as I did not research them much.

As many have said, dealer support should be a serious consideration in buying a tractor. Features, value, and quality of design and manufacture are important too. Cost is also an important consideration, and everyone must strike their own balance in that regard.

DK35vince · Jun 13, 2004

( Do yourself a big favor,check out all of the brands available. They are all good these days no matter who makes them. AGCO,CNH,Kubota,and Deere are the big brands true,but Zetor-Century,Mahindra,Kioti,Long,Branson are all up there with the the others. You might find one of the lesser known brands you like better. As for parts all companies have quick parts,but also all have parts that get caught on back order. Don't buy into the BS that only one major brand supports you and the others leave you hanging........ )

I'm with woodbeef !

sassafraspete · Jun 13, 2004

I think all posters here have had valid points. There is a big difference between running the big rigs for your livelyhood, and being a weekend warrior, and using a small tractor to maintain a few acres.

My observation around here is that the Farmers are using a lot of JDs...and I have an interesting story to tell about a farmer friend. He was harvesting and broke something on his JD combine....this was on a Sunday evening. His dealership was closed....but he went there with his toolbox, went out on the lot and removed a part he needed from another combine, then got his rig running again. On Monday morning , he calls the guy to tell him what he had done. That's the kind of relationship you might have if you spend the big money. Now me, I would have been picked up for stealing.

sassafraspete

Bird · Jun 13, 2004

( I was baling thursday and broke an axle on the tractor. )

Not to be a smart alec, but I gotta ask. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif How in the world did you manage to break an axle? I always thought breaking axles was driver error. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif I broke one in a '46 Chevy once, and I sure know what I did wrong to do it. And I remember when my Dad took a job as a "swamper" on a truck in the oilfields and when the driver broke an axle, he was fired on the spot and Dad was promoted to driver. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

tough451 · Jun 13, 2004

Look at the Ag utility tractors they are a little bigger than the cuts in the long run the extra weight and hp may pay off. I have been given the task of finding a rite of way mower (tractor ) for the town I work for. Deere,Massey,Case can all put us on a 4wd for around 20,000. The fel will add about 4500. I do think you should look at a 45 pto tractor at the least brand doesnt really matter just find a dealer you like. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Kyle_in_Tex · Jun 13, 2004

The true test will be the test of time.

20- or 30 years from now with thousands of hours.

Can you get a part?

Will they still be in business?

I talked to a fellow 3 weeks ago that restores old JD's for a hobby. He said Deere still sells some parts for stuff made in the 1930's.

CMunger · Jun 13, 2004

Cummins has been buying engines from Kukje, and selling them as there "A" series engines for almost 2 years now. The new, Zetor/Century tractors being introduced have this new "Tier 2" engine. The engine was developed by a joint relationship with Cummins and Kukje engineers. These are the only Compact Utility Tractors to have wet replacable sleeves.
Chuck M.

FLDave · Jun 13, 2004

I am very sorry. I was not trying to create any bad feelings regardind brand comparison. I can see that many of you are happy with your purchases for many of the same reasons. I can also see that many of you are very passionate about your machine(s) or favorite brand. I was trying to get as much information as I can before I visit a Dealer and fall into this same catagory. You see I've never had a tractor or even an ATV before and I am afraid I will fall in love with the first one they let me ride. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Don, by the way I PM'd you another note but it didn't register that it went out? Did you get my second note?

I am thankful for all of your responses and do not want to seem disrespectful if I do not address them all.

I want to begin by addressing John Deere, New Holland, and Kubota. Here's what I came up with:

John Deere
JD 990 40.4 hp/35 hp P.T.O.
JD4510 39hp/33 hp P.T.O.
JD4610 44 hp/37 hp P.T.O.
JD4710 48 hp/41 hp P.T.O.
All of the above have the Yanmar 4TNE84 engine the JD4710 has bigger displacement.
JD5105 50 hp/45 hp P.T.O. John Deere Powertech engine

I found an fairly recent thread where a fellow member (Pigeon) found a JD4710 (4x4) with dual mid SCV's and a 460 FEL for $22,900.00. Heres a link to the thread:

link

Is this price even possible anymore? Are the 10 Series being phased out by the new 20 Series? Anyone with experience with these above units do you think they would be right for my needs? Thanks.

Ok, on to New Holland. I guess my two best choices would be the TC40 or the TC45. I found a dealer in TX with what seems to be pretty good prices. Can anyone check out this link and tell me if these prices are good? Thanks.

http://www.wctractor.com/tc_series.htm

Ok, Kubotas next. MX500? M4900? L Series? The following link goes to a dealer with a MX5000 4x4 for $16,500. Is this a good price and unit? Should I look at the M4900 or the L Series?

http://www.tristaterentals.com/kubota.htm

Here is another Kubota Dealer with some good looking packages:

http://www.deenimplement.com/
On this link you need to click "Monthly Specials"

There are just too many choices and as I stated I want to know what I will need before the dealer starts trying to sell me what's in stock and needs to move. I am just looking for the best input I can find and you guys are the ones with the experience.

I want to try to find a close Dealer first but I want to be able to show him what the rest of the world is paying also. I he won't deal then I move on. That's part of my shopping process to avoid paying too much. I wish that money was not a factor but we are already spending a fortune maintaining our current home while building another.

Thank You,

Egon · Jun 13, 2004

Did you get a good start on some loose gravel before the pavement Bird. Ice to dry pavement up north here makes it much easier.

Egon

Bird · Jun 13, 2004

( Did you get a good start on some loose gravel before the pavement Bird )

Nope, Egon, it was a cold (but clear and dry) winter night, car parked in a "head in" parking space that was also headed downhill, the car was cold natured, took awhile to warm up, and I was a dumb 16 year old kid. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif I started the car, started to back up, and killed the engine, tried again with the same result, so when I started it the third time, I gunned the engine, popped the clutch, snapped the axle, got out and walked home. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif And the next day my Dad told me how to remove and replace a broken axle and I got one at a salvage yard and did that. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Egon · Jun 13, 2004

Bird:

I usually lose more than I win.

Egon /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

SteveH_CT · Jun 13, 2004

Dave please... Don't apologize... Your posts are obviously well written and well thought out. You didn't start anything that hasn't happened just about every time someone posts a general brand question lately.

It sounds like you're looking at some good tractors, and you've certainly begun to narrow down the field. To directly answer your Deere question about model replacement, Yes - the 20 series is the update and replacement to the 10 series. The updates for the mid and small chassis will follow the new large chassis tractors. You can find tons of info down in the Deere forum about the new models in the 20 series.

I don't know much about the Kubota's other than the 2 models I looked at - they are great tractors though. I know even less about NH. In my area they were just too pricey compared to JD and Bota.

Please keep us posted as to how the search goes. It sounds like a unique business you're in... /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

And don't worry about the squabbling - just consider it like going to a family picnic where everyone either likes the Red Sox or the Yankees! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Some things people will never agree on, and here brand loyalty is one of them. We just all generally love our tractors.

Take Care,

Bob_Skurka · Jun 13, 2004

FLDave, the fights between brands happen all the time. Cowboydoc may have started this fight (unintentionally) but he is actually a good guy, but he bleeds green and often his posts show his bias toward the brand he trusts and knows to be a good brand. The reality is all the major brands are good brands, most of the minor brands suffer from a small dealer network, but a smaller network does not mean support will be bad, nor does it mean parts will be hard to get. Kioti is a good example of a minor brand that seems to be building a lot of momentum. Some other brands are probably very spotty for parts, service, and several of the things that Cowboydoc posts about. Also understand that doc earns a living with his tractors and most of us are hobby users on the weekends so he does have a different perspective of what is reasonable and what reliability is required. That said, I often disagree with him because his perspective is different than mine and his tractors are used differently than mine, and because I believe he puts the color of the machine over the task to be accomplished in some instances. Regardless, his opinion is very valid and his experience is worthy of serious consideration.

To20Chris · Jun 13, 2004

Nah, you didn't start anything! That everyone seems to like the brand of tractor they bought so much is a good sign. The CUT segment is growing rapidly and has a lot of competition. The companies involved are working hard to get and maintatin market share, which means good things for consumers. Inexpensive they aren't, but they sure work well! Whatever you end up choosing will soon become an indispensable tool, and it is inevitable that you'll get a little attached to it.

Degree · Jun 13, 2004

I think you should look for your closest tractor dealer so if something breaks or needs servicing, you dont have to haul it so far or you dont have to wait a few days more than a closer dealer. I can find you a Kubota dealer if youd like, just give me a zip code or city. Kubota is probably the best tractor money can buy but thats just me.

Mark4510 · Jun 14, 2004

FLDave. Dont be sorry. Most of this is ongoing spirited debate.
I dont love the fact that my tractor is green but I do love having it. It has been such a great thing to have and am on it many times every week for different needs. It sounds like you are going through the same thing I have. I bought a 2002 Dodge for the cummins. What sold me was the durability, performance, over all fit and finish of the truck and the dealer support. We use it to haul horses and, in my mind, it was the best. Now to tractors....
I went through the same experience you are. I dont have anything as demanding as Cowboys operation but I didnt feel like I could afford to make a mistake when making the tractor decision. I ended up with the 4510 for the following reasons:
1. Dealer, Dealer, Dealer - I spoke with many dealers and, as a group, the JD's were the most helpful. I have had experience with them with my lawn tractor and the service has always been fantastic. I went with a different JD dealer for the 4510 and the pre sales support was great. I told my dealer what I wanted to do and he put a package together for me that made me wince at the cost. Now that I have had the machine I can say that he was correct about everything even the fact that I should get Top N Tilt. The only thing he missed was the toothbar. I do, however, admit that the local Kioti guy was better on the pre sales part though.
2. After sales support - I cannot say enough about the support I have had from any JD dealer. I have taken my lawn tractor in to more than one JD dealer and I ALWAYS get more than I expected. When I bought the 4510 I notice it was missing the orange triangular thing (why cant I think of what that is called?) and called the dealer. I told him I had the bracket but no reflector. He was surprised but overnighted one to me. We both had a good laugh when I had to call him back and tell him it was there but was just covered up with plastic.
3. Value - I think I would have loved having any tractor from your list as well as many others. I think I got the best value by spending more upfront. Being as ignorant as I am about things like this, I have gotten more "over the phone education" from JD dealers about not only my tractor but how to use one, what is safe, how to care for mine and implements that will meet my needs.

So....my 2 cents, from my experience, is, dollar for dollar, there are other tractors that are as good. Having said that, dollar for dollar, I got the best SOLUTION for my needs with JD.

Best of luck....have fun.....be safe...and post pics of whatever fills your needs the best.
Mark

Charlie_in_TX · Jun 14, 2004

I too recomend looking at all manufactures. I would not buy a tractor if there wasn't a good local dealer to support it.

Now tractor specs. As a minimum, I would say
4x4
FEL
Shuttle (prefer a HST but shuttle as min)
30hp PTO

Many manufactures sell a tractor that meet these requirements. I will give you some details about Mahindra since that is what I bought. As you mentioned Mahindra made some of the IH for many years. They still sell modern vertions of them are there xx00 series units. TYM make the xx10 series tractors. They are heavy for the amount of HP. Thats good for dirt work. It may be a hinderence for mowing. The xx15 are made by Mitsubitsi. I believe they only go up to 30hp engines so a little small for you.