Buying Advice Help cure ignorance....mine

[NorthPole]

I'm in the market for my first small tractor (35-45 HP, 4WD) to do some tree/ground clearing on the 4 acres around my house. While I have operated a tractor (a friend's CAT 410) for a couple of days, I'm by no means an "old hand". We have the following dealers in town: Kubota, John Deere and Case. I visited Kubota and JD today, Case was closed. If a Kubota, I'm leaning toward the L3800 or maybe the L4600/MX4700 (definately on the large side of what I think I need). They had a nice L3940, but I don't think the approximately $10K for cab and fancy stuff is where I want to go.

John Deere had absolute no tractors in the showroom. They have a 4005 with manual trans in their other store (350 miles south). Look at the data, it doesn't seem like a bad machine at all. I will most likely be using this in a way that will require a lot of back-forth. How big an annoyance is the "manual" transmission? The Deere dealer was much more personable and knowldgeabe than the Kubota dealer. Although the Deere guy said that all the manufacturer's machines are pretty close, it's the attachemetns you need to look at. He specifically mentioned the capacity of the FEL that the Kubota's maybe a little weak. Humm. Looking at the spec sheet the JD 4005 with the 300CX FEL can lift 1256 lbs at full height. While the Kubota L3800 will 1490 lbs, the L4600 will do 1684 lbs and the MX4700 is rated at 1874 lbs. He did mention that JD is now making the dealers pay for shippment to Alaska which is drive up the price about $1,500. This would not apply to the tractor in stock. Kubota makes you pay the freight and has assembly charges.

I have no brand loyalites. Although I will say I really don't want to buy a Chineese product. Given how much / hard I'll use this, it will be my one and only tractor purchase, so I want to get it right. Any thoughts out there about yanmar 4-clynder v. Kubota 3-clynder (4 for hte MX4700) engines? Is HST a "must have" or just really nice?

Thanks in advance,

John

 

[creekbend]

When I bought my tractor almost two years ago, this is what I did. I checked with all the tractor owners in my area, and got their opinions. I drove several tractors at the dealers in my area. I was in no hurry, because this would probably be my last tractor that I bought in this Life. In the end, I bought the tractor that offered the accessories that I wanted, and at the Dealership that provided the best service and a Parts Dept. to match. I also chose the tractor with sufficient HP that served my current needs and possibly for future endeavors. BTW, I chose a tractor with 4 cylinders. Best wishes.

 

[mikehaugen]

Both companies seem to offer pretty good, comparable machines. I am a little partial to JD only because that is what I have and am familiar with the dealer and am confident with the parts availability as I have an older tractor. From what I have heard, Kubota is pretty good as well for parts, but I don't know first hand so I feel comfortable with Deere. It seems that Kubota gives you more dollar for dollar though, but for some reason I get more of a "stuck-up" kinda feeling from the couple different Kubota dealers I have talked to... I feel like I am at a Bentley dealer or something.

 

[mikehaugen]

I would also add, that when comparing loader lift capacities, you are comparing the same thing. Sometimes they rate it at at the pin, and sometimes a certain distance away. Obviously there is a big difference between being able to lift 1500 lbs at the pin and 1500 lbs 18" in front of the pin.

 

[joshuabardwell]

HST vs. gear is a religious argument. There are strong proponents on both sides. Here are some threads on that topic.

 

[joshuabardwell]

I also have to say I don't understand the Deere dealer's "look at the implements" claim. There's no reason to buy implements from the dealer, and frankly, you can probably get much better deals buying used from other farmers, at auction, off Craigslist, etc... Does Kubota make a better implement than Deere? Who cares, because you're buying a Land Pride or a Woods. It's seldom the case that tractor-branded implements are EITHER the best OR the cheapest. The only reason I would buy my implements from my tractor dealer would be if I needed to roll them into the tractor's financing.

 

[mjncad]

Welcome to TBN NorthPole.

First I see you're near Fairbanks, and although I've never been to Alaska, a friend of mine lived there for a time and told me how brutal the winters are. Besides tree and ground clearing, I'm going to assume that snow removal is another priority. With that in mind, I would get a cab. Also I have no idea how old you are; but I'm going to suggest you look at this as a real long term purchase. Get what you want on the machine including a factory cab to make your life easier as you get older. Most guys working in and around trees like open station tractors to minimize the chances of branches damaging a cab. To me, based on where you live, an open station tractor is a fair weather machine limited to your short summers; but I freely admit that I'm a weather wimp.

I've never been around a Case, so I can't comment on them. Deere and Kubota make good machines. I'm partial to Deere as that is what I own, and when I was shopping for my rig, the Kubota dealers near me were real dicks. Plus I don't like the Kubota treadle system. That is another subject like HST vs gear, R1 vs R4 tires, etc has been debated more than the budget deficit in Congress.

I like manual transmissions in my cars and trucks; but prefer HST for my tractors as loader work is the bulk of what I do. A HST makes precise tractor positioning easy. That sucks that the Deere dealer has no selection for you to look at as I think you should sit on all three brands and test drive them around the lot.

As for the implement comment made by the dealer. Implement quality varies from manufacturer to manufacturer; but a CAT 1 implement fits a CAT 1 hitch regardless of manufacturer.

Since you are way west of the Mississippi River, and way far north of most everyone else; don't be surprised to find used equipment is scarce, and when it does come on the market, it's probably beat to crap. Check Used Farm & Agricultural Equipment - John Deere MachineFinder and www.tractorhouse.com to get an idea of the used market for your area.

I'll close my verbose post by suggesting you look up posts by your fellow Alaskan AKFISH as he has a Deere, and 4SHORTS out of Newfoundland who has a Kubota. Both of these members are very knowledgeable.

 

[big bubba]

I'm in the market for my first small tractor (35-45 HP, 4WD) to do some tree/ground clearing on the 4 acres around my house. While I have operated a tractor (a friend's CAT 410) for a couple of days, I'm by no means an "old hand". We have the following dealers in town: Kubota, John Deere and Case. I visited Kubota and JD today, Case was closed. If a Kubota, I'm leaning toward the L3800 or maybe the L4600/MX4700 (definately on the large side of what I think I need). They had a nice L3940, but I don't think the approximately $10K for cab and fancy stuff is where I want to go.

John Deere had absolute no tractors in the showroom. They have a 4005 with manual trans in their other store (350 miles south). Look at the data, it doesn't seem like a bad machine at all. I will most likely be using this in a way that will require a lot of back-forth. How big an annoyance is the "manual" transmission? The Deere dealer was much more personable and knowldgeabe than the Kubota dealer. Although the Deere guy said that all the manufacturer's machines are pretty close, it's the attachemetns you need to look at. He specifically mentioned the capacity of the FEL that the Kubota's maybe a little weak. Humm. Looking at the spec sheet the JD 4005 with the 300CX FEL can lift 1256 lbs at full height. While the Kubota L3800 will 1490 lbs, the L4600 will do 1684 lbs and the MX4700 is rated at 1874 lbs. He did mention that JD is now making the dealers pay for shippment to Alaska which is drive up the price about $1,500. This would not apply to the tractor in stock. Kubota makes you pay the freight and has assembly charges.

I have no brand loyalites. Although I will say I really don't want to buy a Chineese product. Given how much / hard I'll use this, it will be my one and only tractor purchase, so I want to get it right. Any thoughts out there about yanmar 4-clynder v. Kubota 3-clynder (4 for hte MX4700) engines? Is HST a "must have" or just really nice?

Thanks in advance,


looks as if you're doing a great job in research. at this point it may come down to quality of dealership service....but....you might also take a closer look @ your initial reasons for tractor purchase: "clearing" land with a 40hp tractor could be counter productive and better done by either renting or hiring the right equip for the job then looking at your realistic tractor needs for the future (which may well be in the 40hp range) trying to remove even small saplings & stumps may very time consuming and over the head of an already lightweight kubota that you're looking at. good luck

 

[texasjohn]

personal bias

cab allows work in bad weather...and you WILL be out in bad weather.

HST shines in safety for precise operation and back/forth

both reduce fatigue, thus increase safety.

best wishes

 

[Egon]

If you get into removing trees a backhoe would be nice. Cab is also nice for cold/hot weather.

Consider the hydrostatic transmission.

Try and drive some different tractors to get an idea of ergonomics. (I have heard one fellow comment on the placing of a shift lever as very relevant to his choice)

 

[k0ua]

personal bias

cab allows work in bad weather...and you WILL be out in bad weather.

HST shines in safety for precise operation and back/forth

both reduce fatigue, thus increase safety.

best wishes

I would agree with this, Also that Grand L you discounted as being "fancy" also has more weight which will help a lot in brush clearing duties.. My Kioti does not have a cab, but I am in a much different climate than you. My Kioti has over 1000 lbs more weight than a 38 horspower L3800 Kubota which equates to more push and less wheel spin. As for hydrostat, well, I am biased heavily in favor of the hydro, especially for loader work. The Grand L 3940 is an excellent tractor and those "fancy smancy" features that it has are worth every penny when you start to use the tractor. They are not "frills" they are useful features that will get more work done in a given amount of time. The Hydrostat (HST+)on the Grand L's are a step up in useability as compared to other brands. Don't get me wrong I love my Kioti, with its industry standard Hydrostat but the HST+ of the Kubota does offer features I wish I had. We are not saying you cant get the job done with something less, and that includes a standard transmission and a lighter tractor, because you can, it is just a matter of how fast and how much operator fatigue you want to have. Good luck in your choices.

James K0UA

 

[murphy1244]

:welcome: To TBN, I think a Cab is #1 on the list. Hopefully AK Fisk chimes in, he lives up in the great north too.

 

[JerryK]

I'd get the HST..... and the cab.... I've seen those skeeters/black flies up there.... [ maybe a double cab with armor plating ]

 

[SanDucerro]

HST and CAB. You'll hate yourself down the road if you don't get the CAB.

As for HST... I have both trans types in my two tractors. The M7040 is the more powerful of the two tractors, and its FEL can lift significantly more, but it's a "manual" trans (even though it's a hydro shuttle). When doing FEL work I prefer to use the smaller L3130 with HST - it's SO much easier to operate. Here's why - when you take your foot off the "go pedal" on an HST tractor the machine STOPS. It doesn't creep forward, it doesn't rock back, it STOPS. It STOPS exactly where you took your foot off the power pedal. This assumes - of course - that you are on somewhat level ground, but even if you're not the tractor doesn't move but a fraction when you let off the juice. When using a FEL this "feature" is fantastic. It is so much easier to attack a stump, load the bucket with dirt, pick up pallets with forks, or anything else you can think of to do with a FEL when you have HST.

On a manual trans tractor - when you let off the juice - you keep going forward (or backward as the case may be) until you hit the brakes (which aren't that great to begin with). If you're just grabbing a bucket of dirt from a pile the manual trans isn't much of an issue. BUT - If you're not careful you can easily roll into a hole you're digging with the FEL or bump the back of the truck you're loading/unloading.

As for the CAB - ain't no way I'd consider a tractor in Alaska that didn't have a CAB to keep me warm... The money you save on payments by not buying a CAB wouldn't be worth the pain you'll feel as you "try" to operate an open tractor in the cold - especially in Alaska.

Best of luck in your purchase - and welcome to the forum.

 

[kiotiken]

I would agree with this, Also that Grand L you discounted as being "fancy" also has more weight which will help a lot in brush clearing duties.. My Kioti does not have a cab, but I am in a much different climate than you. My Kioti has over 1000 lbs more weight than a 38 horspower L3800 Kubota which equates to more push and less wheel spin. As for hydrostat, well, I am biased heavily in favor of the hydro, especially for loader work. The Grand L 3940 is an excellent tractor and those "fancy smancy" features that it has are worth every penny when you start to use the tractor. They are not "frills" they are useful features that will get more work done in a given amount of time. The Hydrostat (HST+)on the Grand L's are a step up in useability as compared to other brands. Don't get me wrong I love my Kioti, with its industry standard Hydrostat but the HST+ of the Kubota does offer features I wish I had. We are not saying you cant get the job done with something less, and that includes a standard transmission and a lighter tractor, because you can, it is just a matter of how fast and how much operator fatigue you want to have. Good luck in your choices.

James K0UA

Exactly what James said. All the tractors you're looking at are the economy or "standard" models and they are all very light. You need to look at tractors that will meet your requirements for the type of work you'll be doing and then figure out the pricing. Kubota Grand L tractors are arguably the nicest in their size range with HST+ being a huge plus, as James said. They have the weight and the strength that you're looking for.

Do you have a Kioti, Bobcat, Landini or McCormick dealer within reasonable distance. These are all Kioti tractors. Starting at 40hp, they are all very compatible with with Grand L models of similar HP. The Kioti versions have FEL lift cap. of 2700lbs to full height and 4000lbs breakout, significantly higher than the standard L line and slightly higher than even the Grand L line.

The other one to look at is LS. It is a division of LG and had been making tractors for New Holland and Landini (maybe others?) for years until recently. They are also a heavy strong tractor.

I'd be looking at Kioti DK40 or DK45 (Bobcat CT440/45, McCormick X10.40, Landini ??), Kubota L4240, JD 4120, LS ?? or possibly a Mahindra.

 

[vtsnowedin]

If I had to load fragile cargo onto somebody else's truck several times a week I'd want an HST tranny for the same reasons others have posted above but for tree and farm work I don't have a problem with a gear shift and clutch setup. Mine shuttles from 2nd to reverse in all three ranges and the 4000 lbs of lift gets the job done. Along with the cab make sure you have a block heater for cold winter starts. Working the trees in AK you'll be looking like this.

 

[TripleR]

Man, no way I can improve on the advice given by Kiotiken, SanDucerro, James KOUA, TexasJohn and other knowledgeable posters.

I also run HST, HST+ and hydraulic shuttle shift and for the new owner would recommend an HST/HST+ (see threads posted by joshbardwell), nothing wrong with gear and many like them, but...

Mjncad makes an excellent point, I am 65 and buy long term, I have open station tractors I can no longer use and have had to turn them over to my brothers, cabs are now a must for me. We have tractors made in the 50's, 60's and 80's still working; think long term.

As to brand, I could be happy on Kioti, John Deere, Kubota, Case etc., look for a good dealer and as mentioned compare apples to apples as there is a dizzying array of models and I honestly have to look many of them up to compare.

Good luck.

 

[nybirdman]

I'll vote for the L3940 HSTC,buy the right one the first time,it will save you money and aggravation.The HST+ is a great feature.

 

[kiotiken]

I'll vote for the L3940 HSTC,buy the right one the first time,it will save you money and aggravation.The HST+ is a great feature.

There's a big jump between the L3940 and the L4240 for FEL cap. You're going to want that lift for what you're doing, I wouldn't go below the L4240.

 

[PMA]

Check dealers. All the tractors mentioned are good but the dealership makes these tractors better or worse. A sorry dealership can cause a lot of headaches if you do have problems. I have a John Deere open tractor. Been a very good tractor but the dealership that I bought it from is sorry. Had a minor problem and ended up costing me over $1000 for a simple problem with the tractor having around 250 hours on it. When I purchased my cab tractor [CI] I have had great service from them. So dealership is prolly more important than the equipment being purchased.

Sent from my iPhone using TractorByNet