I have a CK25 stick with about 180 hours on it and is now out of warrantee. No probelms up until a few days ago. Won't start. Battery is good and turns over but won't fire. Temerature was around 60 today so I think it should start even if glow plugs are not working. It looks like no fuel to the injectors. No smoke from the exhaust at all, white or black. I suspect the fuel shut off soleniod. I'm not sure where it is so I found an electrical connector on the injector pump and disconnected it. I get no continuity across the pins on what I think is the solenoid and I think it should have a resistance of maybe 10 - 20 ohms. It is on the side of the pump with the connector facing downward. Does anyone have a diagram or photo of the location of the solenoid? Any other ideas on what could be wrong would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for any help.
Help. CK25 won't start
- Thread starter lexgs
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ERE
Silver Member
Mine is on the front of the injector pump. I don,t know the resistance, but would guess beeween 10-20 ohms. The number isnt important so long as it isn't open. i.e. very high resistance.
Well hope you get her going before long,but can't help none.
This post did remind me to get my dealer to order me one of those shop manuals or what ever they are called,[book that tells you things like this,etc],heard on here that it was worth the money
This post did remind me to get my dealer to order me one of those shop manuals or what ever they are called,[book that tells you things like this,etc],heard on here that it was worth the money
o2batsea
Platinum Member
Kioti shop manual is like reading a badly translated Chinese restaurant menu. No offense, but they really need to hire a native speaker to proofread the text. It's a little difficult to understand here and there.
Steve_Miller
Veteran Member
The solenoid sticks sometimes. Just pull the plunger all the way out (I think), the spring should be aiding in this way. The solenoid is (I think) controlled by a timer so that when the key is turned off the solenoid energizes for a few seconds to cut off the fuel supply then de-energizes and the spring should open the fuel supply again. Sometimes the spring does not completely open the valve and there is not enough fuel to start. Hope this helps.
Steve
Steve
Hi Steve,
Worked on it for a few hours today and verified that the fuel pump works and fuel is flowing through the filter to the injector pump. So I am still thinking it has something to do with the shut off solenoid. I think the solenoid is pulling in because I hear a loud click when the key is turned on to the run position. Do you have any more information on how the solenoid works. I don't understand why there are two wires going to the connector, one large gauge and the other small. I verified that there is 12v on the larger of the two wires when you turn the key on and it makes the circuit to ground through the case of the solenoid. So what is the extra wire in the connector for? Any ideas.
Fred
Worked on it for a few hours today and verified that the fuel pump works and fuel is flowing through the filter to the injector pump. So I am still thinking it has something to do with the shut off solenoid. I think the solenoid is pulling in because I hear a loud click when the key is turned on to the run position. Do you have any more information on how the solenoid works. I don't understand why there are two wires going to the connector, one large gauge and the other small. I verified that there is 12v on the larger of the two wires when you turn the key on and it makes the circuit to ground through the case of the solenoid. So what is the extra wire in the connector for? Any ideas.
Fred
Batsea,Well,they must be two versions of these books than my owners operator manual is very good I think. And have heard from several on here that the shop manual is very good also,since my operators book is good,will go with what they have said.
Maybe your manual is old ??
Maybe your manual is old ??
ERE
Silver Member
According to the wiring diagram in the manual, the solenoid is operated by a timer circuit. I'm good at things electrical, but not electronic circuits so I can't help with the control logic in the circuit.
My shop manual is pretty good - doesn't have everything I would like, but what manual does.
I once had a Chinese tractor that came with a manual that was, literally, not readable. It did have good diagrams, however, which made it somewhat useful.
My shop manual is pretty good - doesn't have everything I would like, but what manual does.
I once had a Chinese tractor that came with a manual that was, literally, not readable. It did have good diagrams, however, which made it somewhat useful.
I have been reading a lot of the other posts on this forum trying to figure out why my CK25 will not run. I picked up a few ideas and tried to troubleshoot but I am getting nowhere.
My fuel system is the newer solenoid on type without the manual kill switch. So when I turn on the key to run I hear the solenoid click on. I also removed the solenoid and verified that the plunger operates and pulls all the way in. I disconnected the fuel line at the filter outlet and when I crank the engine the fuel pulses out with some pressure when the engine is cranked. Based on this I think the fuel supply is good up to the injector pump. But still no fuel to the injectors and it won't fire up and run. Does anyone know if there are any other checks I should do. Is it possible there is still air in the injector pump? Can you bleed the air out of the pump?
My fuel system is the newer solenoid on type without the manual kill switch. So when I turn on the key to run I hear the solenoid click on. I also removed the solenoid and verified that the plunger operates and pulls all the way in. I disconnected the fuel line at the filter outlet and when I crank the engine the fuel pulses out with some pressure when the engine is cranked. Based on this I think the fuel supply is good up to the injector pump. But still no fuel to the injectors and it won't fire up and run. Does anyone know if there are any other checks I should do. Is it possible there is still air in the injector pump? Can you bleed the air out of the pump?
Gittyup
Elite Member
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- Oct 4, 2007
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- Kioti CK25 Shuttle Shift, loaded tires, JD X739
On solenoids there is a primary voltage on the coil. When applied, solenoid closes the relay, valve, or whatever it is controlling. So, when the key is on the solenoid should have power on the coil. If you have power on the solenoid coil with the key on, but no fuel to the injector, then the solenoid is mostly likely bad. This is a farily common part to fail.
Willl
Elite Member
Early solenoids had a single coil circuit, took a few amps to 'pull' and continued to use the same coil circuit to hold (also same amps).
Later solenoids use 2 coil circuits. One to pull (high amp), the other (lower amp) to hold.
Pulling requires more power than holding.
Willl
Elite Member
Loosen fuel supply at injector pump and crank engine till good flow and no air. Retighten fitting.
Crack injector lines loose at injectors approx 1 turn.
Again crank engine till fuel appears at loosened caps. Retighten injector lines.
Should be it.
Steve_Miller
Veteran Member
Fred,
If you flip the lever on top of the solenoid there should be little resistance with the key off, when you turn the key on there should be about twice as much resistance if the solenoid is energized. My CK30 when running will stop if I manually flip this lever, (that fan blade is some close to the fingers with the engine running) maybe try tapping on the solenoid with the key on if you think the plunger may not be hauling in. My previous post was my experience with my CK20, the 30 if a different set up now that I actually looked at it. Sorry.
Steve
If you flip the lever on top of the solenoid there should be little resistance with the key off, when you turn the key on there should be about twice as much resistance if the solenoid is energized. My CK30 when running will stop if I manually flip this lever, (that fan blade is some close to the fingers with the engine running) maybe try tapping on the solenoid with the key on if you think the plunger may not be hauling in. My previous post was my experience with my CK20, the 30 if a different set up now that I actually looked at it. Sorry.
Steve
After some extensive testing of the solenoid I think it is functioning. Right now I think the problem may be air in the injector lines. Probably caused when I changed the filter and then disconnected the line to the injector pump to see if I had good fuel flow. I read several other threads about problems caused by getting air in the system when you run the tank dry.
Since air is easily compressible, the injector pump can not build enough pressure to pop the injectors open. So the air will stay trapped in the line forever until you bleed it out by cracking a connection. The next chance I get to work on this I will try Willl's method to bleed everything and hope this does it. I will post again to let you know what happens.
Since air is easily compressible, the injector pump can not build enough pressure to pop the injectors open. So the air will stay trapped in the line forever until you bleed it out by cracking a connection. The next chance I get to work on this I will try Willl's method to bleed everything and hope this does it. I will post again to let you know what happens.
Willl
Elite Member
Hit the nail on the head Legs.
MichiganIron
Silver Member, Advertiser
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Remove the cover on the side of the case under the injector pump. With the cover off, you can look up under the injector pump and see the pin of the injector rack. Try to move the injector rack with your finger or the end of a screw driver,
If you hear the loud click when the key is turned to acc., the pull coil is working properly. It sounds like you have a stuck injector rack. You will be able to tell when you remove the side cover of the rack case and locate the rack pin and try to move it. We have seen a few occasions where the rack siezed on the injector pump. You have all the symptoms of a stuck rack. You may be able to free it up, but chances are you should get with your dealer and let them know.
Hope this helps.
If you hear the loud click when the key is turned to acc., the pull coil is working properly. It sounds like you have a stuck injector rack. You will be able to tell when you remove the side cover of the rack case and locate the rack pin and try to move it. We have seen a few occasions where the rack siezed on the injector pump. You have all the symptoms of a stuck rack. You may be able to free it up, but chances are you should get with your dealer and let them know.
Hope this helps.
Today I tried to bleed the injector lines so I cracked the nuts at the injectors and turned it over for a while. Nothing. Then I decided to remove the side cover from the pump and look for this thing called the rack. Toward the back there is a slot with a small stud sticking out that looks like it is moved back and forth by a spring loaded lever attached to the throttle. So I tried to slide the rack toward the front of the engine which I think is the way to open it up and it would not budge. So if I am trying to move the right part then it is frozen in place. See picture which was taken sideways. It is the round thing that can be seen through the slot. So am I correct that this should slide freely?
If it is frozen then what are my options. If I pull the pump unit out is there a chance I can disassemble the rack valve and free it up or does this mean I need a new injector pump.
If it is frozen then what are my options. If I pull the pump unit out is there a chance I can disassemble the rack valve and free it up or does this mean I need a new injector pump.
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MichiganIron
Silver Member, Advertiser
- Joined
- May 12, 2008
- Messages
- 835
- Location
- Central Michigan
- Tractor
- Full line of KIOTI Tractors, BEFCO and Worksaver Implements
The "post" you see is the fuel rack. It slides back and forth between the shutoff solenoid and the idle return spring opposite the solenoid. If you can't move it, the rack is probably frozen. You may be able to free it up, but freezing indicates a gear tooth is bad on the rack. The fuel rack probably failed. The injection pump should be changed.
Contact your dealer and let them know what happened.
Contact your dealer and let them know what happened.
It looks like it's time to call the dealer. Reading another thread about the "DK45 won't start" it mentioned that the injector pump is covered under an emmisions warantee for 5 years or 3000 hours. I'll have my dealer contact Kioti and see if they will cover it. Thanks to everyone who posted. I really appreciate all the help. I will let eveyone know how the pump warrantee goes since I think other owners may run in to the same problem and it seems like there are only a few who know about Kioti's unpublished emmisions warrantee.
