Hello everyone and a HST vs SYNCHRO tranny question!

[blueluke]

Hello everyone, new member and first post here!

Allow me to introduce myself.

I am one of those french speaking Canadian from Qu饕ec, so you will find at times that my writing may be a bit strange, English not being my primary language, and I use the British/Canadian orthography!
Here are a few facts about me:
- I am not into hockey and do not listen to any sport, I don't even listen to TV anymore!
- I am very much into beer! :lickingExcept American beer! I know I know! these are fighting words, but most Canadians will not tell you that they don't like American beer :laughing: )
- I will turn 60 this summer
- I plan to build a house on the wooden lot I bought in 1999 (about 10 acres, 417,000 sq f to be exact) and gradually retire
- I plan to get a tractor this summer in the 30-35hp class, with FEL, rear snowblower, box scrapper and wood chipper
- I never owned nor driven a tractor in my life, but always drove geared cars and my Sierra 1500 is a 5 speed gears
- I am a musician for 45years and an industrial electronic tech for 25 years
- I have 2 grandsons, Xavier 6, Olivier 4 and one grandaughter Ga麝le, 3. What a bundle of joy these three!

That said, the lot I have is a forest that was clear cut in the early 30's, and burned by a forest fire in the mid fifties, so what I have right now is a mixture of paper birch, maple, spruce and cedar. The cedars are sick, the birches are at the end of their cycle, the maples are ... anything, just sad affairs that alas will be turned into heating wood.
The spruce are fair, but right now I can not reach them as I have to open a path to get to them. Many trees are toppled. My plans is to clean, and plant new trees, patch by patch, opening paths and work the forest using the Finish method of sustainable forestry and stewardship. By the way, doing this while keeping a good relationship with the actual tennants, deers, rabbits, racoon, the usual suspects!

So by now you can see what will be the use of my tractor!


There are plenty of good dealers of almost every brands within a reasonable distance, Deere, NH, Kubota, Massey, etc, from here so this is not an issue.
I have no brand loyalty and this will be my first and only tractor I will buy.

I have nailed down my choice to a few models after a lot of lurking here on TBN and visits to dealers.

I had in mind getting either a Kioti CK35hst or a Massey-Ferguson 1532 with hst. While visiting a Kioti dealers, I found one rep who has been into forestry most of his life with his dad and he was adamant for forestry works that I get a shuttle tranny, and he showed me the Kioti DS3510. If there was a little tractor that could, this would be it! Quite a machine for the price asked, but one thing I find annoying is getting in / out of it!. Once seated, the controls ergonomics is not great but OK with me. This looks like a rugged machine, on paper and in person.
Another dealer here turns these tractors into very capable forestry machines, check here: Ensemble forestier | Les distributions Payeur
Very interesting, I have to see this.

Then I went to a Kubota dealer to look at the LT3800DT (synchro) The rep was gently bashing the kioti but did not go too far, in fact he was not bashing, he was more like trying to demonstrate his product was better, which is fair to me! The one thing with the Kubo is that it is much easier to ingress and egress the platform, and the ergonomics is much better!

So my question: HST or SYNCHRO for me? (yes, I realise this subject has seen 287 threads and counting!) The argument for the Synchro came from a rep who has done a lot of work in forestry, but not to the small scale that I intend to do. Still, I value his inputs very much.
The recomandation for a HST came from the Massey dealer who had also good arguments for it, the net result is that I am more confused than before!!

Whew! that was long! :dance1:

Luc

 

[jenkinsph]

Welcome to TBN blueluke,

It should be evident that all salesmen will want to sell their tractors. Sounds like you are going to spend an awful lot of time manuevering through the woods, I would choose a hydrostatic tranny for that. I will say that you can get the job done with any of the transmissions available but being able to manuever easily is king when you are trying to get around in the trees.
I personally prefer the two forward/reverse pedals on the right and individual left and right steering brakes on the left side. Others seem to be very satisfied with the Kubota treadle pedal too. You should try all of them out and try manuevering in close quarters to come to your own conclusion.

 

[Grandad4]

Luc, welcome! You have written a very good introduction.

The recommendation to get a shuttle transmission may relate to ground clearance and the need to protect the underside of the tractor in the forest. Gear drive tractors often have less exposed parts that can get damaged by rocks, limbs and stumps; HST drives are, of course, hydraulically driven and typically have lines, filters, fixtures and various other parts right beneath the floorboard and exposed.

HST tractors are very convenient and easy to operate, but it could be that a shuttle setup would work just as well for you. Since you plan to do some extensive tree clearing work, I would suggest that you plan to add a skid plate, regardless of which kind of drive system you choose.

Another suggestion would be to consider a logging winch for the back of the tractor. The winch allows you to extend a cable 100-200 feet and pull a log to the tractor so you do not have to get the tractor off the trail. I have found our logging winch to be very useful and makes handling logs safer, although it is an expensive attachment.

The brands of tractors you have mentioned are all very good. We have had good luck with our Kubota equipment but I would be just as pleased with the other makes if I owned one. You should look at all of them and find one that has a good dealer and the tractor feels right to you. I'm sure others will have more suggestions.

 

[Carl_NH]

Hello Luc and welcome to TBN,

I know Laval and have customers there in electronics business, and by the way our beer is pretty darn good these days, and a lot less $$ than your Canadian @ $9-10 per six pack! I used to come to Montreal in the 80's and loved the Bradour ale around 7% content... But more on your tractor decisions.

I think any of the brands are going to be good, but some items I would suggest are;

Get a QA bucket on your FEL, and a Grapple, and this will get you front Hyd outlets too, which can power other tools.

Lift height of the FEL - if you plan to load trucks with logs, or dirt, you need a decent lift weight and height to clear the sides of the trucks - I think most lift 8' or so in 35-40HP range?

Backhoe - with a new house and tree stump removal, and planting I think you would want a BH.. this is also a good counter weight to the FEL

HP - I think 35-40HP is a good size, and HST in the woods is great, and R4 tires, if you driving around and over stumps and rocks.

Last - an inexpensive used "little tractor" say 15-20 HP to tow a simple log trailer - would a less expensive option than the rig from Ensemble Forestier. This little tractor could do mowing and maintenance too - just a consideration.

On the HST you can just move around a lot easier and quickly when in tight spots, and its just so much easier to use in the long haul - you wont regret it. I had gear tractors growing up and my first two small tractors - Mitsubishi and Kubota L185 were gear, and now with HST its so much easier.

Good luck and enjoy the tractor buying process.

 

[GManBart]

The HST will make it much easier to move logs/trees when you're clearing them. I've been working on a similar project lately, and I can't imagine doing it without the HST.

Kioti has an excellent FEL for the size tractor, and price point. I wouldn't go any smaller than the CK35HST you looked at, and if you can afford to step up to the DK size, I think you'll find the added capability is very useful.

 

[jenkinsph]

Carl makes some good points too about a backhoe and you might want to consider a good new or used tlb with skid plate included. Just me but if I was buying a machine to use in the woods for a few years I would go slightly used as it will likely get some dings and scratches regardless.

Also think grandad's suggestion of a logging winch is a good idea.

 

[J F]

No help for ya Luc, but great first post. :laughing:

 

[TripleR]

Welcome to TBN and as mentioned great first post. I am afraid I won't be much help, the reason there are so many threads is because in most cases there is no real "best" transmission. I operated an HST as well as hydraulic shuttle shift and before that used a synchro shuttle for years. When possible, I will use the HST as it is easier foe me to use, but the hydraulic shuttle is pretty nice too with the synchro being a little more difficult. Using a foot clutch all day simply wears me out and I have better, more precise control with the HST. The older I get, the more I like "easy" as do my joints.

My 62 year old younger brother however just bought a synchro shift Kioti and really likes it, so there you go. The best advice I can give is to spend as much time as you can on the lot and maybe consider renting one for a weekend to get a baseline knowledge of how one feels after a couple of full days of work.

As to brand, get what feels right to you.

 

[Don87]

I personally like the HST. And I also like the brakes on the opposite side from the HST pedals. While an HST will come to almost a full stop when the 'go' pedal is released, when on a slope, the tractor will keep moving when you least want it to.

 

[Buckgnarly]

you are spot on with the problem of getting on and off the DS3510, it is the ONLY thing that I do not love about mine. you get used to it, but it is not a deal breaker for me. As for the trans, I think that's a personal preference. I have yet to run into any issue snowblowing, brushhogging, or FEL work with a gear trans as opposed to HST. I got my gear for simplicity, reliability, and to be honest all the vehicles I own are manual trans and will always be.