Hayloft is Crashing Down! Help!

[aczlan]

That should do the trick.

Aaron Z

 

[Treemonkey1000]

Simple and effective.. Nice work Levi.

 

[sdkubota]

The owner would have been better off hiring an engineer to properly design the beam required to carry the estimated loading. While the laminated beam looks pretty and is under the joists to properly support them, there are many joists transfering their weight to a beam that does not have that adequate carrying capacity in my estimation. I realize the original beam/support is still being used in addition to the laminated beam added. It probably will never collapse but pretty and whatafellerthinks is no way to design load bearing structures. Rant over...

 

[GPintheMitten]

The owner would have been better off hiring an engineer to properly design the beam required to carry the estimated loading. While the laminated beam looks pretty and is under the joists to properly support them, there are many joists transfering their weight to a beam that does not have that adequate carrying capacity in my estimation. I realize the original beam/support is still being used in addition to the laminated beam added. It probably will never collapse but pretty and whatafellerthinks is no way to design load bearing structures. Rant over...

No offense, but got any facts to back up your estimation? Like span tables for the LVL used? You might be right but without some data, you are just another feller with an opinion..

 

[sdkubota]

No offense, but got any facts to back up your estimation? Like span tables for the LVL used? You might be right but without some data, you are just another feller with an opinion..

No offense taken but I am an engineer and have had the misfortune of providing structural designing with wood. It just seems not near the capacity to me to carry that number of joists given the intended loading conditions. I would have to have all of the existing information, column spacing, etc. to actually go through the numbers. I am going off of gut instinct and past experiences. Didn't mean to disparage anyone but believe some things should be done correct especially when public safety is involved. I doubt it would have cost $500 in design fees and then you would have the facts instead of speculating which I have done.

 

[GPintheMitten]

That's fair enough. Your opinion is certainly more informed than mine. I actually agree about getting an engineer involved, or at least researching the span tables for LVL.

Had this been my barn, I would have consulted an engineer. Maybe Levi checked specs with his supplier but I don't know that.

 

[LD1]

It looks like a good repair IMO.

And for what its worth, maybe "Levi" DID consult span tables or an engineer and that is what was specified. We just dont know.

 

[schweizer]

Looks a lot better!

 

[1986]

Hi , I would get the and then hay out of the top then jack some 6 by 6 underneath the beams and then draw the building back together with chain and binds or rachet straps

If you could get something under the beams first would be a good idea to keep it from going farther.

 

[LD1]

Hi , I would get the and then hay out of the top then jack some 6 by 6 underneath the beams and then draw the building back together with chain and binds or rachet straps

If you could get something under the beams first would be a good idea to keep it from going farther.

Uh.....I think he already got it fixed:thumbsup:

 

[GPintheMitten]

Thanks, 1986, but the barn is fixed. Check.out the last couple of pages.

 

[piller]

I took a quick look at the fix and have a question/concern.

It appears that the new support beams are Microllam LVL beams. It was mentioned that they might be 2x16 glue lams. I did a quick search and found this Microllam guide:
http://www.woodbywy.com/literature/tj-9000.pdf

Page 18 of the guide shows a total floor load of 666 lbs per linear foot for a 12' span for the 1-3/4"x14" size beam (it does not provide values for a single 1-3/4" x 16" beam). From this I calculate the total load for one 12' x 12' floor section to be 2 (# of beams) x 12 ft x 666 lbs/ft = 15984 lbs.

The guide also states that an end bearing of 3.1" and an internal bearing of 7.7" is required for this load and this is my concern. From the pictures there is no end or internal support bearing, the beams are fastened to the posts with one or two bolts. Thoughts?

 

[dave1949]

I thought part of the fix would involve tying the vertical posts together, from side-to-side across the load bearing span. It looks like this is still relying on the joist hangers to take the tension across the span.

 

[GPintheMitten]

WRT, tying posts, the posts go up to the roof trusses, not just to the loft floor. And there are ties from the posts outbound to the exterior barn walls. So the posts are not just relying on joists hangers to tie them in place.

 

[GPintheMitten]

Wrt to load per LVL member. I don't know the rating, and frankly I'm not sure what size he used. Without getting a ladder out and measuring, they looked like 1 3/4 x 12" but maybe x 14". (Earlier Levi talked about doing 16", but I don't think he did that).

The span is 12' but there is a post for the stall doors at 8' to one post and 4' to the other.

There are 2 bolts at each posts except where there is a seam, which obviously has 4 bolts.

The hay load has been calculated to be 78 pounds per sq foot. If you take 80 pounds x 12 x 6 you get 5760 per 12' LVL. If you use 100 pounds per sq foot, it would be 7200 pounds of load per 12' LVL.

Next time I'm out there ill measure the depth of the LVLs.

More later.

 

[slowzuki]

You guys would soil your pants in my sisters barn. It was built somewhere around 1800 and has been moved 3 times. It has 30-40 feet deep of stacked square bales stored in the mow wall to wall. Hay is about 10-12 lb per cubic ft so about 40-50 psf. Not sure how the other posters got the huge psf's.

The floor is 1" boards on about 2-4 ft centres on 3x6 joists on 4 ft centres on hand hewn 8x8's on about 12 ft centers. The 8x8's span about 10 ft between posts. The 8x8's have about 6" of deflection in the span. Rest is similar. Been that way since at least 1985.

 

[LD1]

I overlooked it at first, but I would much have prefered to see some support under the LVL and not just relying on the sheer strength of the carriage bolts.

Either way, it is better than it was. And if the builder will stand behind his work, knowing that it is used for hay......

BTW, did he just do this by the seat of his pants? Or did he have an engineer design it that way?? Not that it matters now, but just curious.

 

[GPintheMitten]

I overlooked it at first, but I would much have prefered to see some support under the LVL and not just relying on the sheer strength of the carriage bolts.

Either way, it is better than it was. And if the builder will stand behind his work, knowing that it is used for hay......

BTW, did he just do this by the seat of his pants? Or did he have an engineer design it that way?? Not that it matters now, but just curious.

Well, I don't know the sheer strength of 2 half inch bolts. I guess you could put a 2x6 on the posts and add a few more bolts to spread the load. I don't know what Levi did on the way of research. But this is now between the owner and Levi.

Anybody know the load capacity of 2 half inch bolts?

 

[GPintheMitten]

Just Googled it. Shear strength on a grade 2 bolt is over 8000 pounds for one bolt. Grade 5 is over 14000 pounds. So it is well within the load.