Haying Equipment needs 101

[Robert_in_NY]

There are a lot of Kuhn rotarys around here on larger dairy farms. Up north of me you will find these types of beast, mostly the 2 row mergers but these 3 rows are just coming out up here. Miller Pro

It is a lot of fun to watch the large rotarys take care of a field in no time but then again, they do not fit everyones application or budget (Kuhn makes an expensive product). I keep hoping to get a Kuhn 6002. A fellow tried to start a custom haying business two years ago and he bought two JCB fasttracs, a new Kuhn 6002 and a new New holland BB940. Needless to say his equipment was all for sale last year but he would not take my offer for the Kuhn. He wanted to get what he paid for it.

 

[rambler]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Paul,

</font><font color="blueclass=small">(
A mower-conditioner will make windrows, and crimps the hay so it dries out quicker. For that amount of hay in a damp climate, you will want something with condioning rolls on it - not just a simple sickle bar or disc cutter. )</font>

I am still a little confused here, mower-conditioners and tedders, do they not make the same result? Nice windrows?
Perfectly cut grasses.

Thanks.
-Mike Z. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif )</font>

Mower conditioners cut the grass, crush it so the stems dry out quicker, & fling it into a windrow. (Very often this windrow needs to be turned over in a day to let the bottom dry out.)

A rake of one type or another will gather the hay & roll it into windrows. It can be used to flip the windrow over to let the bottom dry.

A tedder does the opposite of a rake. It spreads the hay out into a broad fluffy wide area, so that it is exposed to the sun & wind. It will need to be raked with a rake after this to make a windrow again.

Tedders are rather rare where I live. I think I've only seen one operate ever.

Those NH inverters were briefly poular, but have faded away again. They would take one windrow & place it upside down very gently. With proper spacing of your cutter, you could place 2 windrows together - properly spacing your timing to let things dry.

--->Paul

 

[HayDR]

Tedders are a must in grass hay. You can take a tedder and a disc or drum mower are harvest hay just as quick as any mower conditioner out there. Tedding alfalfa is not done much because of leaf loss problems. We harvest a 500 acres of grass hay and do not use a mower conditioner, just 3 point disc mowers (some on a caddy) and tedders.

 

[rambler]

That would make sense - here where I live alfalfa for dairy is the cash crop of hay, grass hay is just the road ditches & field roads baled up for fiber. So everyone is geared for alfalfa production.

I've not seen an impeller conditioner either - same reasoning. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

--->Paul

 

[Phred]

I have a Vermeer wheel rake and like it. The pro of it for round bale grass hay is that it can be setup to exactly produce a windrow of the right width for your baler. So no need to zigzag drive the baler and you still get full well shaped bales.
The negative is that it does not touch the center of the windrow. This results in poor pickup of grass hay in this center area when compared to other rakes.

The tedder may save you if the weather is marginal.
I have an old one but try to minimize its use since it burns diesel (via the tractor pulling it) and only throws the grass around where it was to start with! If the weather is hot and dry then no need to waste the diesel. If it looks like rain then I break out the tedder. Fluffy grass drys much faster.
Let it dry a day or so after cutting and the top layer of grass will feel dry to the touch, but the grass underneath will still be damp.
Also you will likely notice that the hay is lying fairly flat on the ground. Liitle wind get to the underlying layers of grass.
Then run the tedder over it to turn over the
grass and it will all be mixed up in a fluffy layer, so the underneath layers will also dry out. Also all the layers of the grass are all mixed up now and what was underneath is probably no longer on the bottom.
The wind can also now get at the underlying grass layers and help cure it properly to the right mositure content. Or perhaps the real goal is the right mositure content uniformely through out the grass layers.
All this assume you have a heavy grass cutting.

Fred

 

[riptides]

I am still researching the equipment needs and talking with the previous owner about haying.

I did find a "nice" wagon cart off in the south part of the fields a week ago.

All I have to do now is "fix" it. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif All the metal looks to be in good working order, it just needs new wood.

I talked about trading up my B7800, but I am not getting figures I like, just yet. And....

My B is putting out 22HP at the PTO, the L3400 series is advertised at 27.5. I am sold on HST, I don't want to start the battle again... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Is the haying equipment we have discussed, based on pull power or PTO power. This is not clear to me.

Once we figure out is it PULL or PTO, I'll go move my upgrade questions into the Kubota sections for upgrading. Yes, I am sold on "orange". No offence, it just has worked out really well for me.

Thanks for all your advise and opinions.

-Mike Z. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[slowzuki]

I didn't reread all this thread but regarding balers, I believe our JD baler states 30 hp is required to run the thing. An older JD 14 would likely run on 20 hp.

A bigger problem is how much your tractor weighs.

If perfectly flat, you could sneak by with tractor a bit lighter than baler. This is how you see some small older tractors baling.

If you are on any kind of hill, I want a 2wd tractor to have as much weight on the rear tires including tougue weight as what the baler weighs. 4wd one could sneak by leaving it in 4wd and taking the whole tractors weight.

If you want to be able to pull this stuff in the morning on wet dew grass, increase tractor weight again.

Our JD 336 baler weighs 3600 lbs without the thrower, tongue weight is about 800 lbs.

A neighbour uses a Ford 3000 with unloaded tires to pull baler w thrower and wagon. It works well in his flat fields but I have been in a wagon when he jackknived the 3 coming down a mild hill (4% or so) The tractor weighs about 5000 lbs, the baler is about 4000 lbs and a full wagon about 8000 lbs. Obviously unsafe on hills but usable on flat. Btw the tractor is about 40 pto hp.

We currently use a 52 hp 2wd that weighs 5000 lbs or so and a 52 hp 4wd (run in 2wd) weighing about 9000 lbs. Both run and pull the baler without wagon perfectly. The lighter one gets shoved by the plunger much more vigorously, the larger one you can't feel it almost at all.

We are looking at replacing the larger tractor with a Kubota L5030 HSTC that weighs 4000 lbs without loading the tires and another 1200 lb for the loader (total of 6000 lbs if loader). Daryl (5030) has used this setup in flat Michigan for a few years with great sucess even pulling a wagon.

The smallest L series I would recommend is the 4330 for any amount of acreage, maybe the 3 cylinder models for 5 acres or something you're doing for fun.

 

[riptides]

In my quest for knowledge, I found this site..
Haying 101

I thought it might be of interest to other newbie/wannabe grasslanders.

The information here (this site) is invaluable, but the link I posted gives nice pictures and should help clear things up.

I have not made any purchases yet, still working on the farm house, but my plan is to hay. That is my goal anyway.

-Mike Z. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[sweettractors]

When you are ready to make your purchase, based on sound information. Please give us a call at 270-528-3323 or email sweet@scrtc.com and we will take care of your needs--Ken Sweet

Sweet Farm Equipment LLC *New and Used Hay Equipment Shipped Inexpensive Nationwide*

 

[jwcinpk]

What folks don't seem to gather is that minimum horsepower required to run a baler is just what it says and a 40 pto horsepower tractor is not putting 40 pto hp out all the time. My old baler bales like a brand new one since I put it behind my 6000. With the MF 135 I had before it just wasn't getting enough power to it all the time to bale good. Even though you can bale with 30 hp you really need more. A lot of people are trading old balers when the problem lies in hp.

 

[WilliamBos]

Hi,

Not all balers are built the same. My Dad used to run an old oliver with our MF 35, and it ran it with ease. We now have a MF 3 and we will see how it runs it. If you keep your tractor maintained, I think it will give you the rated PTO HP.

Just my 2 cents.

Will

 

[MFMan]

Check out Massey Ferguson's line of Compact & Utility hay tools while you're at it:
http://www.masseyferguson.agcocorp.com

 

[mows4food]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">(
I don't mind the work, and am actually looking forward to it.
I'd rather be outside, than in.

Again, thanks and I will be replying to posters individually for more information and elaboration. I am humbled.)</font>by all means get a sickle mower and a 256 nh rake then /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[riptides]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( by all means get a sickle mower and a 256 nh rake then )</font> /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Maybe I'll take it up a notch or two. I am spending more time over there now, the grass is greener, literally, and it is growing.

I see myself asking the neighboors for help real soon now.

The farm house is where the attention is going, kind of need some place to live. But the barn is dry! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

-Mike Z. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[tough451]

If you are going to insist on making your own hay buy a utility tractor for the baling and mowing,the one you have would be great for a tedder and raking.
I have in the past used an 870 JD to bale with a 73 NH and a old International both square baler. While it had the hp to run the balers I do not feel that it had the size the balers would rock the tractor and that couldnt be good.
So do yourself a favor and find a larger Utility tractor for the farm work at least 40hp pto.

 

[riptides]

Yep.

I had a friend come over and show me the light this weekend.
He has been haying for quite some time. We went over the numerous projects, and well, the haying is going to require another tractor. I had thought on just one, but the place is just too big.

I guess I was just not being honest with myself and thought a trade up would do it.

Now I have to rethink for a purchase.

Where is that credit card?

-Mike Z. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[HayDR]

If you want to do hay and have only one tractor it is possible. We have plenty of customers harvesting 20-50 acres of hay with just one tractor. They usually have tractors like a Ford 4630, JD2355, etc. It is done all the time with 40-60 HP utility style tractors. Using a tractor this size is big enough to handle a round or square baler, disc mower, tedder,etc. If you have a tractor in the range of a compact from 25-40 PTO HP you can handle a square baler, drum mower, some disc mowers, & tedder. Many of our customers mow and rake their own hay but have a neighbor custom bale their hay for them. Growing up in the 1960's many of the grassland farmers farmed 300 acres with one tractor like this: MF135, JD820, AC-D15, & 4000 Ford.

 

[tough451]

Dad always said they worked the ground on there 300 acres with a 35 and 65 Masseys, thats not counting the hundreds of acres of custom siliage they cut with the 35.
And we maintained over 100 with the help of the Angus for about 15 years with a 1967 135 Massey that is until us sons started adding our tractors to the farm.
So all in all 1 will do but it sure is eaiser when you have 2.

 

[tough451]

OH yeah now that I have my own place I cant wait to have a second tractor.

 

[ddivinia]

I have a JD 4720 tractor. It is considered a compact with 58hp -> 50hp PTO. I want to use it for baling. I was really set on square bales, but I might do rounds also. I will be baling around 20 acres give or take. Maybe more or less depending on how the other plans go. Labor might be a question.

On the round bales, the Vermeer Rebel 5400 seems to be a good call. Any other to look at?

Square balers - I missed a JD 336 that would have probalby been perfect, but what others should I look at? NH seems to be a good call. My JD dealer is top notch and local. The NH dealer is a long drive away.

Mower - looking at the CCM unit.

Rake -Not sure yet - a wheel rack for sure, but I have not narrowed it down yet.

This thread sure has a lot of info - thanks everybody.

D.