Haying Equipment needs 101

riptides · Dec 31, 2004

Thank you all for the information. I have read, rather quickly, all your advise. I will be re-reading and learning more in-depth as time permits.

I *hope* to do this part-time. I do have a full time job, but can be very flexible in my timing to tend to the hay. The acreage is actually about four parcels. We will say 30-10-10.
My first priority will be increasing my tractor size, and then the
hay equipment basics.

I *hope* to provide the hay for the two hay-burners we have presently. They will probably think they died and went to heaven when they see where they are ending up. The rest of it I hope to make available for the horse community locally.

I do have amble store areas. with a *huge* barn that will do just fine.

By quick reading these wonderfull info-bites I have already found out I need a rake, and the cutters are not as simple as I thought either.

I don't mind the work, and am actually looking forward to it.
I'd rather be outside, than in.

Again, thanks and I will be replying to posters individually for more information and elaboration. I am humbled.

Happy New Year.
-Mike Z. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

motorjock · Dec 31, 2004

We have 30 acres and sprigged 2 yrs ago this march. We have about 95% stand of beautiful coastal, thanks to some right timed rain. We also wanted to do our own hay, but couldn't justify the money for the right equipment at this time. I did by a TN75d if we ever get to, I was trying to purchase for the future . Right now we have a man down the rd who we go to church with that does hay for a living and doesn't mind making some xtra easy money at $1 a bale. We would like to buy a disc mower in the future so we don't have to depend on him to do everything. The only drawback is that when our hay needs to be done, so does his. But this year it worked out good. We got over 2100 bales off and have sold out except what we keep for ourselves. We have learned that if you fertilize a bunch, your hay is better than most people who don't want to spend the xtra money. We sold our hay at $4 in the barn and $4.50 delivered. All of it was in our local area. Good luck and I look forward to see what you decide.

Banjo · Jan 2, 2005

This is an amazing thread ... exactly the question I was looking for an answer to. We're just about to take posession of a farm near Merrickville, in Eastern Ontario (very exciting). There's ~80 acres cleared/60 fenced and we're hoping to harvest some hay. All I have right now is an Allis Chalmers D-14 tractor (with loader, plow and backhoe). This info so far seems right on the money, is there anything that anyone would recommend differently for this area? All our fields are flat.

I'm also looking for recommendations on improving the ground. The fields have had cattle grazing on them for the past 10 years or so (as far as I know), and they have been fertilized with a 27-13-13 fertilizer, about 2 tons to do the 60 acres or so. I'd also like to know about "organic" options too. Pointers to other threads is fine ... I haven't started searching on this part yet, so appologies if it's already been answered previously.

thanks in advance, Andrew

HayDR · Jan 2, 2005

You need to do a soil test or you will wind up wasting money on the wrong fertilizer mix. 2 tons 27-13-13 on 60 acres is nothing. Likely you will need 3 tons of lime per acre and use 12-24-24 it will not burn your lime up so quick.
Mark Carter

Keith_B · Jan 3, 2005

( If you use a single roller bar rake on hay fields of 3 acres or more you are exposing you hay unnecessarily to rain. You could have had the hay raked and in the bale with the capacity of the larger rakes.

Many of the part-time farmers work another job and will get off early at noon to 2:00 and go home and rake hay all afternoon and bale well into the evening. With a V-Rake or larger capacity rake you can let the hay cure longer if needed because you can rake it 3-5 times quicker with a larger rake. If it takes you a day to rake your hay then you have added that time period as extra time you have exposure of rain damage. A large rake and large tedder is a must for the part-time grassland farmer.

NH256 rakes still have their place. )

I have a tough time figuring that one out. We can start raking a 15-20 acre field while getting the baler greased up and ready to bale. By the time the raking is finished the baler still has a long way to go. The NH roll-o-bar rake we have will walk through the hayfield in a hurry.

Going slower with the roll-o-bar has no advantage, as it is ground driven. The tire is going to turn a revolution by distance, and actuate the rake the same amount for the hay no matter if you are creeping along, or running at a pretty good clip.

Robert_in_NY · Jan 3, 2005

One problem with the NH rakes is that if you go to fast in heavy windrows the hay will just unroll itself and make picking it up with a baler fun even with the superwide pickup of the 575. So while you can drive just as fast as you want you do need to maintain a certain speed to control your windrow shape and consistency.

Please understand, no one is knocking the side delivery rakes. They are good rakes but like everything, there are better rakes now on the market. Each rake on the market is designed for a certain type of operation. So while a rotary rake might not work for you the NH 256 would. Same with a wheel rake, it works great for some but it didn't fit my application. In the end, the 256 still has a place on most hay farms and most farmers still have a side delivery on their farm somewhere for certain applications. I use a 256 for all my raking needs right now till I can get a rotary.

slowzuki · Jan 4, 2005

I think the comment on speed is that smaller part time farmers generally don't have two tractors.

We have the use of 2 and it sure is handy but with some better equipment one would be enough.

Greg_Phillips · Jan 4, 2005

One our farm I have used both a side delivery rake and a 8 wheel Vermeer wheel rake. The wheel rake makes raking faster (one pass to a windrow) and will pick up everything on the ground. The wheel rake is fine for most cattle applications. However, I feel that if you were going to do a large amount of hay for horse farms, a twin side delivery rake would be better. JMHO

riptides · Jan 4, 2005

( First off I would get a tractor at least in the utility size and in the 50 hp range. )

Now I am leaning towards keeping the B7800 and just getting another tractor all together. Ouch. From what I am reading, two tractors look to be the best solution for even a part-time hay operation(s).

( Then come along with a hay tedder to get the hay spread out and dry quickly. )

I take it a tedder lays it out properly? These new cutters, can they do tedding too?

( I'm also assuming two things. One is that your land is relatively flat. Second assumption is that you are doing grass hay. If your land isn't flat and you want to do alflafa I would change things. )

The land is flat and flat! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I love it! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

If I want to do alfalfa, what would I be looking for that would be different?

Thanks, doc.
-Mike Z. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

riptides · Jan 4, 2005

Paul,

(
A mower-conditioner will make windrows, and crimps the hay so it dries out quicker. For that amount of hay in a damp climate, you will want something with condioning rolls on it - not just a simple sickle bar or disc cutter. )

I am still a little confused here, mower-conditioners and tedders, do they not make the same result? Nice windrows?
Perfectly cut grasses.

Thanks.
-Mike Z. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

riptides · Jan 4, 2005

Robert,

( Let us know what your plans are and hopefully we can clear some things up for you )

Well, the plan is grow my own, then get to work and sell it to those that need it. I have the acreage to do that. I want to find the time.

I am looking towards the future with equipment purchases in my mind. I see the need for hay in this area.

-Mike Z. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

riptides · Jan 4, 2005

Charolais,

( Since you're in Va. ... I have one suggestion to add here. You might want to use a rotary rake. )

Agree, most people I have helped and noticed over the past years have rotary equipment. And with the climate we have enjoyed in the commonwealth, it looks to be a must have piece.

-Mike Z. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

riptides · Jan 4, 2005

Keith,

Thanks for the information. I am on the link. I think your post is informative and what caught me was the keywords -
low maintenance.

To all,
I am hoping with newer equipment this low maintenance holds true.

Thanks.
-Mike Z. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Robert_in_NY · Jan 4, 2005

If your plan is to market it then you will want newer equipment. You can not risk break downs while you have hay on the ground. You can get by with an older mower and rake to get started but buy the best baler you can afford. If your mower breaks down you can still bale what is on the ground but if your baler breaks down you are SOL. I have the luxury to have 3 balers at my disposal. So far I have only ever needed one but I did have a problem last year where I was waiting for a part to get the baler back together. Rain was not forecasted and the hay was for cows so it was not too vital (I did buy an extra part though in case it ever happened again).

Two tractors are better then one, raking with most rakes does not take a lot of hp and the lighter the tractor the better as it does not compact as much. The only time a small tractor comes into play is if you have a heavy windrow you are straddling, the hay will catch on the tractor and will be annoying as it makes clumps in the windrow the baler will pick up. If you can afford it, buy a Good 60 pto hp tractor (2wd will be fine as you don't usually need FWA to hay and if you do /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif), a good baler and a decent cutter and rake. The better the equipment the more fun you will have. If you are always working on your equipment you will not care for haying very much.

As for one of your questions, a discbine cuts the hay and lays it in a swath. A 9' discbine will lay a 6-7' swath. You can tighten them down into a very tight windrow if you want but it depends on your fields. A tedder takes the swath and spreads it back out over the entire field and helps to fluff the hay up. This allows more air around the cut hay and will let it dry quicker. You do not need to worry about a tedder at first but if you can afford one it will help speed things up a bit. I do not own a tedder yet and to be honest, it would not have helped this last year anyway.

cowboydoc · Jan 4, 2005

I think you would be very smart to have two tractors.

For cutting the hay you have two options:

1. A disc mower, sickle bar mower, drum mower, etc. are all just going to cut the hay and lay it down, NOT IN A WINDROW. It will just lay where it was cut.

2. A mower conditioner, swather, etc. is going to cut the hay, crimp it or rough it up with rollers or impellers, and lay it in a nice fluffy windrow. You can vary the size of the windrow depending on if you have heavy hay, light hay, need it to dry quicker, etc.

A tedder is also NOT going to put the hay in a windrow. A tedder will take the windrow and throw it back out flat again. With grass hay I think it's a waste of time to do. Some people swear by them but I don't find that it makes enough of a difference to mess with really. If you have hay that was ready to bale and it gets rained on then a tedder is invaluable.

With alfalfa I would 100% suggest you get a mower conditioner. You will be hard pressed to get alfalfa hay dry very quick with a disc mower and no conditioning.

I would also get a newer baler. Alfalfa does not do very well if it gets rained on. You also have a narrower window to get hay up. The reason is because if it goes even a couple hours passed the max. dry time you are going to start to lose leaves big time. Also the newer balers are much kinder on the leaves with alfalfa. The leaves are where your protein and nutrients are. Lose the leaves lose the quality.

Robert_in_NY · Jan 4, 2005

Richard, I forgot to ask you, with your alfalfa, do you rake it or do you use and inverter? I know a lot of the guys here use inverters but some use rotarys on the alfalfa

slowzuki · Jan 4, 2005

I agree with cowboydoc, two tractors is smart if haying. One new or near new tractor and an older model is a good bet.

Tedder use depends on crop and area. In our area it is impossible to get in hay without a tedder. Sileage is ok but not hay.

The process here for grass hay is cut with a mo-co with the swath narrow once dry (noon or so). Let the ground dry that day. Ted the next morning after dew burns off. Rake that pm if it was two really good days, otherwise it lays till day three when it gets raked near noon to sit in a window until it is baled.

I would like to try a disc mower so it could be cut earlier. Currently I have to leave work to cut, the haybine won't cut early in the day. If I could cut at 6 am I could knock down 5 or 10 acres before work.

Charolais · Jan 4, 2005

riptides, everyone has their combination of equipment that fits their needs. I'm pretty much a one man operation here. And we all learn as we go through the years of haying. I know what works for me may not be the best for others and their operations.

I use a 8430 CIH round baler. About a 900-1000 pound roll. So I don't want a large windrow for that baler. I've stayed with that size bale because all my hay barns were built for that size roll to get the most use of the storage. I cut with a JD 820 MOCO. I set the MOCO up to spread the hay out to 9 feet. When I rake with the 254 NH rake teddar I pick up 1 1/2 of the cut of the MOCO. That's the right amount of hay that the CIH baler takes well at a good speed. Any more and I have to slow down to get the hay in the baler. With the smaller baler it's better to put a good even windrow up than the biggest windrow you can make. I can get more hay in the roll also. Good even layers of hay in the round bale suit me for unrolling when feeding. I've been unrolling hay since 1986. It cuts down on wasted hay.

The rotary NH rake has allowed me to rake hay in the morning. Because it takes the hay from the bottom of the windrow and stands it up on top. In other words that rake helps dry the hay instead of waiting for the hay to dry and then rake. So I always gain a day on drying compared to the reel type 256 rake I use to have.

BTW: for those that have never seen a NH 254 it has two sets of rotating arms and brings the hay to the center. Fluffs the hay up instead of roping.

I don't teddar but once in the last 7 years I had some hay to get rained on after I had raked. So with the 254 you pull a few pins and rotate the baskets and it'll spread that windrow back out so it'll dry again. As any of you folks that put up hay know it's pretty hard to get a raked up row of hay to dry after a rain. The 254 does some pretty work to take care of that problem. I've seen folks here have to use a rotary cutter on wet windrows to get rid of them. After I spread it out and give it a couple of hours of sun I can rake it back up and bale.

I think the new models are 255. The one I have was used when I bought it. I replaced the wheel bearings as they were worn out when I bought it and last year I bought new teeth for the arms. I traded in a 20+ year old 256 NH rake and $1,100 for the 254.

I know of two farms here that keep a 254 on hand just for wet windrows. They only use it for that purpose. They have larger balers and in normal conditions they use the big V rake like Befco,JD and others.

To make good hay in Va. you gotta be fast. I'm sure other areas are like that too. All this talk about hay equipment is getting me ready for the annual hay race. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

cowboydoc · Jan 5, 2005

Robert,

We have both side delivery and v-rakes. Depending on the conditions we'll use one or the other. I don't think a rotary rake would do us any good the way we put up hay with the mower conditioners and bigger balers.