Haying Equipment needs 101

   / Haying Equipment needs 101 #61  
I have the 5400 rebel and about 70 hp gross.

On flat ground you can get by with the 5400 and that tractor.
I pull mine up and down, as well as across some steep ground and I would not want any smaller tractor.

I have been very pleased with this baler. It makes very good tight bales, and is easy to service.

Fred
 
   / Haying Equipment needs 101 #62  
What tractor are you using?

Thanks,
D.
 
   / Haying Equipment needs 101 #63  
I've been following this thread since it's inception, and now that the cottage is about to sell, am close to being able to start getting set for haying myself.

I have about 40 pretty much flat acres to cut. I think it's been used for pasture only for about the last 10 years. I think I'm going to need about 1000 square bales to meet my projected feed requirements for the winter.

I have an Allis Chalmers D14 tractor, which is Engine (HP):43, Drawbar (HP): 24.5 PTO (HP): 32.62, according to tractordata.com. It has loaded tires and a loader.

I've arranged to buy a NH310 baler, and likely a MF25 (or similar) PTO powered rake.

I'm looking to get a 7' mower/conditioner to complete the "package". I'm considering a NH 477. Does someone know about the different NH 7' haybines? So far I found 472, 477, and 478 models as 7 footers. What are the differences between them? I was leaning towards the 7' model because of lower power requirements, and easier handling in some of the tighter spots on the fields.

I'd welcome any thoughts, opinions and suggestions.

thanks, Andrew
 
   / Haying Equipment needs 101 #64  
Take a look at the Massey Ferguson 1457 on the attached link. It offers the 7' width you are looking for plus a patented cast stub on stub guard design that ensures cleans cuts and less plugging, even in tough conditions. It also has a unique rubber/steel conditioner roll design that crimps the crop rather than the "pass and mash" result found with intermeshing chevron rolls. Remember that not all parts of the plant dry at the same rate - leaves dry faster than the stem, so there is no need to mash the entire plant and suffer high leaf loss (if you are in clover, alfalfa, etc.)

http://www.masseyferguson.com/agco/MF/NA/HayForage/1400SMC.htm
 
   / Haying Equipment needs 101 #65  
This sure is an interesting topic and lots of good info.

It seems though that equipment type would depend somewhat on climate. That is, in the arid west w/ warm/hot days, nearly no humidity and little or no rain tedding wouldnt be necessary. However, it would speed the drying process some. Whether its enough to justify an extra attachment + work Ill leave to someone else to answer. In the south and northeast tedding would seem to be a distinct advantage. Since the air already contains alot of moisture tedding would seem necessary for enough air space so evaporation (transpiration?) could take place plus getting it (as much as possible) up off the damp/moist ground. Additionally, the less than ideal weather (pop up thunderstorms, cool damp, etc) in both areas can making getting hay in a challenge. So, anything to the farmers advantage would be a good thing. The last thing you want is rain on nearly dry hay esp if its being sold. Im sure tedders cost money but a good used one couldnt be that expensive.

Just thinking aloud here...

For those who sell hay...when do you mow? Ive read reports (from university ag dept/ag extension) that indicate the amt of sugars in the plant is highest at days end which diminishes over night. The reasoning is if you mow during a time when the sugars are at their highest concentration the final product has a higher TDN. This assumes the plant is mowed at the proper maturity level and the haying process doesnt degrade the final product.

The tedder/rakes (those that are convertible) seem to me like a great deal. Its one less attachment to drag into the field and to hook/unhook. It also seems as though they would work pretty well. In the areas Ive lived no one has them. I assume thats what the NH 254 is?
 
   / Haying Equipment needs 101 #66  
I don't post much anymore, just lurk, but, we are commercial forage growers as well as feed our horses and maintain our feed lot operation which averages around 500 head in containment at any particular time.

Like CowBoyDoc, I have my preferences and experiences. I've used many brands of hay tools but I prefer New Holland. for everything but rakes. I have a NH side delivery rake but it's just a yard ornament. I use a Kuhn Gyrorake. Actually we also have a Giehl rotary also.

Problem with a side delivery rake is that it tends to "rope" the windrow while a rotary fluffs the windrow and speeds drydown. Besides, a rotary has way fewer moving parts to wear or break and most rotaries can be used to ted with the guard in the up position.

We have 2 round bailers, both NH. We have a 638 with an acid applicator and a 786 computerized unit with net wrap. Both units have their uses and the 4 square bailer, the 638, runs bails that are easier to handle than it's big brother. The big bailer also bails constalks and wheat straw. The proprionic acid setup is nice for first cut or when the weather threatens as you can bail at 20% actual moisture without spoilage. We use NH buffered proprionic acid that is non corrosive and machine freindly.

We have 2 square bailers, both NH both are offset. The most important thing an ANY square bailer is the knotters. They have to be tight without any sideplay and the followers must be in good shape or they will mistie. Always, when purchasing a used square bailer, have a bailer mechanic who is familiar with the particular brand, look over the knotters before you buy. NEVER try to adjust the knotters yourself other than changing the twine cutters. Keep them well greased and free of chaff. There are add on knotter blowers available that keep the knotters free of chaff. I just use a big brush about every 100 bales or so and the machines (all of them) get greased every evening.

Our rotary rakes are all hydraulically lifted which makes turning a breeze. On first cut, my partner will follow behind me (by a couple of hours) with our model 35 IH steel wheeled crimper. The second crimp gives a faster drydown which is crucial in the moderate temps of early summer.

We also have a NH inverter, but you don't need that for small acerage.

We run to mowing machines, a JD MoCo with an SCH cutter bar. I recommend SCH bars. They are really trouble free and the sections (knives) can be changed individually. SCH is a premium cutterbar and the initial cost is more. SCH can be retrofitted or specified on any make of mower. I use the MoCo for 3rd and 4th cut as in my experience, it seems to do a better job with the "finer" preceeding cuts. It has chevron crimper rolls. We also have a NH center pivot rotary haybine for 1st and 2nd cuts. The rotary does a better job in the heavier cuts and won't clog like the sickle unit. It does take a pretty heavy PTO horsepower to drive though.

I have my hay certified by Litchfield Analytical Labs in Litchfield, Michigan. Litchfield provides mailers anywhere in the USA for return of samples to the lab. I use a cylindrical hay probe made from an old golf club for pulling samlpes. You can buy commercial probes, but the golf club is as good as any. We specify wet chemistry over dry UV because of the more accurate reports.

We also use a Delmhorst certified moisture tester with RB probes, SB probes and field sampling probes. Delmhorst is available from Seedboro Inc. Delmhorst is the recognized leader in sampling equipment.

Our rolling stock consists of about 12 Giehl tandem axle haywagons and a couple of goosneck trailers as well as all the help we can get for square bales. I pay $20.00 per hour for field help. Nobody works cheap anymore.

Our motive power consists of a Kubota 105SA, my 5030 HSTC an Kubota M9000HDcc3, a Massey 1085 and a few smaller units. All the field tractors have cabs and AC.

We run around 2000 rounds on first. Second and third and maybe forth are all squared. Last year we made in the excess of 7500 squares on 3 cuts. In addition, we run around 1000 rounds of wheat straw and around 500 rounds of cornstalks. The wheat and corn is used for feedlot bedding.

I like turnkey machinery and implements. The absolute worst case scenario is getting it cut, raked and windrowed and your bargain bailer won't bail. We have done custom bailing in those cases and I charge plenty for it.

As far as when to cut, well, every hay farmer I know of has a different opinion. We tend, weather permitting, to cut when we see about 10-15% blossom and we cut no lower than one inch above grade on 2nd, 3rd and especially 4th cut. If you cut too low and too late here in Michigan, your fields will suffer winter kill. First is taken low as possible to grade without damaging the cutters.

We fertilize after 1st., cut and after our last cut and spot spray the fields for weeds. We contract with a certified argonomist and he checks the soil and adjusts the mixture for optimum growth. Beware, fertilizer has tripled in the past year. We are averaging around $60.00 per acre per application as of present. We always scout our fields for pests such as potato leaf hoppers and aphids. If found, we have our problem field sprayed with the appropriate chemicals. Currently, we have upsized our operation to around 350 acres of black, fertile loam. I couldn't begin to set a figure on equipment, but suffice to say, Farm Credit loves us.

In closing, I have to say that my views and opinions are mine and reflect on no others. Haying is about 1/2 luck and 1/2 hard work and remember, you can't fool mother nature....she will always win and the rain will come when you don't want it.

There is nothing worse than watching your hard work turn to mulch in that nice summer downpour....knowing that you just have to bail it up to get it off the field.

As my signature says: "If haying was easy, everyone would do it" It isn't.

By the way, we were COMPLETELY sold out by February last year, excepting the hay for our own needs and no hay was sold until after December 31st.

I might add that we were the first to use a rotary rake around here and we, ourselves were skeptical, that is, until we used one. As far as I am concerned, a side delivery rake is a good yard ornamnet now.
 
   / Haying Equipment needs 101
  • Thread Starter
#67  
Daryl,

Thanks for your informative and enlightening post. I enjoyed reading it.

I have realized this is a tough business to get into. At this moment my wife and I have debated about what to do with our property. I am still inclined to move towards getting equipment for our needs only. This would save me the time, finding others to keep the pastures under control and of course not have the constant worry of finding and paying for hay.
My wife may be coming around to getting more involved. She has enjoyed her tractor time and realizes that SHE can be a contributer to the efforts.
We are still looking for the basics and of course the bigger tractor. I hope to start purchases this fall with first use next year.

Thanks to all for the information.
-Mike Z. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
   / Haying Equipment needs 101 #68  
GREAT post and great information. Sounds like you have quite an operation going.
Thanks for taking the time to share your real world experiance.
Dave
 
   / Haying Equipment needs 101 #69  
"The big bailer also bails constalks and wheat straw. "

I know the cornstalks are bailed after harvest.. but have you ever bailed cornstalks w/ the ears attached.. like this year.. ears are small.. not filled out. Usually the farmer would chop it for silage.

"Always, when purchasing a used square bailer, have a bailer mechanic who is familiar with the particular brand, look over the knotters before you buy"

Or bring 4 bales of straw w/ you and have them run it through the baler!

"The wheat and corn is used for feedlot bedding."

I had some winter wheat(didn't harvest the grain) that I cut and round baled this spring.. even though I feed grain & hay.. the steers ate the wheat bales up like candy.

Thanks for the great info..
 
   / Haying Equipment needs 101 #70  
Funny thing about that. Most of the corn stalks we round are seed corn stalks and the field corn, well, they aren't our fields, we buy a combined fields and bail them. Same applies to the wheat straw, that is, of course, the chopper has to be removed from the combine and a windrow tail has to be attached. We never bail anything from a rotary combine like an International. The chop way too fine.

I have an old spare NH model 67 Hayliner that is a rooling rustbucket but the knotters are tight and it bails just as good as a new bailer so long as you use 130 propolyne twine.
 
 
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