Has King Kutter gone Chinese

[neverenough]

I have a Chinese finish mower of unnamed brand and have been very happy with it. I got it cheap when I bought the tractor. I even cut my long, weedy pasture with it and it did fine.

I had been considering a KK rotary cutter and box blade but I think I'm going to buy different implements from my closest Yanmar dealer. After reading this thread I think that is the right decision for me.

By the way, as for American vehicles holding up, I have had amazing luck with Chrysler products. I have had a Dodge Ram, Plymouth Acclaim and Plymouth Laser (this is perhaps more a Mitsubishi though as it was the same vehicle as the Eclipse) go over 200,000 miles with relatively few problems. My Ram worked it's tailgate off too. In fact the only reason I sold that Ram was because of gas prices and decided it was not in my best interest to own 2 trucks. Had to replace it with an econo car. Other people have told me that Chryslers were the worst cars they ever owned though. For me that has been GM. I have had 3 GMs that all lost their tranny at 130,000 miles like they were programmed to do it. At least that is how I feel since it happened at the same exact mileage on all of them. But, I think American cars are at least close these days on quality to their Japenese counterparts. But, as some have pointed out, the cost to make them has gotten too high and the Big 3 (or 2.5) are in danger now and just have never been able to compete with Honda on how the factory is run. I personally think a lot of the unskilled labor is paid too highly. It is one thing for a mechanic to be paid what he/she is, these people have skills. It is another for someone who just turns bolts to be paid that highly.

I've gotten a lot of miles out of my American cars, but, they nickle and dime you to death compared to the Honda's and Mazdas I've had. Example, I have a Honda Accord with 283,000 miles on it. The only thing that does not work on it is the wiper for the hatchback window. I replaced the normal wear items like ball joints and timing belts, but other than that, nothing abnormal. In comparison, I will use my Olds Cutless as it has been typical. The intermittent wipers stopped working around 30,000 miles. The first injector went out at 55,000 miles, and the traction light starts flashing at about 60,000 miles. At about 95,000 miles the ball joints were shot, and I mean shot. 102,000 miles the radio stopped working, and the car started using oil. 110,000 miles the second injector went out. 121,000 miles and the motor was up to about 1qt a week, and the cruise, and tranny started acting up. 144,000 miles and it's still getting 33mpg and going down the road safely, BUT, IMO it has not held up very well so far. Sad to think a $17,000 MSRP car is worth $800 9 years later according to the blue book. I'm a Ford person, and I think the Old's replacement car most likely will be a Mercury Milan, but I think I will be heading back to the Honda dealer for my "commuter" car as I put more miles on it in a shorter period of time.

 

[ddivinia]

My MX6 gear box was made in Spain.

D.

 

[have_blue]

America has too many laws and regulations that stifle business...these countries don't. People are free to do whatever it takes to make it cheap and outbid you and I.

Of course this is only MY opinion...

Joe,

All so true!

Something that's a little under the radar right now is the Great Equalizer that will help make American made machine tools more competitive: $100 a barrel oil! Right now, you can buy a decent 14"x40" Chinese gap bet lathe for $3200. That sucker weighs nearly a ton, so I think it will be costing $4K in no time and $5K in a year or so. Since oil is a world-wide commodity (for better or for worse!), a barrel of oil will cost the same in China as it costs here. I think we will start noticing the prices of heavy tools such as brush hogs equalizing somewhat in no time at all. When oil goes up to $200, many of us won't even be able to afford imported machine tools! Right now is the time for American manufacturers to start gearing up.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

You can make a choice here too. King Kutters somewhat shotty products are only about 20% cheaper than Woods, Bush Hog or Landpride who all make their stuff here. China is building our bargin basement goods from tractor implemenets to walmart's juice boxes, but most items of quality are made elsewhere.

 

[Soundguy]

I'm aware of the japanese yanmar / JD relationship.. but AFAIK.. there is also a chinese relationship going on.. or at least there was talk of one a few years ago.

Soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

Honda, Mazda.. which one of those are chinese?

Soundguy

I've gotten a lot of miles out of my American cars, but, they nickle and dime you to death compared to the Honda's and Mazdas I've had. Example, I have a Honda Accord with 283,000 miles on it. The only thing that does not work on it is the wiper for the hatchback window. I replaced the normal wear items like ball joints and timing belts, but other than that, nothing abnormal. In comparison, I will use my Olds Cutless as it has been typical. The intermittent wipers stopped working around 30,000 miles. The first injector went out at 55,000 miles, and the traction light starts flashing at about 60,000 miles. At about 95,000 miles the ball joints were shot, and I mean shot. 102,000 miles the radio stopped working, and the car started using oil. 110,000 miles the second injector went out. 121,000 miles and the motor was up to about 1qt a week, and the cruise, and tranny started acting up. 144,000 miles and it's still getting 33mpg and going down the road safely, BUT, IMO it has not held up very well so far. Sad to think a $17,000 MSRP car is worth $800 9 years later according to the blue book. I'm a Ford person, and I think the Old's replacement car most likely will be a Mercury Milan, but I think I will be heading back to the Honda dealer for my "commuter" car as I put more miles on it in a shorter period of time.

 

[Theowegian]

My Landpride RFM model FDR1572 has a chinese gearbox, gears and bearings. I got new parts from Landpride when I rebuilt the gearbox and everything I got from the dealer was made in china - even the 11" drive pulley.
So much for american made...

 

[Dargo]

Not all Chinese stuff is cheap trash. If you own a pair of Bose Quiet Comfort II headphones just look and see where they are made. It isn't here in the U.S. China can produce quality when given specific parameters for their build guidelines. However, they can produce some awful junk if only left to produce a product based on price.

 

[Soundguy]

Is this a bad time to point out that in many circles Bose stands for:

B)ring
O)ther
S)ound
E)quipment

There are others.. but this one is 'G' rated.

In all honesty.. i think their consumer grade equipment is top notch. It's when you hit their PA gear that you run into issues.

Soundguy

 

[neverenough]

Honda, Mazda.. which one of those are chinese?

Soundguy

Those who ignore the past are destin to repeat it. China is Japan 30+ years ago. The technology is in favor of China, to improve to world class quality in a much shorter time than Japan did. To know the past and present of Japan, is to know the present and future of China. The only difference between Japan of the past, and China now is, China has a much larger workforce to tap, there for the labor will remain lower cost for much longer.

 

[joerocker]

Plus they have their OWN resources. Japan had to import most raw materials, China has their own.

Hot tip...if you're in business...learn Chinese!

 

[scott_vt]

Wow, interesting thread, lots of interesting opinions.

The only King Kutter equipment that I own is a 6ft rear grader blade. I knew it was a light duty import implement when I purchased it to maintain my 800 ft driveway. To date it has done the job I intended for it. If I knew I was going to be doing a lot of heavy duty work with it I would have purchased something with more beef rather than this unit. The blade could be easily bent if snagged on a large stone or other unmoveable object. For light grading of the drive it does great.

 

[Soundguy]

I disagree. 70's era yanmar tractors are consistant in fit and finish with todays standards in some areas.. and head and shoulders above a jinma in fit and finish... Better metalurgy.. etc..

the stuff about labor force sounds right though.

Soundguy

 

[have_blue]

the stuff about labor force sounds right though.

Soundguy

China is at a disadvantage to where Japan was 20-30 years ago. China's political climate is not as conducive to small businesses coming on line and growing. But,,, as they begin to embrace Capitalism, look out!

Although China has much more natural resources than Japan, they are still not a resource-rich country. That's where the good old USA shines. We need to stop the BS, quit taxing businesses to death and let them compete or our economy will eventually tank.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Yea, American manufacturers can't compete. Thats why we all live in poverty like a 3rd world nation.

Hot tip...if you're in business...learn Chinese!

Well all you folks can think that, but there are still SOME of us who avoid buying goods made in communist nations and often choose to pay more to get an American made product. I am one of those. I'm also the first to admit that sometimes it is almost impossible to buy goods that are not foreign made, but it is possible to buy non-communist goods. Yes, the price is a bit higher, but last time I checked, we still are not allies with any communist nation. And since I know the price of freedom is not free, I am willing to pay a couple bucks more to support American jobs if I have the option.

 

[RobJ]

Did you know that for every vehicle GM makes, $5000 goes towards retirement benefits?

Total US sales in 2005 was about 17,000,000. If GM did 10,000,000 that's 50 billion. I'm just curious where that number came from.

BTW I don't work for either. Only have a ford sd, Surburban, and a mustang.

 

[slaveToHorses]

I was at the farm store the other day and looked at the KK attachments in the lot. They all looked like junk to me. No offense to anyone that owns one. The prices were very good and I can see the attraction there but not enough to buy a cheap tool. I hate cheap tools. I always regret buying cheap tools.

As to Chinese, well several key castings on my new wizzbang John Deere are made in China and they look pretty good. I have had some experience dealing with Chinese manufacturing and the number one issue is quality control. The only way to get good consistant quality is to have a QA person on-site.

Most big manufacturers have parts and subassemblies made all over the world. I don't worry too much about it anymore, as a consumer anyway. I just evaluate the quality of the end product.

As China becomes more of a major supplier, they will also become more of a major consumer. It all works out in the end. There are a lot of US/Western/etc. companies out there that are really excited about selling to the Chinese. As that happens, the cost of labor will go up....

 

[joerocker]

OK, let me look around...

Found this on FoxNews: GM's pension liability at the end of 2005 was $10.92 billion, according to its balance sheet.

This was from the Washington Post: GM said its pension obligations totaled about $89 billion, with about $90 billion in assets.

Wikipedia said this: The Canadian single payer health care plan saves automakers $1500 per vehicle produced compared to the cost for health care in the United States.

United Transportation Union: GM and other Detroit auto companies face heavy burdens for pension and health care expenses, which they refer to as legacy costs. The companies estimate these expenses cost them $1,800 per vehicle.

Nashua Telegraph: It is estimated GM’s cost per vehicle is about $3,000 more than that of Toyota. The largest contributor to that disadvantage is labor costs.

Here is another: Every Chevy and Buick, each Hummer, Caddy, Pontiac or GMC driven off a dealer's lot by a happy customer this year has cost General Motors Corp. a bundle.

The company lost an average of $1,227 per vehicle in North America in the first half of the year, according to a new report, and company insiders say the hemorrhaging hasn't stopped.

So, who's to know?

I saw $5000 somewhere a long time ago. Perhaps I remember it wrong...maybe it's TOTAL benefits for ALL workers including retirees.

 

[roxynoodle]

A lot of us are talking about our cars on this forum. I have only owned one that was foreign (though it was built in Tennessee) which was a Nissan truck. I only owned it to 130,000 miles because I needed a bigger truck. At that time it needed a manifold gasket and a new emergency brake. So, not a bad truck at all. My 95 Dodge, however never needed any gaskets up until I sold it in November at 213,000 miles. At 201,000 miles I needed a torque converter and the starter had failed right before that. Never replaced a single suspension part which I thought was amazing with all the towing it did and driving on these country roads. The best part is that I went to 189,000 miles before I had to replace the front brake pads and rotors. At any rate very few repairs, what a great truck. I replaced it with another Dodge and I hope to have similar luck with it. I also have a Ford Mustang with 117,000 miles on it now and had it in to the dealer a couple months ago and it came through with flying results. If a dealer can't find anything wrong with it, then there must be nothing wrong with it! It is only the GMs that hate me. They could probably start producing the best cars in the world but I wouldn't buy one.

I do admit I have seen Hondas and Nissans with 300k or even 400k miles on them. Wasn't there a Honda or Toyota in the news a few years back with a million miles? But, if properly cared for, most American cars should get to 250k miles these days (unless it is a GM and I am the owner)

And yes I own a Japanese tractor but it seems to me I could have bought a Deere and it would still have been a Yanmar with green and yellow paint.