Growing Old With Dignity

[ovrszd]

Greg, you come from good stock. I have confidence you'll be as graceful. Very much sorry for your loss my friend.

 

[300UGUY]

Reading this hurts. I just got back from Florida, seeing my mom and dad. They are in their mid 80’s. Mom is in good shape mentally, but walks around pretty slow. Dad gets around better, but I am seeing some forgetfulness, and some confusion. I’ve tried to get them to move back north, but they refused. I saw my grandfathers alsziemers, and he did not have any dignity left. My grandmother was better, she went into assisted living, cost her estate about $300K. And that was 15 years ago.

We don’t have kids. Attempts at having a relationship with nieces and nephews have resulted in zero. We are 64 & 57. We have all the legal stuff in place, but we need to revise that ASAP. I am the oldest and the executor for my parents. Additionally, I have a younger sister who has some issues. I think a couple of my siblings are going to be really disappointed with my parents estate. There won’t be much left, I see them living several more years, and needing assisted care.

I was part of a team that did Masonic services. The older the guy, the fewer the folks at the ceremony. One guy was 98. One old lady showed up. And I know that he had several family members in the area. If you live long enough, you apparently die alone. I don’t know much about the family.

On the dying with dignity. Apparently, good luck with that. Our choices may not be what we want.

 

[ovrszd]

I have no comprehension of no family. That skews my comments regarding depending on family for dignified care. I apologize for that lack of consideration.

 

[Ken]

Our buddy, Crash RIP, he went quick.

Was thinking of Crash 325 (Jim Johnson) and went back to hi.s forum posting and 4/17/18 #1554 he wrote God bless & Good By. Jim.
then #1620 5/03/18 posted today things got much worse, will tell about later.
#1622 5/4/18 Have seen to much death in my time on earth. Be ready to go anytime the Lord wants me.
#1647 5/8/18 Not much to say any more. later.
and several postings asking about Jim His Sister Wanda wrote that he had died on May 11th trailer house fire.
James Earl Johnson 11/17/1939 Aztec N.Mex.
Grew up not poor but close to it. went into the Military and rode around in General Curtis Le May nuclear planes when ended his term of service ,tried to be deputy Sherriff of Tombstone . So like the song Cig's ,Whisky , and Wild Women will drive you crazy or insane. all he wanted was a small piece of land where could feed the birds on desert.

ken

 

[turnkey4099]

Totally agree.

My mom (divorced) was a nurse. When she retired, I took her $300K 401K, moved it to an IRA (that I manged), got it up to $500K.

Her condo: paid for
Car: paid for
$500K in liquid funds
Lived INSIDE of her Social Security income... she simply wasn't a spender.

I actually self congratulated myself saying that I'd done a good job for her (and nobody would ever know)... actually danced around with thoughts of if this keeps up, there might be an interesting inheritance...

Then, alzheimers came knocking at her door.

When she passed away, about 10 years later.....

Condo: gone
Car: gone

There was about $30,000 remaining to inherit. I'm thankful I was able to grow her money as well as I was.... had it stayed at $300K, she would have run out far sooner and we would have had to taken her out of her private room into who knows where.

I was thankful that money was there to take care of her.


My father on the other hand..... turns 90 this year and as best I understand, doesn't take as much as an aspirin.... In good health, wits about him. I guess for him, there's no chance of a "long & drawn out" end stage since he's almost 90..... it will likely be quick and "unexpected" (?)


If you are (there is no specific age).... so, if you are over, say.... 60, then you should have a conversation with your kids/family....you should give someone (not necessarily your spouse) powers of attorney so SOMEONE can take care of you if you become unable to do so.

TRUST ME ON THIS..... there will be someone reading this who needs to do this, your kids talk about it behind your back and are unable to broach the subject with you. I have this conversation with people about once a week.... I don't care HOW good your health is.... don't you even dare say "we'll deal with those things when the time arises".... You need to bring it up to your children and deal with it.... you can consider it an act of selfless love.

I ask you... "when is the best time to buy automobile insurance".... (play jepoardy theme....)

Answer: BEFORE you have your accident!!!

So, if you "wait until you need it" (as I've been told MANY times by people over the years) you by definition, are too late. You need to do it before hand....

I'm not an attorney but have dealt with this kind of stuff for over 30 years. You can leave your children a train wreck or to the best you can, a "nice tidy package" and make things easier on them.

Well said indeed. I am 84, all paperwork done, funeral paid for (simple one) powers of attorney all done, eveyone knows what to do. Health? Hale and hearty except for some minor arthritis and a couple artificial hips. Hoping I wake up dead some morning before I need 'care'.

As for runerals? Buy a policy the way YOU want it doen. Leave it to the survivors and they will take a BIG chunk out of whatever funds you leave. They are afraid not ot 'put on the dog' with a fancy funeral.

 

[Diggin It]

Another thing I've seen discussed by some. They don't own anything. There are NO assets in their name. They have nothing for the MedThieves to steal. It's all bee transferred to another relative or some other entity, but I haven't gotten into all the details with them.

SOME hospital corporations will milk an estate dry before suddenly determining that no more care will help and agreeing to end support machines. But until the money runs out, the machines stay connected. Of course, they will never admit to such practices.

 

[ovrszd]

Not sure if this is State driven but, here in Missouri assets transferred out of your name in the last five years can be liened.

 

[downsizingnow48]

Not sure if this is State driven but, here in Missouri assets transferred out of your name in the last five years can be liened.

I think the medicaid look back is 60 months everywhere except here. My understanding is the CA look back is 30 months. I don't think they go after the transferred assets. Instead they impose a penalty, an ineligibility period, which can be years, based on the value of the transferred assets and the cost of care.

There are good reasons to put assets into a trust long before you think it might be needed.

 

[Oldoak]

Not to be callous, but are some thinking more about protecting a future inheritance more than being concerned with dignified elder care for their parents?

Why should tax payers be on the hook for people who could have afforded their own nursing home expense or at least contributed toward it, but through extate planning, gave away their accumulated assets before hand? Perhaps long term care insurance should be mandatory just like Social Security.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

I think the medicaid look back is 60 months everywhere except here. My understanding is the CA look back is 30 months. I don't think they go after the transferred assets. Instead they impose a penalty, an ineligibility period, which can be years, based on the value of the transferred assets and the cost of care.

There are good reasons to put assets into a trust long before you think it might be needed.

If you give your assets away, or sign them over, to someone else... Who pays the bills when the time comes? I hope it isn't the good, honest taxpayers.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

Not to be callous, but are some thinking more about protecting a future inheritance more than being concerned with dignified elder care for their parents?

Why should tax payers be on the hook for people who could have afforded their own nursing home expense or at least contributed toward it, but through extate planning, gave away their accumulated assets before hand? Perhaps long term care insurance should be mandatory just like Social Security.

Yep... that is what I was wondering.

 

[ovrszd]

I think the medicaid look back is 60 months everywhere except here. My understanding is the CA look back is 30 months. I don't think they go after the transferred assets. Instead they impose a penalty, an ineligibility period, which can be years, based on the value of the transferred assets and the cost of care.

There are good reasons to put assets into a trust long before you think it might be needed.

Again, here in Missouri we honor what is called a "Beneficiary Deed" on property. This entitles the property owner to give the property to whomever they choose without probate. Not designed to shelter property. Just to make the final transfer painless and cost effective.

 

[downsizingnow48]

It is all information that people should have. Acting on the basis of publicly available information makes sense; acting in ignorance of the available information is stupid. Of course lots of people do. The stupid, I mean.

In the case of my father in law, he had enough income plus an insurance payout that allowed him to meet all costs as they came in. I looked into Medicaid on his behalf, realized he did not need it, and that was that.

My own situation is similar, I have enough resources that I will never need public assistance for anything. The only time I got any in my whole life was for 3 months after I was discharged from the Army, and I figured I was owed something at the time.

My wife and I did the trust for entirely different reasons, it had nothing to do with health care. It was to avoid the extortionate cost of probate. Spending down my estate on medical care is OK, but having it looted (legally) by lawyers is a whole different deal.

 

[ovrszd]

Do you guys think the charged cost of care is the same to patients that have the means to pay a high amount versus those that don't? Do you think the cost of a hospital stay is the same for all patients regardless of their financial situation? Do you think those that can't afford to pay as much become a taxpayer burden? If you have answered yes then I believe you need to do some research and educate yourself as to how this is done.

For example, have you had a medical procedure done and studied the bill?? Was there a difference in the original charged amount and what your insurance provider paid? Did that difference become a tax payer burden?

Why is it legal for medical services providers to charge a different price for the same procedure to different patients dependent on their wealth?

Who in this discussion is deceiving the honest hard working payer of his bills by varying charges? Who created this skewed playing field?

 

[ovrszd]

It is all information that people should have. Acting on the basis of publicly available information makes sense; acting in ignorance of the available information is stupid. Of course lots of people do. The stupid, I mean.

In the case of my father in law, he had enough income plus an insurance payout that allowed him to meet all costs as they came in. I looked into Medicaid on his behalf, realized he did not need it, and that was that.

My own situation is similar, I have enough resources that I will never need public assistance for anything. The only time I got any in my whole life was for 3 months after I was discharged from the Army, and I figured I was owed something at the time.

My wife and I did the trust for entirely different reasons, it had nothing to do with health care. It was to avoid the extortionate cost of probate. Spending down my estate on medical care is OK, but having it looted (legally) by lawyers is a whole different deal.

Well explained Pat. I tried but was not as eloquent as you.

Not going down a political road at all, just using an example that most here heard. When the presidential debates between Trump and Clint were going on Trump was being attacked because he paid less taxes. He replied something to the effect that the reason he paid less was that he used the laws as they were written and he was smarter.

This situation is the same. If you choose to not utilize the tools at your disposal that's your choice. Just as it's Pat's and mine.

 

[Diggin It]

Do you guys think the charged cost of care is the same to patients that have the means to pay a high amount versus those that don't?

I was in a situation where dental coverage lapsed for some Administrative reasons, not related to anything I did. I had an appointment scheduled prior to when the lapse occurred. They told me if I wanted it done, it would cost me X amount. I asked them what they would get paid by the insurance. I didn't really expect them to tell me, but they did and said the amount would be about a third of what they quoted me. I offered to pay them that same amount and they refused. "If that's all you would get from the insurance company, why can't I just pay that? You'll get the same amount, I'll get the same care." Again, they refused.

I cancelled the appointment and waited for coverage to be restored. I got the work done, they got paid the smaller amount by the insurance.

 

[ovrszd]

I was in a situation where dental coverage lapsed for some Administrative reasons, not related to anything I did. I had an appointment scheduled prior to when the lapse occurred. They told me if I wanted it done, it would cost me X amount. I asked them what they would get paid by the insurance. I didn't really expect them to tell me, but they did and said the amount would be about a third of what they quoted me. I offered to pay them that same amount and they refused. "If that's all you would get from the insurance company, why can't I just pay that? You'll get the same amount, I'll get the same care." Again, they refused.

I cancelled the appointment and waited for coverage to be restored. I got the work done, they got paid the smaller amount by the insurance.

That right there is an example of what's wrong with our health care systems!!!!! So, I'll protect my assets the best I can.

 

[Fuddy1952]

Here's a strange thing I was thinking.
Growing up in farm grandparents lived next door, grandfather was a physician (long story short he was a machinist, then became mechanical engineer, then M.D., then D.O.- Osteopath and surgeon), I was with him when he passed (r.i.p.), in 1986...he was still working! Headed for office at 88 and was still charging $5 (that's five dollars) for an office visit! He was an extremely good doctor (many sources-other Drs&patients).
Point is he was in an old building and had antiquated equipment. He made house calls! Can you imagine that today.
Now doctors are in a fancy building with staff. You're lucky if you spend 5 minutes with him/her. They're usually on a computer nowadays.

 

[goeduck]

That right there is an example of what's wrong with our health care systems!!!!! So, I'll protect my assets the best I can.

Of the first approx $500,000 billed for my wifes cancer treatment, insurance paid about $125,000, we paid about $2000. Balance is $0. Go figure.

 

[ovrszd]

Of the first approx $500,000 billed for my wifes cancer treatment, insurance paid about $125,000, we paid about $2000. Balance is $0. Go figure.

My point exactly.

You reckon taxpayers picked up the balance?