Ground water heat pump?

[KYErik]

I have a 3 ton Water Furnace unit- installed 6 years ago it might be hair undersized because one July day, it was 95 humid degrees outside and with my wife cooking a big meal- it couldn't quite keep up.

Its a closed loop system with 1500 ft of line (750 feet of trenches) buried 4 feet deep.

My house is 1500 square feet, cape cod and is fairly well insulated.

I think the system was about $5K installed, but I had to run my own ductwork (its a new house)- they just drew the ductwork plans out for me.

 

[Dale Binkley]

Pennwalk: I live in Chester County (not terribly far from you). I had a ground source heat pump (WaterFurnace,closed loop system) installed almost 2 years ago. It replaced a 30 year old oil burner, a pellet stove and a 15 year old central AC system. Everything was still working but we decided to make a change before we got caught in a "have to" situation.

After 2 years I can say that I am very satisfied with this setup. The first year of operation I saved just over $1000 in total energy costs (electric, fuel oil and wood pellets). Our home is much more comfortable and my wife is happy. I got rid of the pellet stove we used to supplement the old heating system, capped off the chimney and stuffed some insulation up into the fire shelf area of the fireplace to try to keep any cold air from infiltraiting into the house.

I didn't shop a lot for price. I went with a local installer who uses good quality equipment and has a good reputation for backing up what he sells. I passed up on another local installer who sells bottom line equipment and cuts corners on his work - not worth the money I would "save".

I don't know much about how prices of units have changed over the last year or two but it is still worthwhile to look into this type of system from an efficiency standpoint.

 

[techman]

I heard my name mentioned! yes I stand guilty as accused.

I installed my system about 2 1/2 years ago and it has been working flawlessly since. As mentioned, ClimateMaster and WaterFurnace are the two top brands. Many of the same people involved in both, and they have similar performance, etc. savings are impressive, but be aware that the initial install cost will be high. I have installed both horizontal and vertical closed loop systems. if you don't have much land, you are locked into a vertical system with drilled boreholes. The drilling costs are about half of the total and can be 50%-100% higher than a horizontal (trench) system. I usually tell clients that you should not look at the absolute cost, but at the difference over a new high efficiency heating and cooling system as a comparison. It will be approx 50% over a 16 SEER heat pump, equivalent in size, but you will be at 27 SEER, more reliable, quieter and have a system that will last much longer.

Here is a link to my thread about my own project:
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/rural-living/74680-geothermal-heat-pump-project.html

paul

 

[CinderSchnauzer]

Here is a site with info that might be helpful:

NORDIC

 

[Sigarms]

It will be approx 50% over a 16 SEER heat pump, equivalent in size, but you will be at 27 SEER, more reliable, quieter and have a system that will last much longer.http://

Personally, I think a geothermal system is the best way to go if you can afford it (which can include MANY factors that has nothing to do with the cost of the equipment itself). That said, I think it's a little unfair comparing the upfront cost of a geothermal system to a 16 SEER system. 16 SEER systems usually use a two stage compressor. ROI ("payback" as I tell people) going from 14 SEER to 16 SEER is minimal at best (over 15 year minimum usually). Problem for the homeowner is the upfront cost of the 16 SEER equipment is substantially higher (at least 35%) than a 14 SEER system (both being variable speed).

Now, if you want to install a 20 or 21 SEER conventional forced air system, just go with the Geothermal and don't even bother to look back.

 

[BobRip]

One of the big cost of Gerthermal is digging the trenches. If you can do this yourself, them it makes the whole system make more sense.

 

[techman]

16 SEER systems usually use a two stage compressor.

Now, if you want to install a 20 or 21 SEER conventional forced air system, just go with the Geothermal and don't even bother to look back.

Given that the best high SEER geo units also use 2 stage compressors, I finds that to compare a 27 SEER you should try to use the closest equivalent air based system, which today is a 16 SEER.

For most people, ROI on a geo system is over 10 years based on the cost of the install. As I had sail for a more realistic number base the ROI on the cost differential from as close-to-the-same conventional system. The numbers will look a lot more favorable. Likewise on new construction look at the difference between a geo and a more conventional heat-cooling system, rather than the absolute cost of the geo system by itself.

paul

 

[Tororider]

Has anyone thought used or thought about using a geothermal system in conjunction with radiant heating? I am at least a few years from building, more if the housing market in MI doesn't change and I could sell my house, but have been looking into it. Wondering if anyone else had done that?

 

[techman]

Has anyone thought used or thought about using a geothermal system in conjunction with radiant heating?

Radiant heat with geo is not that uncommon. I have installed a few systems. You use a water-water geo heat pump. Only trick is to design the radiant system for 120 deg F max. The other side is that you still need to install ducting for A/C. A water coil is used in the air handler for cooling.

paul

 

[schmism]

There are some other options other than huge trenches in the front/back yard for the heat pump.

Ive heard of dual wells, pump ground water up, circulate it and pump it back down into a second well a few feet away from the first. concerns about contaminating ground water are low as the system is seperate, and the well doesnt run dry because the 2 holes are so close they supply each other.

toss some loops out into a pond is the cheepest. (must spec size of pond to BTU/hr)

ive even heard of people useing a bypass meter on there water service. you use the existing municipal water pipes as your loop.