Ground Prep for SPring garden

[imported_Charliechan]

I recently scraped a couple inches of dirt/coastal bermuda off of my 100X100 spring garden with my box blade. I put the digging claws in the fully extended mode, hoping that they would simulate the action of a tiller. Although they did tear up some dirt, it didn't really give me the affect I was looking for. I'm trying to prep the soil, which is black, but gooey, like clay under the layer of topsoil. I might be able able to swing one implement so should I go for a plow, or invest in a tiller ? or is there some other device that will help prep the ground and make croprows ?

Any help appreciated.

CHarliechan
/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[Bird]

Maybe it depends on how much gardening you do, but the tiller was my most used implement, so I'd have to have one if I were going to do any gardening.

 

[imported_Charliechan]

That's what I thought, but unfortunately that's also the most expensive solution. At least at a glance. I guess I'll start looking for a cheap/used tiller in my area.

/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[Glenn9643]

Sounds like the soil is too wet to work. If you can squeeze a handful and it doesn't break apart readily it's too wet, and trying to tear it up will result in big clods that will remain hard for a long time. You can easily cause more damage than good in this situation. Wait until it's dry enough to work, but you could spread some organic matter over it any time. Then have the soil tested to see what you need. If it's stiff clay you probably need to add organic matter to help loosen it up. I understand that agricultural gypsum helps to loosen clay soils. I would try to spread something like that over it and disk it in after it's dry enough. Then you can throw up rows if you want with a cultivator frame and sweeps or disk hillers.

 

[imported_Charliechan]

very good insight, as a matter of fact, it had just rained several inches days before. I will give it a little drying out time and try again with the box blade to try to loosen it up and I have plenty of cow manure to add to it. Do I have to use dried cow manure, or can I pile in the wet stuff too ?

thanks again ! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[Bird]

I've had some experience with the clods Glenn mentioned from working the ground when it was too wet. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif But some years, you don't have much choice if you want to get a garden planted at the right time. The old dried cow manure is best, but when I first started my garden spot in the country, I tilled it in the Fall, then put a round bale of hay in the middle and let the neighbors cows in there to feed. When that bale was gone, we put out another one, just a little ways from the first one. So in the Spring, I had what was left of the hay, and what the cows had dropped, to till in. The only problem was that the hay had too much grass seed in it, so that first year, I fought the grass that was trying to grow in the garden.

 

[raynman]

Charliechan

The only bad thing about using cow manure is that with the high nitrogen it promotes weed growth.

There is a reason to let it sit, or so I have been told, just can't remember what it was /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

I have really heavy thick clay in my home area and the best thing I found for adding organic matter is grass clippings.

 

[EastTexFrank]

It sounds as if you have good ol' Texas black gumbo clay. It'll soak up water like a sponge during the wet season and dry and crack like cement during the summer. It's terrible stuff to try and make a garden out of but it is extremely fertile, it'll grow just about anything. However it does need lots of "loosening" up. Cow manure is good, horse manure is probably the best ammendment that I've found. If you use it straight from the "producer" it will contain lots of weed and grass seeds. That's why horse manure is probably better, they're usually kept stabled and fed high quality hay with less weeds. You can use it fresh because it's not too strong and it's great stuff. If you can compost it for a year, it's even better. The heat generated during composting will kill a lot of the weed seeds.
As for working it into the soil, I think a tiller is the way to go. You can use other tools to get the job done but a tiller would definitely be the best. Like Bird said, it'll end up being one of your more used impliments. Yea, they're not cheap but they aren't that much more expensive than one of the better, bigger walk behind tillers and they are a whole lot easier on a tired old body like mine.

 

[Taylortractornut]

Around here a used Grey market tiller with good tines runs about 250 to 300 dollars.

 

[PineRidge]

I agree with Taylortractornut if you are looking for a bargain on a tiller, plow, or disc check out some local auctions for used farm equipment. Our local auction here in Ohio is Roger's and I have seen usable implements sell very reasonable. They actually auction it all including tractors, wagons, dozer's, etc.

It's really a great way to spend a beautiful summer day. I almost always take a trailer with me, you never know when you're going to see something that you just gotta have. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[sweettractors]

I agree with the rest, a roto tiller would probably be the best--However--Lots of our customers purchase a used 2 bottom plow and new 6 ft lift disc harrow--$750-$800 range + $160 guestimate on shipping--This combo will achieve the desired results and you will have more versatility in your tool kit--Ken Sweet
Sweet Farm Equipment LLC *Over 1000 Pieces of new and used equipment*

 

[sl3uth]

Charliechan,

First, a little background: I have the same Texas black clay, and my garden was planned originally to be about the size of yours, but was whittled down to about 40'x70' for the time being. The costs of working/improving that much land were too great for us to begin gardening it all this year. If you have 3 years to wait and work the land with patience (versus money), then other ways might be a whole lot better. So for now, we will have a "smaller" garden and work the bigger area with patience.

I purchased a 60" tiller (See the end of this post for why) . For sake of the timing Bird talked about, I tried to till the clay when it was too wet. It clumped up very badly...to the point where my tractor couldn't handle the clay’s glue-like property.

Taking the road of persistence, I continued to till slightly deeper over the next few days as the clay at the top would dry out. Never breaking through the hardpan just a couple inches down, I bought a used sub-soiler to break it up. I would recommend trying to find either a sub-soiler or chisel plow if you face the same hardpan. It will keep the nutrients closer to the top while improving drainage. The sub-soiler broke up the clay to about 12".

I eventually got to the point where about 6" was tilled to the point where most clods were golf ball sized or less. Then (because we really wanted to start a garden this year), I purchased enough coarse, gritty sand and compost to spread about 3/4" and 2", respectively, across the whole garden.

That let me till as deep as my tiller would reach, and made the consistency of the soil much more conducive to plant growth. The sand will improve drainage and workability immediately, but my long-term plan is to use either limestone or gypsum to "fix" the clay for gardening (Get a soil test to figure out which is appropriate). This “fix” is worthy of a topic all on its own, and you should look over to the CountryByNet site for plenty of advice on it.

Also, I debated getting a tiller or getting a chisel plow and disk. The tiller was my choice because I didn’t have a big enough tractor to pull a heavy enough disk to do anything in my clay. If you have a tractor with the wherewithal to pull a chisel plow with 5 blades and a disks of 18” or greater through your clay at a pace of about 4 mph, I think the plow/disk combo could save you some cash in both the short term and long term. I’m no expert, but I would say you’d need at least 40 HP to do it…maybe less with 4 wheel drive.

Sorry for going on so long /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif , but I went through some similar debates. I hope it helps some.

Sam

 

[sl3uth]

Charliechan,

I just came across your post about your steering issues...sorry about that. But I also saw the model tractor you have. If I had that much power, I'd be using the plow/disk combo for sure.

Sam

 

[KiotiJohn]

while it's not the same kind of clay, my cousin has a lot of clay in his garden as well. He tries to let it dry some then uses disks and disk bedders to make his rows. Works great for him. He uses a N.Holland TC 30. John

 

[Slamfire]

I'm of the opinion that tillers break up the soil too much, and I use a plow and disk to make the seed beds. We do have one of the Mantis tillers that we use as a power hoe. It is pretty tough to get up to 4 mph in a garden, ours is 60'x70', so I just make more passes at different angles.

 

[RalphVa]

I've been posting in here with no replies to my asking about making raised rows. My approx. 25x75 garden down below has 14 raised rows. I'm currently scooping the 2-4" of good top soil that Isabel left me last fall from the walking paths to the mounded rows. Don't know of any way or preserving it by use of my garden plow.

The garden plow I used to plow the huge mat of fescue grass and to make the mounded rows is my Gravely rotary plow. Rototillers will generally emulsify the dirt and make it too fine to hold as much air as it should. Also, I don't know how you'd mound up the rows for drainage with them.

I'm taking an organic gardening class at UVa now and finished Master Gardening classes 2 years ago. I'm now learning about the line that most plows and tillers leave at the depth that they typically go and leave a compacted line in the soil through which most roots won't penetrate. One of the best tools to break this layer is one of those deep spade tools like guys pull behind crawler tractors. Some of these can go down 2 and 3 feet down and really give some depth to the soil.

For the upper soil layer, you need organic material to loosen it up, like composted cow manure, leaf mulch, sawdust & wood chips(add some N to this) and kitchen veggie/fruit scraps.

What I plan to do on my more mounded rows is to put newspaper or cardboard over them and then add 3 or 4" of straw. Saw this in a video of an organic garden in Europe.

It's better to chuck the tractor sometimes and get out there naked in the garden.

One of those rotary disks might make the mounded rows. My Gravely garden plow has 4 tiny plow sheaves that are rotated by the PTO. The shaft moves up and down freely, but with some pinned stops for how far down it can go, also set by the height of the wheels out front. It can be tilted as much as 30 degrees to the side or be straight up. They really ought to have these available for rear mount PTOs. With a long shaft, you could dig quite deep with these. Some use them to dig post holes with the longer shafts.

Ralph

 

[kensfarm]

"I've been posting in here with no replies to my asking about making raised rows. "

I have a 3pt potatoe hiller.. it has 4 disks in the front that piles the dirt into a hill.. behind it is a shaper that squares & levels the hill. I till first.. then run the hiller twice to really mound up the dirt.

Except for the corn that I plant w/ a 2row planter.. I raise all my veggies on these raised hills. Last year I used the FEL to spread & unroll 3 or 4 round bails of straw.. then took the tiller to it. W/ a lot of straw.. it took up to 3 passes w/ the tiller to get it mixed in good. It def. would have been better to spread it out in the fall and plow it under for the winter... but I had just bought the used 2 bottom plow last summer.. and didn't have it fixed up till the fall.

This past fall I plowed the whole garden under.. rain over it slightly w/ the tiller to level.. then planted rye for the cover for the winter. I've been looking to get a disk set for this spring.. it's more for larger grain fields I'm going to convert to pasture that are close to the barn & house.

 

[jimg]

Ive been pulling my raised beds by hand and would be most interested to find a hiller like yours. Where did you get it? My gaden is now something like 80x60 and getting the beds together in the spring is a huge job.

 

[RonR]

Hi Ralph,

Can you please post a photo or a link to a rotary plow? I can't visualize what they might look like, and don't know that I've ever seen one.

THANKS.

Ron

 

[Dave___in___CT]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( "I've been posting in here with no replies to my asking about making raised rows. "

I have a 3pt potatoe hiller.. it has 4 disks in the front that piles the dirt into a hill.. behind it is a shaper that squares & levels the hill. I till first.. then run the hiller twice to really mound up the dirt. )</font>


I'm interested in this too... pictures ? source ? cost new ?


Thanks,


Dave...