Dealer Grey Dealer in TX

[thegreatrandini]

I say its an old used tractor period... I met a guy who lives about a mile from me and he has a super nice 2310d. It is used not recon. It has leaks!!! My 2210 recon don't. I would probally trade him!!! Very nice "A" used tractor. low hrs pretty etc.... u just never know they are all gonna need a little wrenchin!!! I would like on of those Zenoh Kubotas recons that "v" tractors originate!! nice but standard tranny!! My deal is better....I would by one of those 20 hp jinmas for $3600.00 from farmking!!! great deal! All will need a little wrenchin!!!

 

[arthr31]

great, you crack me up. Thanks for the even perspective here... !! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[mark777]

Great,

I know that sometimes our opinions are coming from opposite directions...but I have to agree with your post. They are, indeed, all used tractors.

I am certainly no competitive threat to local dealers as I deal in a few at a time. I go through great pains to remove, disassemble (paint) any item that show signs of ware or is suspect of any future failure. Everything is measured, or bench tested. I will not go into great detail, but the painting process serves two primary purposes: One, of course is the finished presentation, and Two (most important to me) indicates any two mating machined surfaces - seals, flanges, gaskets and hydraulic surfaces, will almost immediately show a problem I may have missed. I have been very fortunate to correct very few mistakes before delivering a tractor to a customer.

They are used tractors.

This is a picture of a tractor I delivered yesterday.

Regards, Mark

 

[cfoxmd]

All of these discussions involve the fact that a grey Yanmars may be one of several different products. Used or reconditioned--common model or near orphan. A good remanufactured tractor may be as almost as good as new, but a poorly done tractor is worse than a well worn half-broken used tractor. There is no quality control currently on refurbishing. Some tell of "quality factories" other tell of horror stories of factories that mish-mash parts together. There are stories of some tractors with multiple issues which have been sold as factory re-manufactured.

This fact, superimposed on front yard dealers who have no support, and who may indicate some sort of warranty leads to un-informed buyers buying a tractor that they know has been used, but assume is in good to excellent condition and even has a "warranty".

When the tractor comes up with a problem(s) the buyer contacts the seller who first may give them the refurbisher who may try to help with parts (often used) and the seller often gives them a list of yanmar dealers for parts and service. Little does the buyer know that these other yanmar dealers who service and sell used or reconditioned yanmars are not authorized by yanmar and have no relationship with Yanmar USA or that front yard seller. Yanmar USA didn't issue the warranty (if the customer actually has one), and there is no allied dealer network who have a relationship with each other who issued a warranty. The dealers who offers service didn't profit from the sale and didn't issue the warranty. He finds himself with a customer who is already angry and who has a tractor of highly questionable or unknow quality. Furthermore, the customer thinks there is some sort of obligation by this dealer to fix their tractor--perhaps for free.

The dealer who services what he sells may try to help or may not want to get involved with part searches (for which he does not get paid and which may take alot of time), repairs for which there may be an argument over payment, and the potential minefield of repairs. The buyer is angry because he doesn't understand the market, has a (worthless or near worthless warranty) and was given names and numbers for service that don't want to help. Somehow the buyer isn't mad at the seller who he thinks gave him a good deal and probably told him upfront that he doesn't perform service. Furthemore the original seller gave him the names of dealers to perform the service he needs. In the buyer's mind, the problem is the dealers who provide service and won't honor the warranty.

The real problem is the uninformed buyer who doesn't understand the market. He buys a tractor and assumes a nationwide network of factory authorized dealers with a nationwide warranty. He receives a tractor of whatever quality and no method to service or fix problems. He either turns into a maechanic, sells his tractor, or stays angry.

From the delear's perspective (the ones who provide service), here is a customer, who already feels the dealer has an obligation for something free. The customer has an unknown quality of tractor and may have an orphan tractor or a true problem child that needs a complete tear down and rebuild. Maybe its a good tractor with a few problems, but its just best to not get involved. Send him to Yanmar USA's web site.

A truly odd market for a product. It's as if there were 3 different types of Honda automobiles. Older US Hondas, used foreign market hondas and remanufactured foreign market hondas. The foreign market hondas are not supported by Honda America and has few that want to fix them. Parts for foreign market ones may be hard to come by. Furthermore, the buyers don't know about the markets and conflicts arise.

 

[arthr31]

Mark, you rebuild to make beautiful tractors! Ever ship any to the NE?? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

cfoxmd: i dont know what kinda buyer buying a 20+ yr old tractor w/ 90 day warranty would expect manufactorer or dealer support. such a person is seriously mis-informed... the only person they should really be angry w/ is themselves... i for one will try & fix problems. when i cant, i'll pay. it's the cost of doin business ... -arthtr

 

[cfoxmd]

I agree. The buyers don't know or understand. But most people, if they make a mistake, will blame others, especially if they feel like they were lied too.

 

[mark777]

arthr31,

Thanks, and no I seldom load and deliver. In fact that was the furthest so far and was only 60 miles round trip. I did it as a favor as the buyer has a broken axle on his trailer. And I would bet my lunch he will use the FEL to make the repair /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

Mark

 

[fig]

arthr31,

Sorry for the problems you have had and I guess I didn't word everything quite right. Maybe b***** was a little strong, but I just remember some past threads where some of the dealers and posters alike were complaining about some customers. Customer would call want parts, were told they have them, but the tractor owner still complained about everything on this forum.

Keep in mind; I use words like some and most. Not all salesmen are bad. I am in sales so I can imagine what dealers deal with on a daily basis. I will not lie to sell something and I wish to be treated the same (will not happen in every case..I know). The particular business that I am in; I am asked frequently for refurals (sp?) and questioned about our company and I will gladly give that information.

I know that everyone that buys a tractor is not an expert or mechanic. I found this site a week after I purchased mine. While looking to purchase a tractor; I was not aware of the VN problems but I did know the Yanmar name. I nit picked, drove, and talked to the dealer I purchased from and felt that I got a good deal and good used tractor from a decent individual (hope that it lasts the rest of my life).

I just wanted to convey the importance of being educated about the purchase of tractors for individual use or resale (importer/dealer). Didn't mean to offend or belittle anyone.

Fig

 

[arthr31]

Hey Fig,
No problem, no harm or belittling taken /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
There's nothing like this topic to get people on this board talking, that's for sure!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Anyway, to all other readers here, I've decided to take another look at my tractor. Specifically, I'm going to contact vina to see if I can get some more specifics about my particular tractor. Which, either way, I'll post here. My tractor will be listed for sale in a week but I'll have nothing to replace it with... That said, if I can get to a point of confidence about the poor old guy, I'd prefer to keep it instead of start shopping for another used tractor (which continues to be in short supply around me..).

anyway, I'll report back anything I hear from my originating re-furb'er (nice word, huh?) /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Thanks. -art

 

[thegreatrandini]

Nice looking unit!!

 

[loaderbob]

LMTC,
You know I am the Rocky Balboa of Recons and defender of the Unbiased Tractor Universe. Lacing my boxing gloves is not the reason for the delay, but I have been spending some quality time with the family. Most importantly my 10 month old learned to crawl straight over the weekend which is a major accomplishments after 2 months of circles... If I knew fatherhood was so exhilarating I would have done it decades ago. Okay... Someone ring the bell... (Just Kidding)
<font color="blue"> how MANY tractors does your perspective cover at this point? More than a thousand? Over 3 years or more? Again, it is apparent to me that your intentions are good, and I do not at all question your integrity. I do question the depth and breadth of your perspective on this. </font>

My perspective with Grey Market Recons:
100s not 1000s
Years not Decades - I never claimed to be a Homestead or that I imported the 1st tractor from Japan into America.
Ford 8Ns - 15+years but that does not count except when it comes to my ability to rebuild carburetors while watching the news... and troubleshooting antique tractors that won't run after sitting outside for months...

<font color="blue"> Again, you make clear your limited exposure to this issue. This man threatened several of us--at least Brent and me from what I recall. I never used "anti-vietnam rhetoric"....though I do consistently rail against the VN recons, because we have seen/heard of an enormous amount of problems. We get the CALLS. So do Len, Ernie, and others here.</font>

<font color="black">I can only imagine how he felt as a 1st timer/ Recon supporter in these forums. Folks ain't been real friendly... My guess is people jumped all over him like they did me... Lucky for me I have a better command of the language and never get angry.
What you really want to know is how and what I know about Leon. </font> Have you met him in person?
I met him on a trip out to Dallas. He has an awesome original Martins Brothers chopper. English is alright, but he is not a real talker. He was friendly, and did not come at me with an axe. However, I do work with someone who knows him very well... They bass fish together(thats bonding in my book)... Legend has it that he is a master mechanic, and a low-key guy who is proud of his family and accomplishments(like most of us). I do understand that English can be a barrier. I cannot really tell you anymore other than he is passionate about his work and backs his tractors.
Now some questions for you...
<font color="purple"> How many recons have you ordered, sold and supported? From what sources?</font>
How many calls do you get a month? Send them my way...
If there are really hundreds of unhappy people from the thousands of tractors that are brought into US every year why have you not gone into the parts & repair business focusing on righting the recons?

There are thousands of recon tractors that come over every year. The difference is how we approach them at TBN. A person who has a problem in the forums, gets help. A person who says the word recon gets treated like they need to attend an AA meeting, then gets help.

<font color="green"> To incorporate VTHokie's idea I think we should add some features to the profiles.</font>
Used / RECON Used / New:
Hours since purchase:
Thoughts??? That would give us a good indication of what is going on. I have only seen a few posts here since I joined a few months back.

<font color="purple"> If the non-recon used tractors never have any problems why do you not offer a 1-year warranty? Forum members lead people to people that they are problem free.</font>

How many non-recon tractors do you import a year? Respectfully curious...

I will continue to contribute to the forums but I must admit the environment here for people that are happy with recons is not great. I joined TBN to learn, educate, and chat with other tractor enthuisiasts, not get picked on by like-minded dealers. I am an honest guy and do a great business, there is room in this world for all of us (at least until they sell Jinma tractors at Wal-Mart).

Ultimately all these tractors are used. The recon tractors I have sold and serviced meet all the specifications as promised. They had the right parts, seals, axles, and things were done right. I have contractors who tear them up and they take the beating.

So... I hope that answers your questions... I am not the Yoda of Grey Market Tractors, but I do plan on being the 1st Recon member on the TBN Jedi Council. I hope together, although we disagree, we can create a better, friendly environment, and focus more energy on helping people out.

Best Regards,
Bob