Great wire rope trick

[cityfarma]

The theoretical strength should be at least 2/3 since the load is shared by the other side of the loop. so 2/3 of the rope gets 1/2 of the load and 1/3 gets the other half. The wound and taped tail will allow the cut ends to carry some load.
Check out this link! Look for the Farmer's Eye Splice. They say it is full strength when 2 or more clamps are used.
http://www.worksafebc.com/publications/health_and_safety/by_topic/assets/pdf/splicing.pdf

I read the publication and refer to the following quotes from "The Farmer's Eye".

"The Farmer痴 Eye is mainly used in temporary or emergency situations where there will not be any excessive loadings.
Unless sufficient clamps are used, the Farmer痴 Eye is not as strong as a spliced eye.
If the Farmer痴 Eye is yarded backward through the brush it will generally pull
apart."

"The second illustration shows the Farmer痴 Eye, with the wrapped ends
clamped to the line. With two or more clamps attached, depending on the use, the eye will take as much stress as the line. The eye is not suitable for use where it will be dragged through the brush, because it will be torn apart."

This would suggest that my postulation of the splice as presented originally, was correct. ie, without clamps (or tails woven into the main rope), the splice is not as strong as the original rope.

Cityfarma

 

[barneyrb]

I still disagree. While I agree that the rope loop will not slip, the loop of rope is only 1/3 the strength of the main rope. Look at the "re weave the legs" picture. Wind the 2 strands down just short of the the main rope. Without winding the 2 strand tail around the 1 strand tail, the weakest point is the single strand adjacent to the main rope. Now wind the 1 and 2 strands together. If the single strand breaks, the remaining twisted tail will simply pull apart.

If you disagree, please explain where I am wrong.

Cityfarma

What you are hung up with on this photo series is he is using a 3 strand rope. Winch cable has either 7 or 9 strands. Your split on cable would be either 4-3 or 5-4. Go back and read carefully.

 

[cityfarma]

What you are hung up with on this photo series is he is using a 3 strand rope. Winch cable has either 7 or 9 strands. Your split on cable would be either 4-3 or 5-4. Go back and read carefully.

All this changes is the ratio of weakness. In the rope example, the ratio is 1/3 the strength. In your example it is 3/7 or 4/9. Even the example in The Farmer's Eye uses 3/4 split and says that without the clamps it is not as strong as the original cable.

Maybe you need to read the article carefully.

Cityfarma

 

[TwinWillows]

My dad taught me a wire rope splice called "Molly hogan". It's very similar to yours except the ends are wrapped back down around the rope below the eye. It's quick & easy to do. For seizing I've used rebar tie wire or a cable clamp.

 

[barneyrb]

All this changes is the ratio of weakness. In the rope example, the ratio is 1/3 the strength. In your example it is 3/7 or 4/9. Even the example in The Farmer's Eye uses 3/4 split and says that without the clamps it is not as strong as the original cable.

Maybe you need to read the article carefully.

Cityfarma

Ok, last post on this subject. When you build one of these loops, you will be pulling on ALL STRANDS and not splitting the load. The loop is made of the original material without cutting any strands or strength. It has pulled many trucks on our 2200 acres out of sticky Louisiana Gumbo mud with no breaks. Believe it or don't but it works.

 

[MJPetersen]

Barney you are right. The full cable in the loop carries the load. It has not been reduced to half or 3/7. The tail is simply there to provide extra friction to keep the ends from sliding apart. look at the middle pic of TwinWillow. Even though the two halves are separate they are still both there to support the load. I have used slings made in this very way for years.

BX24, Never thought your "simple" idea would be so controversial did you!!

Mike

 

[bx24]

BX24, Never thought your "simple" idea would be so controversial did you!!

Mike

MJ- Your right, I did not expect the controversy although sharing opinions and looking at things from different angles cannot help but improve one's perspective. I was going to say that this is what makes America great, but you being in Poland throws a wrench in that!

Cityfarma's questions are legitamite and all I can tell you is that from 10 years of abusing winch lines in most ways possible, these eyes have never failed me. Use it or don't use it .... but if any of you find this useful, please send me a dollar! (A guy's gotta eat .... right?)

 

[bx24]

My dad taught me a wire rope splice called "Molly hogan". It's very similar to yours except the ends are wrapped back down around the rope below the eye. It's quick & easy to do. For seizing I've used rebar tie wire or a cable clamp.

Very cool, I like how clean the finished product is

 

[txslowpoke]

On a mechanical splice or hand splice we will pull 2 or 3 strands(6x36 for example) and weave them back in on the bottom side of eye, be it thimble or standard eye application. The number of strands is dictated by the splicer . Both methods have been pull tested to 5 times the breaking strength of cable applied to and are approved industry wide.
Lets clear this up, yes you can cut cable by a hammer blow method, by torch or whatever. Cutting tails by torch seizes the ends, lessening the puncture wound possibilty yeilded by a hammer blow method.
I donot see the average joe puling off a handsplice without some training other the than the net. Soft rope as the given example in this post is pliable, easily handled, spread apart etc. Wire rope is not. Even at the given size of 1/2",it would be a bear for a rookie to splice in the field or shop. You have to twist the strands "open" to weave them.
If you use wire rope clips, just remeber never "saddle a dead horse"
Ubolt side ALWAYS goes over the tail.

For those under the impression 1 man can splice an eye into 2" wire rope,
you just won the stupid award is all I can say.

 

[txslowpoke]

bx24 you are sending out wrong info that will get someone hurt. LIKE it or NOT thats a fact. IF you have experience with wire rope you say you have why do you want to post this? add to it?
You have played the odds an won on your duct tape thing. I feel very strongly about this as Ihave seen the pics of what happens when wire rope breaks and people LOSE in that equation.
I am done on this post. like I said before wire rope will kill you, its no joke.

 

[atgreene]

bx, thanks for the trick.

If anyone doesn't have enough common sence to comprehend what is safe and what is beyond their meger ability they should stay in their office cubicle.

Equipment is dangerous, if you don't have a grasp of physics, strength of materials and common sence than perhaps tractors, farms and the outdoors are not for you.

 

[bx24]

bx24 you are sending out wrong info that will get someone hurt. LIKE it or NOT thats a fact. IF you have experience with wire rope you say you have why do you want to post this? add to it?
You have played the odds an won on your duct tape thing. I feel very strongly about this as I have seen the pics of what happens when wire rope breaks and people LOSE in that equation.
I am done on this post. like I said before wire rope will kill you, its no joke.

Upon txslowpoke advice, please ignore this post and all information contained within. May I also recommend to be safe that you stay away from any motorized equipment because if used improperly, injury or death could result.

I think both the facts and and plenty of opinions have been effectively expressed and the readers can decide for themselves. If you ever need to pull or lift anything, I would suggest that you take time to research the proper safe behaviors. Don't get lax, I can guarantee thats when accidents will happen. Caveat Emptor! (Let the buyer beware)

One last thing, since this post has gone so well, I wanted to give you folks a sneak peek at the next thing that I am going to encourage all of you to build ..... I feel that this one will not draw as much controversy

YouTube - WORLDS FASTEST LOGSPLITTER

I am still OK with accepting dollars!

 

[kidr]

I am still OK with accepting dollars![/QUOTE]

 

[sandman2234]

Just thought I would throw my two cents into this pile of change.
I worked in a wire mill, for just over 15 years, and about 7 of that was in the Quality Control Department. We got in and out of the Wire Rope business a couple of times during my QC days. I would not attempt to test that original loop splice as it was done, because it would probably be a waste of my time to set it up. However, for general work around my house, I might throw something like that together just to pull something out of the weeds, etc. My opinion is that loop will not stand 100% of the rating of the cable it is being used on. Will it hold enough for what you want to do with it, that is up to you to decide, but no way am I going to splice it like that.
That is a good idea, fast and easy for loops that need to hold partial loads, but that loop won't be the one to use under 100 % loads.
Back to my soapbox.
David from jax

 

[BigE_]

BX24,

Thanks for the great tip. Those of us who have studied and understand physics (friction and mechanical advantage) can understand how your system works.

No, I'm not going to drag out the equations and formulas to prove why and how it works.

Those who don't understand it don't have to use it, plain and simple. Yes, if done improperly, it can be dangerous. Life can be dangerous...

I, for one, appreciate you sharing and encourage you to do so again. If you had a paypal account, I'd ship you the $1.

Regards,
-Steve

 

[Dunham Farm]

Think about how a ski lift cable is tied together. I worked at 2 ski areas and helped put a few together. each strand is spaced out over many feet.
Brian

 

[cityfarma]

BX24,

Those of us who have studied and understand physics (friction and mechanical advantage) can understand how your system works.

I thought I understood physics and friction. I am obviously wrong as I still think the loop is far less than 100%.


Cityfarma

 

[jsborn]

I thought I understood physics and friction. I am obviously wrong as I still think the loop is far less than 100%.


Cityfarma

And I am going to get the last word in or take my ball and go home.

Guys I don't know if you relise it but there have beeen a lot of good people driven away from this forum because some people can't just express their opinion and let it go. Opinion's are just what they are and we should all be a little more open to others . We don't have to agree but when it get to name calling and put downs thats too much GROW UP.

Now you all can flame me.

 

[EdKing]

One last thing, since this post has gone so well, I wanted to give you folks a sneak peek at the next thing that I am going to encourage all of you to build ..... I feel that this one will not draw as much controversy

I don't really have a comment on the splice, but that log splitter looks pretty scary to me. :0

 

[SPYDERLK]

And I am going to get the last word in or take my ball and go home.

Guys I don't know if you relise it but there have beeen a lot of good people driven away from this forum because some people can't just express their opinion and let it go. Opinion's are just what they are and we should all be a little more open to others . We don't have to agree but when it get to name calling and put downs thats too much GROW UP.

Now you all can flame me.

My opinion is that the facts are correct - loads are shared by the strands carrying the load.
In a loop there are twice as many strands, therefore the potential to be twice as strong as the rope. Since, even in an extremely well done loop, the strands dont share perfectly equally you will not get 2X....... Maybe 1.9X in a good one. The thing is there is a lot of surplus to play with. Even a verrry bad one will give 1.2X as long as the dead end is controlled enuf to prevent slip and you dont damage the live side in some way. Thats an experience or common sense thing that is preassumed of the user.
larry