Grapple Grapple on a Kubota B2920

[TXwoods]

I want to get a grapple for my 1.5 year old, 300 hours Kubota B2920. I have made a tentative plan and would like to have it checked. I'm hoping for and am open to all comments, advice, criticisms, alternatives, corrections on any part of the plan big or small. For me, this is a very large expense and I want to spend the money as wisely and effectively as possible.

I apologize for the length of this post. I tried to break it up but found that each aspect interacts with the others, that consideration of one necessitated consideration of all.

I discovered grapples about a year ago on TractorByNet and YouTube while exploring the new-to-me wondrous world of implements. I quickly saw that a grapple was the tool I needed for my work in our woods - clearing trails, digging roots, and moving brush into piles. But was my B2920 big enough to make good use of a grapple? IslandTractor and others have convinced me that it is strong enough for a small grapple and that I didn't really need one bigger than 48" anyway.

What type grapple? For my purposes, it looks like a bucket-style root grapple is the right choice, for example, the WR Long OBG2. I set out to find out what small grapples are available and how they compare on cost and weight. A search turned up the following:

• Wildkat 48" Mini Econo Grapple - 420 lbs - $900
• Titan 48" LW Root Grapple - 500 lbs - $920
• Gator 48" Light Duty Root Grapple - 385 lbs - $???
• WR Long OBG2 48" - 357 lbs - $1415
• Michigan Iron Hound Dog QAG-48-S 48" - 350 lbs - $1445

I read about people who'd had good luck with each of these and a few who'd had bad luck with some of them. For example, I saw pictures of the Wildcat structural failure from a while ago. Maybe they've fixed that now. With the price going from around $500 to $900, I hope so. I also saw many people say one can't go wrong with a WR Long.

For my plan, I've chosen the WR Long OBG2 48".

Next, I needed to figure out how to attach the grapple to my Kubota LA 364 FEL. First, some tractor and FEL specs.

• Tractor: Kubota B2920
• HP: 29 hp
• FEL: Kubota LA 364
• Capacity at pins: 952 lbs
• Hydraulic FEL flow: 4.7 gpm
• Hydraulic pressure: 2000 psi
• Hydraulic type: Open circuit

I think I have three choices - pin-on, Kubota B1658 Quick Coupler, and Skid Steer adaptor. I want to continue to use my bucket and in the future, perhaps get other FEL implements such as forks. I figure I'll be changing between grapple and bucket once or twice a week. So, ease of use, added weight, implement modification, implement potential, and cost all come into play.

To test the pin-on method, I took my bucket off and put it back on. My pins have grease fittings on one end and through bolts to hold them in place on the other end. Off was relatively easy. On was not. Lining up the pin holes and the bolt holes at the same time was a bear.

Though it's the cheapest, lightest, and no implement modification, I'm passing on the pin-on method.

Between the Kubota Quick Coupler and a Skid Steer adaptor, they appear to be about the same on ease of use. The Quick Coupler is much lighter with less increase in distance from pins to implement so will use up less of my lift, requires no modification of my bucket, WR Long will put LA 364 brackets on the grapple, and costs less. A Skid Steer adaptor makes the world of SS implements available. Humm..., that's both a good thing and a bad thing.

It wasn't easy to find small grapples but it was even harder to find Skid Steer adaptors and nearly impossible to tell from web sites if they could have LA 364 brackets. Also, forum posts indicated that some of those I found aren't available any more.

• Kubota B1658 Quick Coupler - maybe 40 lbs? - $279

• Hayspear QA-8297 - 145 lbs - $525
• Skid Steer Solutions UA-30 - 104 lbs - $495
• Aldomi QA-8297 Universal Adapter (same as Hayspear?)
• ATI Tach-All Quick Attach

• SS mount plate - 60 lbs or so - $100-$200

I'm leaning toward the Kubota B1658 Quick Coupler.

Hydraulics, the hardest for me to learn. After many hours of study, I think I have the basic ideas - open and closed circuits, power beyond, spools, valve types, couplers - but I still have a lot to learn. To work the grapple, I believe there are two basic systems, true 3rd function and diverter. A true 3rd function makes grapple opening/closing independent of the other two bucket functions while a diverter system shares one of the bucket functions and the operator chooses with a switch which to use at a given time.

WR Long offers both types and the true 3rd function is only $60 more than the diverter. Also, WR Long has a true 3rd function model for my tractor but not a diverter model. It operates with a 3-way switch that's mounted on the loader handle.

• Numerous valve kits - $800-$1000
• WR Long Electric over Hydraulic Valve Kit - $645

The WR Long 3rd function looks like a clear choice to me.

Should I get a grapple?
If so, which one? Did I miss some choices?
How should I attach the grapple to my FEL?
What's the best system to control the grapple hydraulics?
I've left out shipping costs. Any suggestions there?

Any and all comments are welcome and appreciated.

 

[Stick895]

Sounds like you already know the answers: Grapple - yes; WRLong OB2; Quickconnect and WRLong 3rd function. Dont worry about what you missed.

 

[Burtonbr]

Before finding TBN I didn't know there was such a think as a grapple and after reading about grapples here on TBN I knew I wanted one too. For me in was a luxury option, I haven't found many thing I could have done without one but it sure does make getting things done easier not having to get on and off to chain logs and things to the bucket to carry and load, the best use and what i really wanted one for is cleaning up brush and it makes that job quick and easy.
I was very surprised at how much I can actually lift and haul with the grapple, Huge piles of brush, which don't weigh much but much more volume than without it, and I've picked up logs larger than I thought it would be able to lift or felt comfortable with moving as a whole tree, these little machines can do a lot more than I thought mine would at first.
Keeping it light is important I think, so I chose to add one to my bucket, I liked the way the W.R. long add on grapple mounted so I did mine very similar so that if I need to do something different later on I can remove it if I need to but I doubt I ever will after having it for a couple months now. I hope to do what your thinking also and have one of the quick attach adapters and be able to mount my THUMB grapple to a set of lightweight forks and switch back and forth when needed. The Pin on adapter will be the easiest and cheapest but haven't ordered it yet.
one option you didn't mention is the Thumb from Greens-Machine, they are about $400 but you have to adapt a way to attach to your bucket, this is how I did mine. I run the hydraulics from my rear remotes but plan on switching it to a diverter soon to free up the rear remotes.



I think you'll love having the grapple no matter which one you choose. I sure do !!

You could save a little on the third function with one of these diverters and plumbing and wiring it yourself
https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?Item=9-7852

http://baileynet.com/hydraulics/sol...age=ProductDetails&line=SVCC&baileyno=220-934

 

[TXwoods]

Stick895, thank you for the encouragement.

 

[Dingo Man]

TXwoods you obviously did some intense research. You ended up choosing the OBG2 which are well made but high in price. You mentioned this would be a big purchase for you, so you would want to get the best bang for your buck. I would suggest looking at the cheaper ones. The design of a grapple can only be tweaked so much. There probably is not much difference between the $1500 grapple and the $1000 grapple so why not go with the cheaper one.

Also if cost is really important as well as weight I agree in looking at the bolt on thumbs as mentioned above. If you want another grapple option also look at North American Implement s. I just ordered their 48" LD grapple. They will also make to order, they added two additional bottom tines for me since their stock 48" only comes with 5. Good luck. You mentioned reading Island Tractor's posts, just keep that up and you will be steered in the right direction.

 

[cal2620]

Txwoods I put the W.R.Long obg2 48" grapple on my b2620tlb with the Kubota quick attach and the W.R.Long true third function valve kit. I use my grapple for moving brush and logs most of the time. W.R.Long is a great company to work with and is willing help you in any way they can. Here is some pic of my grapple in uses.cal2620.

 

[94BULLITT]

For hooking up to the grapple a pin on set up would be a pain. You should go with some type of quick coupler. SSQA would really open up some options for you for future attachments but it may be to heavy for your tractor.

A 3rd function is the best way to operate a grapple. You did not ask it but I like flush face connector on the hoses because they don't make much of a mess when you unhook them.

Another option on the grapple is the EA Wicked Grapple. It is very heavy duty but yet light weight.

Everything Attachments Wicked Root Grapple for Compact Tractors

 

[TXwoods]

Burtonbr, wow, that's a mean looking attachment - just what a grapple should look like. That's quite a sight on the familiar-to-me, otherwise innocent looking LA 364 with bucket. I can see that it would do the job of moving brush. Currently, I snake a chain or 2 under the brush pile and hook them to my bucket. I get what I think are huge piles and it's a tremendous improvement over picking up brush by hand and loading into a wagon. However, your Thumb would be a big improvement over my chain method. Crawling around on the ground working chains with snakes, scorpions, giant centipedes, and fire ants is not fun.



How did you decide on the Greens-Machine grapple over the WR Long or any other?

For quick attachment, are you thinking of getting the Kubota B1658 Quick Coupler?

Please tell my about your rear remotes. I'm just now learning hydraulics and am anxious to know what I can do on in that arena on my Kubota B20 series. Are your rear remotes what one would use for 3 point hitch top and tilt (hydraulic 3PT adjustment)?

I'm with you - amazed at what a tractor can do. I had zero experience with tractors till I got mine a year and a half ago. I use it most every day and still marvel at the end of each session at what it did.

It was great to see someone with a tractor the same as mine having good luck with a grapple. Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[TXwoods]

Dingo Man, I definitely am conflicted on grapple price vs confidence. I'd like to get a $1000 grapple but don't want a broken top bar like I saw in pictures of some Wildkats on TBN. I'm leaning toward WR Long because of reputation.

Since seeing Burtonbr's pictures and comments on the bolt on thumb type grapple, I'm now studying those. Looks like they'll do the brush moving job but not the root digging. I wonder if a bucket with a tooth bar can dig roots like a root grapple can.

I did look at North American Implements - the Gator 48" Light Duty Root Grapple is a product of theirs. Is that the one you just ordered? Did you order directly from NAI? What was their price? How much for shipping? Maine looks about the same distance from NC as Texas.

Thanks for your ideas.

 

[TXwoods]

cal2620, another tractor like mine successfully using a grapple and it's the OBG2 as well! And the Kubota Quick Coupler and the WR Long 3rd function kit. I'm now totally encouraged about the practicality of a grapple on my tractor. I already knew it could do work I needed done if only it would work on my B2920 and now I know it will. Plus, you have verified my entire plan. Thanks so much.

To all readers, despite what I just said, I'm still fully open to all comments. I have not made up my mind on which brands or types to buy. I've only made up my mind that I'm going to do it.

 

[TXwoods]

94BULLITT, you're right. I've been grappling with the SSQA dilemma since early in my quest. I very much value the option of future SS attachments but I worry that the extra 200 lbs or so might negate the usefulness of the grapple. I need all the advice I can get on this question.

I didn't ask about flush face connectors because I'm not even familiar with the term. Just started from zero to learn tractor hydraulics. I'll be sure to check on that when the time comes to order.

Thank you for reminding me about the EA grapple. I've watched most of Ted's videos and when I started my grapple search, I started with his new in-house product, the ETA-WRG-CMP54 at 349 lbs for $1860. Along the way, I moved away from Wicked by three things. First, I had difficulty connecting with EA (I only have e-mail) and when I did, the feedback fell well short of the questions I asked. Second, I became convinced that the narrowest grapples, the 48" ones, were the best for my tractor and the Wicked is 54". Third, most of the grapple talk I found was from the mid 2000s when Millonzi was in business and prices were $500 or $600.

Now that I've been reset to 2013 prices and am favoring a $1415 product, I should take a fresh look at the Wicked. I'm right on the edge of EA's free shipping zone so if I can get that, it would cut the price difference about in half. And 3" on each end isn't a whole lot more. Plus the weight of the Wicked is 8 lbs less.

Valuable thoughts. Thank you again.

 

[rbtjr]

TXwoods, I have a Kubota L3800 with both a Wildkat 48"economy grapple and a WR Long OBG2 56"grapple. We had a stand of pines thinned last fall. I was anxious to get started with some debris clean-up. After much research on TBN and elsewhere, I decided on and ordered the WR Long OBG2. It was backordered. The Wildkat factory is about 60 miles from me, so I decided to buy the Wildkat 48, use it until the OBG2 came in, see which one I liked the best, and sell the other one. I like them both so much that I dedicated some of the timber money and am keeping them both. If I had to pick one, it would be the OBG2. It is sturdier and very well built. It has zerks for lubing. Etc. However, the Wildkat is marginally better for clearing new ground and picking up small loose debris. The reason is that the little spades at the front of the tines join in the rear (i.e., at the wide end of the spades). In my opinion, the effect of this is to do a little better job of grubbing out small roots and such. I had read about the square tube at the top of the Wildkat being weak because it was only 1/8" thick. Before I bought the Wildkat I called and asked specifically about this, and I was told that they had changed to 1/4" tubing. I asked a second time and was told the same thing. However, I have since read on TBN that Wildkat still uses 1/8" tubing, and I can't tell whether or not the tubing on my unit is in fact 1/4". All things considered, if I had to pick one, it would be the OBG2. As to taking the grapples off and on, my loader came with the SSQA system, and it works fine with my loader bucket and both grapples. As to the hydraulics set-up, I have the WR Long 3d function arrangement and I really like it. Hope this helps.

 

[NHbotanut]

TXwoods,

Your 2920 is a little bigger than my 7610. I have the WR Long RBG2-48 with thier electric valve kit with the rocker switch mounted on the joystick.

I love it and wouldn't trade it for anything. It has done everything I have asked it to do and more. I find it great to move and stack logs, rocks and brush. My 7610 does not have the SSQA system, so I have to put in and remove the 4 pins. It is a pain sometimes, as it can be as fast as a couple minutes to hook up, or as long as 10. Depends on where I have it stored. My long range plan is to convert over to the SSQA.

 

[Burtonbr]

NHbotanut, That is a huge log your moving there, it is amazing at what can be done with these machines.

This has turned into a great discussion about grapples and options for the Bxx20 tractors, I like seeing all the real experiences of everyone to compare. I think everyone agrees you can't go wrong with any grapple attachment and it is handy for a lot of things.

TXwoods, that is a HUGE pile of brush and saplings, that is how I used to have to move brush, what a pain to get off and get a chain around the bucket and hooked, now my grapple probably wouldn't be able to handle that large of a pile but it sure would be easy to get it all moved in 2 trips without getting off and in the dirt.

When I was trying to decide on the grapple for me, the cost of a SSQA grapple and the loader adapter was way out of my budget, though I would still like to have both SSQA, pallet forks, root grapple and I think being able to mount this this thumb to a set of pallet forks would have a lot of uses too.

For the quick attachment I was just about ready to order the pin on B1658 when I read this thread on the new b2650/b3350 and the SSQA style QA that is available, a member, Jim_Wilson, has ordered one and I would like to hear his review before I decide. you can read about it HERE if you already haven't. That is out of my budget too but I sure would like to have a universal QA and not have to make pin on mounts for all the accessories I'd like to have.

I have a Hydraulic top cylinder on the 3 pt. and the thumb grapple on the other rear remote and it works real well for me though I am going to chage the grapple to a diverter soon Mostly because I think that is a better method than the hoses run all the way from the rear.
The rear remotes are available as a add on kit from Kubota but I didn't like the way they mounted and saw a few others that had made their own versions and with their help I was able to do it a little cheaper than the factory option. you can see some more info HERE and HERE

I didn't know squat about hydraulics before a few months ago and adding the remotes is not that difficult once you figure out how the system works it is very simple actually.

Good luck on your search for the grapple that will suit you, I know no matter which you decide on you will wonder how you ever did without it.

 

[Dingo Man]

Dingo Man, I definitely am conflicted on grapple price vs confidence. I'd like to get a $1000 grapple but don't want a broken top bar like I saw in pictures of some Wildkats on TBN. I'm leaning toward WR Long because of reputation.

Since seeing Burtonbr's pictures and comments on the bolt on thumb type grapple, I'm now studying those. Looks like they'll do the brush moving job but not the root digging. I wonder if a bucket with a tooth bar can dig roots like a root grapple can.

I did look at North American Implements - the Gator 48" Light Duty Root Grapple is a product of theirs. Is that the one you just ordered? Did you order directly from NAI? What was their price? How much for shipping? Maine looks about the same distance from NC as Texas.

Thanks for your ideas.

To be honest I thought Gator went out of business and I was under the impression NAI took over. They are probably one in the same. I order the 48"LD root grapple with two extra bottom tines direct from NAI. Their sales rep "Stella" is very nice to deal with. She quoted me $1016 for the grapple. $145 to ship to a dealer and $230 to ship to a residence.

You may want to give Wildkat a call they seemed to be confused what material they are acutally using on their units. I was told 1/8" tubing but others on here were told 1/4". It is very possible the lady I spoke with was not familiar with exactly what I was asking.