Grade 8 shear bolt confirmed!

   / Grade 8 shear bolt confirmed! #41  
Nomad,
It is evident that you are coping a King Kutter brush hog by your picture. If so there are over 100,000 King Kutter brush hogs running now in the USA. Don't you think KK has settled the shear-pin question. The shear pin is and easy question to answer. Also in your picture you have your copy of the KK assembled incorrect. What about the gearbox? What standards are you using? Where did you get your data to enter in your computer test model? Is there a computer testing model or are you blowing? The MFG may be the best in the world but if your design is flawed and your computer data is flawed, what out come do you think you will have when the customer tries to use it?
nopity.gif
 
   / Grade 8 shear bolt confirmed! #42  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Most of their design work is done on the computers (big computers) by simulating them on the computer screens. You can play with many parameters there on the computers, but you can not make many plane destruction tests which will cost you a lot )</font>
Do you realize that 1) The design cycle for an aircraft is years and takes hundreds of engineers and 2) they do destructive tests also. They also put prototypes through extensive and rigorous tests to prove the design. They do not rely on the computers either. Very few other industries devote anywhere close to the same amount of resources to bring a product to market that the aerospace industry does.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Lets consider the stress distribution in a mower in operation is S )</font> Bla, bla, bla, </font><font color="blue" class="small">( 362880 real world tests? None of them )</font>
You obviously are not involved in actual product design. When I talk about parameters, I mean it must be X long, Y wide, and no taller than Z. It must do whatever while complying with this set of regulations. It must do this a minimum of N times in these environmental conditions. And so on. We take these input and start using them to develop a design. We will use computer models to check areas we are concerned will experience high stress locations or where we think that we can remove excess material. We set the contraints as close to the real world loading as possible. Sometimes we will go through this process a few times. We then have the prototypes built and do actual physical tests on them. That's the way it's done and it works.
Listen we've beat this dead horse, I've tried to explain how we, actual design engineers and manufacturing companies, design things. Whether you think it's "ideal" or not really doesn't matter. This isn't a cultural differance but more a "theoretical" vs "practical" issue. Lots of ideas are great in theory and simply just don't work in practice.
 
   / Grade 8 shear bolt confirmed! #43  
GEEZ!!!! Is this thing getting tedious, or what? Whatever happened to the grade 8 shear bolt? It's time some moderator put this thing out of it's misery.
 
   / Grade 8 shear bolt confirmed! #44  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( This isn't a cultural differance but more a "theoretical" vs "practical" issue. Lots of ideas are great in theory and simply just don't work in practice. )</font>

Yes. And the difference is in our understandings (of engineering.) No problem. Engineers have been discussing these since 16th century when the apple hit on his head of Newton. A side info here: Newton is known more about his F=MxA or F=MxG (where G is gravitational acceleration), but he is less known by "engineers" that he was the first person who introduced "differential formulations." Since this day, engineers are divided into two groups; one of these groups have always considered differential formulations in engineering as "theory" while they have considered F=MxA like a "practical engineering." Both of them are wrong. Engineering itself is an application or "practical" whatever mathematical system you use. So, you consider some mathematical games as theories, but you use them (directly or indirectly) during the design process whether you are aware of it or not. So, we differ here in understanding of engineering. Some other people maybe didn't understand what I meant. Let me make it clearer. Take electrical engineering a kind of engineering playing with the "field laws" or "the energy waves" more than other engineering fields. They frequently use an imaginary number marked "i" (its multiplication by itself is -1, minus 1.) There is no such a real number like "i" in the world, hence it's called "i". Now, the question is that is this number used in practical engineering or in theoretical engineering? Characterizing somethings (parameters and their relations) by some symbols like X, Y, S, S=f(...), Log. Sinus, etc etc isn't a theoretical engineering, but only a game of shortening the talks with less number of characters.

Ps: To me, all science is a practical engineering except (1) Mass&Energy Conservation Laws and (2) Einstein's MxC^2 Energy-Mass relations. Only these two laws; (1) and (2) aren't in engineering field because they can not be proved in the real world (because they are thoughts in the minds.)

Now, as for your practical designing (whatever this is) to determine that X long, Y wide and Z height; Well, to determine them, you are actually calculating the stress distribution behind the scenes. But it's only a geometric design such as placing the goods in a room optimally, then I understand. But this work "usually" doesn't require an engineer.

Ps: CCI, I'll answer your questions only when I find $1541 that I lost a month ago or two. With this $1541, I'll set up an experimental system to develop a shear pin model made of aluminum so that farmers over there will not be breaking many pins anymore. If they are still breaking many pins, there must be a problem. No? By the way, I'll use the slip clutch in my cutter. But I said this before? Yes.
 
   / Grade 8 shear bolt confirmed! #45  
You can not lose what you never had possession of. You need to eat some more of Newton's apples and understand reality of market demands. Turkey is not the market you want to sell in. You must understand the USA laws, demands and culture. Since I know you are also a rugman and sell rugs in the USA, the facts are rotary cutters are not rugs. Eat more apples, Erol Abit
 
   / Grade 8 shear bolt confirmed! #46  
Egon,
Judging from this thread, I would say use the tried and true method of trial and error for selecting your shear bolt. This thread might last till next years harvest /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
   / Grade 8 shear bolt confirmed! #47  
Yes, Trial & Error method which too has an Error in it like any other method has. As long as it costs little, then I say, go for the shear pin clutch. I'll use the slip clutch for my own cutter as the cost difference isn't big here. Thanks for the discussion. Lets move into detail talk of another subject. EOD.
 
   / Grade 8 shear bolt confirmed! #48  
What is the significance of the $1541 that you mention above?? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
   / Grade 8 shear bolt confirmed!
  • Thread Starter
#49  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( GEEZ!!!! Is this thing getting tedious, or what? Whatever happened to the grade 8 shear bolt? )</font>

I replaced it with a Gr 2 /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif. I thought it was a straight forward topic - just trying to call attention to a potentially damaging situation. This thread seemed to take on a life of its own!

Brad
 
   / Grade 8 shear bolt confirmed! #50  
Love those differential equations. Pick the right one and you can spend your whole life trying to work it out and then check out with nothing to show for a lifes labour.

Egon
 
   / Grade 8 shear bolt confirmed! #51  
I have looked for the shear properties of the different grade bolts per diameter without any definitive results. I work in a Material Test Lab. As time permits, I plan to do a shear load test on each of the following:
Grade 2, 5, and 8; in diameters of 3/16, 1/4, and 5/16.

If anyone is interested in the results "FOR REFERENCE ONLY", I would be happy to post them when the test is completed.
 
   / Grade 8 shear bolt confirmed! #52  
If I bought a woods blower.. and it came with a grade 8 bolt.. and it broke a weld on the impellor due to their error.. i think I would be taking the unit back to get a new one...

Soundguy
 
   / Grade 8 shear bolt confirmed! #53  
I would also, but my friend just repaired it..... sometimes it is faster to do the repair and get it done with than to deal with a warranty claim that might take weeks to complete. In MA, you have to be prepared for snow at any time. Today it is 56 degrees out and last night it was 20 degrees...... wild temperature swings and you never know when it will snow....
 
   / Grade 8 shear bolt confirmed! #54  
As a comment towards the original topic before it jumped off the tracks....if you are experiencing a situation where the Grade 2 is almost, but not quite enough, try this. Instead of tightening the nut down until the lock washer engages, run a nut down until it just touches. Then run another nut down and jam them together to lock them in place. With the tension removed from the bolt and a little play available to the 2 shear points (assuming you have a crossbolt shearpin rather than an inline) you will possibly get a little more life from your shear bolts. Make sure to use the jam nut though or you will find your shearbolt sailing off into the sunset.
 
   / Grade 8 shear bolt confirmed! #55  
I would be very interested in your results. Do you plan to test just shear or shear in combination with tension? How will you factor the "double shear" resulting from the bolt extending through both sides of the yoke on either side of the shaft? We have ready access to the failure load for bolts in both tension and shear for "normal" bolted connections, but the situation presented by the typical shear bolt is quite different because of the many variables present.
 
   / Grade 8 shear bolt confirmed! #56  
It has become very obvious that we must select a committee to select the personel that will address the shear bolt dilema by setting up a task force to investigate the need for a committee to determine if more shear bolt research is needed.

Egon
 
   / Grade 8 shear bolt confirmed! #57  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( It has become very obvious that we must select a committee to select the personel that will address the shear bolt dilema by setting up a task force to investigate the need for a committee to determine if more shear bolt research is needed.)</font>

The head of that committee should be Nomad as he was the first who jumped off the track of original topic;-0?

Concerning shear bolt tests (combined of tension+shear or shear stress alone); Tests on standart Grade 2, 5 or 8 won't be helpful. Because the true problem here is "selection of GradeX" where X is unknown. Tests should be made on farmers' own systems (shaft+pto+etc) each of these systems is different from another farmer's. I mean tensile+shear forces on farmer's connections should be determined first before determining the bolt type/size. Having test/measurement results of tousands of these forces measured on the farmers' systems, and doing some statistical averaging analysis, average GradeX can be determined. Well, since test number will be a lot by such real field tests on farmers' systems the only logical way of doing such tests is let them farmers do themselves and this can be done with a special bolt standart test specimen which will be given within the implement box.

By the way, if you search the net, all data available for fasteners of Grade2, 5 and 8 and in any size.

Ps: I think this is the 1st post on TBN forum with a posting date of 2004. ;-0
 
   / Grade 8 shear bolt confirmed! #58  
"The first shall be last and the last shall be first" Just where were the words first spoken, Nomad?
 
   / Grade 8 shear bolt confirmed! #59  
Nope;

Re: Grade 8 shear bolt confirmed!
12/31/03 10:59 PM

Egon
 
   / Grade 8 shear bolt confirmed! #60  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Nope;

Re: Grade 8 shear bolt confirmed!
12/31/03 10:59 PM

Egon )</font>

Egon, what is this? I can't see any post at 10:59 PM of 12/31/03
 
 

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