Got asked to bid a very unusual project

[4570Man]

My first plan would be just leave it. The biggest danger would be eventually knocking the bridge down but that sounds like a bridge owner problem. If you actually did remove it I’d probably get an excavator and swamp mats. Just the transportation fees for the needed equipment will be high. Are their pockets deep enough or is this one of the times that the expectations and reality are a long was apart.

 

[4570Man]

Put in a temporary "floating barrier dam" to prevent dislodged debris from floating down river.

Rent a long arm boom excavator and proceed.

A long reach would be the ticket but you need a thumb to have any chance of getting the longs out not just dislodged. Finding a rental long reach with a thumb and close enough to reasonably transport would be extremely rare.

 

[paulsharvey]

Couple thoughts or observations; #1; are you allowed to work in the abandoned ROW? Rail roads typically take their property rights Very seriously. #2; assuming you want/get/take the job, I would try to winch individual pieces out, until the jab breaks up. I do think the crane would be the first choice, but I would worry about access. Maybe a Lull extendable off road forklift? Maybe with a claw on a chain, similar to what you use to move jersey barrier with a front-end loader?

 

[Hay Dude]

The logjam is within reach of an excavator boom? How deep is the river around it?

Otherwise I see a person on the pile attaching cables and a whole lot of winching. What harm is it causing - just aesthetics?

There’s 50’ of water and another 20’ of bank from where the machine sits. No boom can reach.

 

[Hay Dude]

We did some confined space training exercises lowering Public Works employees to the bottom of 50' deep sewer manholes to clear debris. See if your local swift water rescue team wants to do some dry suit training in body recovery. They could attach cables to the debris, and you could winch it in, as they look for the "victim". Of course, a sizable donation will help in their decision making.

Some of the debris is HUGE and quite water logged as you would suspect. If a log broke loose being towed by a raft, it could cause drowning or injury.
I think attaching a large object to a cable in strong water is dangerous. Even the crane with a grapple is scary

 

[Hay Dude]

Couple thoughts or observations; #1; are you allowed to work in the abandoned ROW? Rail roads typically take their property rights Very seriously. #2; assuming you want/get/take the job, I would try to winch individual pieces out, until the jab breaks up. I do think the crane would be the first choice, but I would worry about access. Maybe a Lull extendable off road forklift? Maybe with a claw on a chain, similar to what you use to move jersey barrier with a front-end loader?View attachment 848281

Not allowed to work of RR trestle bridge. It’s owned by the RR and they won’t allow it.
What is strange to me is that they would enforce this, yet not clean up the debris. I guess they aren’t required to?

 

[paulsharvey]

@Hay Dude what weapons do have available to work this with? A small dozer with a winch would work, if you can't get to the logs (scaffold boards from the bank to the logs maybe).

 

[Hay Dude]

My first plan would be just leave it. The biggest danger would be eventually knocking the bridge down but that sounds like a bridge owner problem. If you actually did remove it I’d probably get an excavator and swamp mats. Just the transportation fees for the needed equipment will be high. Are their pockets deep enough or is this one of the times that the expectations and reality are a long was apart.

They have deep pockets. They own the museum that the picture was taken from. They can’t leave it because the log jamb is causing a flooding problem to become worse. It’s obstructing water flow

 

[Hay Dude]

@Hay Dude what weapons do have available to work this with? A small dozer with a winch would work, if you can't get to the logs (scaffold boards from the bank to the logs maybe).

My idea from the “swampy” side (right side in the picture) would be to use a dozer & winch, but who the hell would be able to wrap the winch cable around logs under water with the pressure of all that water against them? It would be a suicide mission.

 

[paulsharvey]

Something like this Lull 1044-54 is a 10k lift capacity, and has "54 ft reach" but thats not Really the true story. It had 54 ft of vertical reach, probably less than 40 ft max extention forward of the outriggers, and to top that off, I'll bet it's under 800 lbs lift capacity at max extension forward...

A medium track hoe (PC-80-120), and two crane mats might work to get out there, but not really sure. I doubt a job like this pays nearly enough to justify a long reach hoe rental, even if they are available near you...

 

[Hay Dude]

Put in a temporary "floating barrier dam" to prevent dislodged debris from floating down river.

Rent a long arm boom excavator and proceed.

Long boom excavator is like 20-25’ rreach. This is like 50‘ or water and 20’ of river bank. It can’t be done safely, or really at all with a fixed boom. Much too far of a reach.
I’m picturing an old school crane with some king of toothed grapple bucket.

 

[paulsharvey]

Know any local loggers who would take hired work with a foresty loader/knuckle boom?

Or a dock builder who has a powered barge boat with a 5k crane? I know pictures can't show dimensions well, but it looks like it would be very difficult to get even a 24 ftx12 barge in there.

 

[Gee Ray]

You might look into a floating excavator. Put a barrier below the jam, and then place the floating excavator up river and disassemble the mess. You might have to pick up some of the stuff places on the barge and then pull the barge over to the shore so that you could transfer the material to a truck.

You might look into a dock builder, who would have the equipment to work off of. Here in Florida it is common to find that type of equipment but I don’t know your neighborhood.

 

[Hay Dude]

I know a smaller crane company owner. I think he’d take the work, but I don't think he has the right “attachment” for the crane. We shall see.

 

[4570Man]

Long boom excavator is like 20-25’ rreach. This is like 50‘ or water and 20’ of river bank. It can’t be done safely, or really at all with a fixed boom. Much too far of a reach.
I’m picturing an old school crane with some king of toothed grapple bucket.

A long boom excavator that they use for dredging can reach upward of 60’. But they almost always just have a smooth bucket. You’d have to have a thumb to do any good.

 

[paulsharvey]

I know a smaller crane company owner. I think he’d take the work, but I don't think he has the right “attachment” for the crane. We shall see.

Is the log pile stable enough for a (safely tied off, and wearing PFD) person to stand out there and tie the logs individually off?

 

[Hay Dude]

Biggest issue would be “pulling the string that unravels the whole ball of yarn”.
Pull the wrong log early in the project, and the entire wad of logs could cut loose.

 

[Hay Dude]

Is the log pile stable enough for a (safely tied off, and wearing PFD) person to stand out there and tie the logs individually off?

No, and honestly that a suicide mission. I would never ask anyone to take that risk.

I’m crazy enough to do it though.

 

[2manyrocks]

Biggest issue would be “pulling the string that unravels the whole ball of yarn”.
Pull the wrong log early in the project, and the entire wad of logs could cut loose.

Looks like this would be the problem no matter how you try to do this. How could you ever figure out which ones to pull out and in what order? It's not like you can walk right up to the pile to inspect things. Would think the logs are interlocked some way under water.

I have no idea what the liability risks are for logs that float downstream or if Corp. of Engineer permits are needed.

 

[Hay Dude]

Looks like this would be the problem no matter how you try to do this. How could you ever figure out which ones to pull out and in what order? It's not like you can walk right up to the pile to inspect things. Would think the logs are interlocked some way under water.

I have no idea what the liability risks are for logs that float downstream or if Corp. of Engineer permits are needed.

Bingo
Then you end up downstream with logs ramming into someones bridge and do damage….
Bet that job requires 5 million in insurance minimum.

Wondered if I could get someone to operate a water rescue boat while I lean over and cut small pieces away one at a time with a chainsaw, so as not to create large floating battering rams downstream?