Gonna go after Kubota

[CDsdad]

Maka, I hope this makes you feel better.

I was in the dealership where I bought my tractor about 2 months ago. A guy was comparison shopping a Bushhog implement against a Landpride implement. The dealership we were in carries Bushhog, one 50 miles over carries Landpride. The salesman bashed LP and only gave 1 reason why he thought BH was better, and he had wrong info then. I had a nice drive on a pretty morning to get my new Landpride, and I told numnuts where I was going when I left his dealership. I'm not saying I think LP is better than BH, I just didn't need his BS.

Take the high road, don't argue with him. Most folks have sense enough to judge quality for themselves. The ones who don't are generally stupid and I've only met a few stupid people with money to buy tractors.

 

[montanaman]

Most folks have sense enough to judge quality for themselves. The ones who don't are generally stupid and I've only met a few stupid people with money to buy tractors.

That is so true! The guys that really try to work me on price never come back to buy or can't get financed. The guys who are going to buy a tractor will start asking questions about Montana and we can work on the best tractor for their application and a sale might happen but VERY few guys who start the conversation about price first, ever buy.

 

[TillerofdaEarth]

Well Maka, it sounds to me like you are really irritating this guy to no end. Just keep doing what you are doing, remain steadfast, knowing that you are probably hurting him more than you know. Just keep winning those contracts and watch him fume!! That is sweet revenge!

 

[john99]

Sounds to me like maka is getting frustrated dealing with all of the mis representation by the Kubota dealer, this is pretty typical of what I see. I really hope that we see laws like the auto industry has that require disclosure of country of origin. That way we can see its assembled here of foreign parts. Just like the New Holland/Case guy’s who sell “American Tractors” made in the Islamic Republic of Turkey with Fiat engines! Or the JD guy’s that sell green Yanmar’s or 5000 series built in India or the Massey's made in Japan. All in all the big names are the guiltiest of mis-representation on a very large scale I am surprised there hasn’t been a class action suit.

 

[JerryG]

Just like the New Holland/Case guy’s who sell “American Tractors” made in the Islamic Republic of Turkey with Fiat engines! Or the JD guy’s that sell green Yanmar’s or 5000 series built in India or the Massey's made in Japan. All in all the big names are the guiltiest of mis-representation on a very large scale I am surprised there hasn’t been a class action suit.

I know the Masseys have the country of manufacture on a plate on each tractor. They say France, Brazil, Poland or Japan. I never looked but always thought that the others were labeled also. Are they not?

 

[RollingsFarms]

I know the Masseys have the country of manufacture on a plate on each tractor. They say France, Brazil, Poland or Japan. I never looked but always thought that the others were labeled also. Are they not?

the only label plate i can find on my JD says "engine manufactured in Japan".

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Islamic Republic of Turkey

Turkey is a secular nation, it is not an "Islamic Republic" but I am curious why you would show such obvious bias.

For whatever it is worth, there are factual errors in your post, but the above comment is simply offensive

 

[Tom59]

One thought on FREE advice , its free.

This is a WORLD economy now and I'm guaranteeing you Kubotas are outsourcing parts.

The manufacturer label is where the assembly plant is not where every component is made. They would have a scroll on the machine instead of a label if most tractor companies had to list where all the components came from. ie: electrical , lines, hoses, belts, steel, hydraulics etc....

Montana I'm sure outsources components so they can properly match every machine to the BEST component. Would that be a bad thing? When they make such a variety of machines maybe its better they match components from other companies with expertise in that component. Again a good selling point.

I'd go ask the guy out for dinner and discuss your opinion. He sounds really insecure and not the best salesmen. He probably graduated from the old school selling techniques car dealers used to employ. How can I sell you this car today. (some still do)

As people mentioned just keep doing what you are....do it with a smile.....do it without prejudice. Sell what you're selling the best you can and people will notice.

He will probably order chicken at the dinner.

Again its free, so its probably not worth much.

 

[Maka]

I agree. I have done some research and Kubota has over 250 suppliers of various things. I know they don't manufacturer everything but this dealer is telling people they are 100% manufactured by Kubota. This would normally not really bother me but when this dealer claims they have a superior product because their manufacturer makes it all and the other machines are "component machines" indicating somehow that is bad and they are good it begins to bother me after all the other shenanigans this dealer has pulled.

If they did do 100% in house manufacturing then theoretically they could really stick it to their customers on pricing. Would Kubota do this? If they had a lock on their parts market would prices be higher than if customers could get other sources for parts? I am not saying they would do this and want to be careful with what I am saying and this is just speculation but I would be concerned if I was a buyer that prices could be very high if I had to buy from one source.

I would rather buy something from a company that you could get the best manufactured product from and then have wide support for parts.

Just thoughts on possible fall out from a manufacturer that its dealer claims makes 100% of their parts in house. By the way, I am an individual writing my own thoughts and do not represent any other person or company in this post, period.

Maka

 

[Bob_Skurka]

If they did do 100% in house manufacturing then theoretically they could really stick it to their customers on pricing.

That is one very simplistic and very narrow way to look at it. Another way to look at it is that they could control their costs and quality better and offer superior quality at a lower price. In industry it is called "vertical integration" and it is and often used technique to accomplish higher profits, consistent quality and lower prices. My company is in the process of taking another step toward vertical intetgration. We currenty have warehousing and trucking we will soon (just a few weeks from now) also control our own retail operations. Each step layers on profits, but it also controls costs. So to presume that they would "stick it to their customers" may be very inaccurate. In fact, vertical integration is often used to bring the ultimate consumer the product at a lower price.

With regards to Kubota, I believe they outsource many minor components, but they build many major componenets. They are one of the most vertically integrated of the tractor companies, making their own engines, transmissions, pumps, stamping their own sheet metal, etc. I seriously doubt if they make their own wire, guages, switches or other minor things.

It does sound like the dealer near you needs to get a good slap upside his head!

 

[Maka]

I was hoping someone would respond. This is from Kubota's 2006 financial report.

Legal proceedings

In May 1998, the Company was investigated by the Fair Trade Commission of Japan (the “FTCJ”) for an alleged violation of the Law Concerning Prohibition of Private Monopoly and Preservation of Fair Trade (the “Anti-Monopoly Law”) relating to participation in fixing the shares of ductile iron straight pipe orders in Japan. The Company received a cease and desist recommendation from the FTCJ in March 1999, which was accepted by the Company in April 1999.

The FTCJ also brought a criminal accusation alleging violation of the Anti-Monopoly Law against the Company and 3 of its employees, who were indicted in the Tokyo High Court in March 1999. On February 24, 2000, the Company was fined ¥130 million, and the 3 employees were given 6-10 months prison sentences, suspended for 2 years.

In the meanwhile, the Company received a surcharge order of ¥7,072 million from the FTCJ. The Company has challenged this order and filed a petition for the initiation of hearing procedures that were started in March 2000. Under Section 49 of the then Anti-Monopoly Law, upon initiation of the procedures the surcharge order lost effect. In addition, Section 7-2 of the then Anti-Monopoly Law stipulates that surcharges are imposed in cases where price cartels or cartels that influence prices by curtailing the volume of supply are carried out. The Company believes that the alleged share cartel does not meet the requirement of Section 7-2, and has not established any provision for the ultimate liability, if any, which may result from the settlement of this matter. An unfavorable outcome from this issue could materially affect the Company’s results of operations or cash flows in a given year. The Company is not able to estimate the likelihood of such unfavorable outcome. As of this filing date, the Company is still in the process of the hearing procedures


"So to presume that they would "stick it to their customers" may be very inaccurate"

My presumption is based on what looks to be some history of petential abuses.

This is public information and can be seen here http://www.kubota.co.jp/ir/financial/sec/2002_pdf/08.pdf

I got the quote above from their 2006 filings which also referenced that http://www.kubota.co.jp/ir/english/library/annual/ar_06t_en/pdf/01.pdf.

OH well, I am not going to let dealers just say whatever and get away with it. I will be resolved to take all those statements to task.

Maka

 

[gamefowlnut]

Just the other day, I was watching a JD program on RFDTV, where you can call in an ask ?'s about JD products & a viewer called in asked if the 5000 series was made in USA. one of the panel stated that they were made in GA. I receive Farm industry news magazine & a couple of weeks prior read that they where assembled in GA, not made there. so that goes to show you people will say anything to sell product.Even on national TV.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

In May 1998, the Company was investigated by the Fair Trade Commission of Japan . . .

I think that digging up something that is 9 years old is pointless, the fact that it is dragging on for years and proof has not yet settled this (one way or the other) is proof that lawyers are probably the only ones getting rich. I'm not trying to defend Kubota, but I do think a few things about what you are doing here. Any public corp is required to disclose unresolved legal issues in their annual reports here in the US.

By digging into something that occurred in Japan a decade ago, that related to 'ductile iron' you are really grasping for straws on this. In fact you look pretty desperate to me. Heck we don't even know what the laws are in Japan or if this makes any sense or affects anything here in the USA.

What is happening is a trade dispute of some type. Nothing has apparently been proven, it is only alleged. Anyone can allege anything. Just like you allege that the Kubota dealer is saying things about you/your tractors. We only see one side of the story. Take a step back.

Now if the local dealer is being a total jerk, then point out his flaws. But remember than many people don't respond to attacks. I walk away from sales people who attack other brands. Many other consumers do the same thing. So it is very possible that the idiot at the Kubota dealership is sending customers to you!

a viewer called in asked if the 5000 series was made in USA. one of the panel stated that they were made in GA. I receive Farm industry news magazine & a couple of weeks prior read that they where assembled in GA, not made there. .

There are actually laws that govern this. To me the laws pretty much stink. But it appears to me that something that is partially assembled in the US from foreign components qualifies as "Made in the USA"

 

[Maka]

My point is that Kubota is not above what appears to fixing prices as they have been accused in the past and are in current litigation for it. Hey, if Kubota dealers want to try and bad mouth then I am happy to dig up stuff to show that they are not transparent and some dealer are willing to lie to make a sale. Of course this is all my opinion and I don't represent any company or person in my rant and this is all my opinion.

The best way for them to shut me up is to quit lying about me & slamming my products. If they paid more attention to their business and quit worrying about me they would be much better of. The probem is not Kubota products, they are good. I just wish this dealer was a bit more responsible.

Gotta run, just loaded a TYM T233 TLB to be delivered and have a guy coming in to pick up a 2844HST Montana with 4in1 bucket. I guess the best way to really do it is continue to take market share form them.

OH well, this is mostly my frustrated rant at what I see as a dealer who is scared of losing his market share and will stoop to low levels to try and compete.

Thanks All,
Maka

 

[Bob_Skurka]

My point is that Kubota is not above what appears to fixing prices as they have been accused in the past and are in current litigation for it.

• Point #1: Accused, not proven.
• Point #2: There is no evidence that suggests they tried to fix prices in an effort to INCREASE them. In fact, among many suppliers, Wal-Mart is constantly accused of attempting to fix prices to REDUCE costs.

Wal-Mart is the #1 retailer in the US.

Kubota is the #1 Compact Utility Tractor supplier with roughly 60% of the US market share.

Both are "proverbial 800# gorillas" in their respective fields, it is a very safe bet that neither got there by overcharging for their goods.

You seem to be having problems with your local dealership, but instead of blaming the local dealer, you are reaching to Japan to find things about Kubota, then you infer, possibly incorrectly, that they somehow prove a conspiracy against consumers. Again, if you have a problem with the local dealer, deal with HIM. He is your problem. There is a huge disconnect between your local dealership and some sort of problem with ductile iron in Japan that you now claim (without any evidence) is a scheme to stick it to customers by somehow controlling pricing through price fixing!?! That is a big stretch that shows a lack of logic. How could a modest size tractor and equipment company manage to fix worldwide prices of iron? Seriously, take a step back and look at what you are writing.

 

[Maka]

I have tried to be careful to point out that the ocal dealer is a problem. I don't think I made a claim but suggested it culd happen and pointed to an pending issue with a link.

In any case, I believe that the Kubota is not 100% manufacturerd by Kubota and will let it rest. I think my point is made and will move on.

Maka

 

[Bird]

So it is very possible that the idiot at the Kubota dealership is sending customers to you!

And in his fervor to get back at, or harm, the local Kubota dealer, I can't help but wonder if Maka isn't sending customers to Kubota.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

And in his fervor to get back at, or harm, the local Kubota dealer, I can't help but wonder if Maka isn't sending customers to Kubota.

And that is what I have been trying to point out to him in a nice way. He mentions the fact that the local dealer is his problem, but then he goes off on tangents to blame Kubota USA's parent company in Japan for "sticking it to customers" and for "price fixing" schemes and it just sounds like a lot of sour grapes . . . to me he is acting very much like his local Kubota dealership! He blames them, but he does almost exactly what they do

I believe that the Kubota is not 100% manufacturerd by Kubota

I think most people would agree with that. They probably don't mold their own rubber tires. They probably don't pull their own wires. They probably don't even make the switches, gauges, fuses, etc.

But they do make their own major components. How picky do you want to get with your local dealer? If I was on your lot and you started telling me that Kubota subcontracts out its minor parts, even if it was 100's of them, I would think you were being very picky. If the Kubota dealer told me that Kubota manufacturers 100% of their own parts, I would probably ask him which Kubota factory made those "TITAN" tires! But then, as a customer, I can be a picky jerk. I would, however, believe the Kubota salesman if he said all the major components are built by Kubota.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

The best way for them to shut me up is to quit lying about me & slamming my products. If they paid more attention to their business and quit worrying about me they would be much better of.
Maka

Sounds like someone needs to take their own advice.

Saying that Kubota is the only company who builds all their major components of their product is a very true statement. I'd consider a loader a major component, not a fuse.

 

[Maka]

My fervor is limited to this forum. As I have said it is my rant. I never under any circumstances bad mouth competition and in fact praise their products but I am ticked and have vented here. Oh well, gotta run.

Thanks,
Maka