Global Warming?

Rainbody · Aug 30, 2012

I do like seeing articles but I'm more interested in the studies/models which are not always easy to find.
http://icecap.us/index.php/go/joes-blog/a_new_record_for_antartic_total_ice_extent/
I guess there's a big difference in where to measure ice. Less over here more over here. Moistures got to go somewhere.
The methane thing is James " Cherry Picker" Hansen's bag. Anything that man says is unreliable and possibly a fabrication. It would shock me if his ice readings are cherry pick like his last study on surface temp.

Redneck in training · Aug 30, 2012

Here is an interesting fact I read about some time back in one of the trade magazine associated with hydrocarbon. Most hydrocarbon in existence is located in hydrate form on the sea bottom. So far the Oil&Gas companies don't know how get it but they are working on it.

houstonscott · Aug 30, 2012

Thought we had this cleared up, CO2 has no connection to warming or cooling, in fact the atmosphere may not even be the correct science to study to understand the warming and cooling history of the earth. Some old socialist scientist writing some flawed computer model have already been proven as nothing more than quacks.

HS

RobertBrown · Aug 30, 2012

houstonscott said:
Thought we had this cleared up, CO2 has no connection to warming or cooling, in fact the atmosphere may not even be the correct science to study to understand the warming and cooling history of the earth. Some old socialist scientist writing some flawed computer model have already been proven as nothing more than quacks.

HS

:confused2: WOW.....So that's it then, I guess....Looks like you put this one to bed.:dance1:
Thanks HS!

houstonscott · Aug 31, 2012

Not just me, the world. The connection between CO2 and the history of cooling and warming periods on earth are not connected and so the connection or blame of man's activities are also broken. So with no one to blame for something and no good reason to reduce CO2 all the interest in GW goes away. The only real interest was to control your activities.

HS

Rainbody · Aug 31, 2012

houstonscott said:
Not just me, the world. The connection between CO2 and the history of cooling and warming periods on earth are not connected and so the connection or blame of man's activities are also broken. So with no one to blame for something and no good reason to reduce CO2 all the interest in GW goes away. The only real interest was to control your activities.

HS

New studies about stellar objects and the sun's different cycles have punched some huge holes in these finds that where always "above reproach". Which is the question I think you're asking. Is studying some gas at sea level really the best way to predict climate? I'd say the trend is to no.

If anyone would like to post the model or study about CO2, I'd like to see it. The IPCC model and James Hansen's work through NASA are not acceptable. You'll find much of the models to share code with IPCC or fail their hindcasting test. Or crank up the sensitivity to CO2. Or not account for rainfall. Or not account for atmospheric pressure changes. I think you'll find many of these "models" are proprietary and will not be released. I won't even go into how distorted some of their peer review stuff is.

The organization that supports these studies are connected to some shady characters. The Al Gore study/scare tactic and his board member presence on Carbon Exchange should make anyone skeptic of these studies about global warming/climate change/extreme weather/AGW.

Btw the name change is a classic maneuver out of the red book. Don't change the program or goal just the name.

newbury · Sep 3, 2012

From A Passage through Ice

August 29, 2012

羨 Passage Through Ice Sailing Expedition has just completed the crossing of the infamous M辰lure strait in the Canadian Arctic to become the first sailboat ever to achieve this feat. The international expedition team consisting of Edvin Buregren, Nicolas Peissel and Morgan Peissel have spent the last three months at sea on a 31 foot boat sailing from Newfoundland Canada to Greenland, through the Canadian Arctic to track the depleting polar ice cap and bring awareness to climate change.

典he Arctic is melting at an alarming rate and is clear proof of our disharmony with the planet. By sailing this newly opened route we hope that our expedition will play a small part in bringing further attention to climate change and contributing to a larger shift in attitudes. Our approach to sail across a historical stretch of water that has traditionally been frozen is meant to be a clear visual example of the extent of declining polar ice.

We will continue to track the polar ice cap towards the Bering strait where we will head into the Pacific Ocean to complete the most Northern Northwest passage ever accomplished by a sailboat.

Not a large ship, a 31 foot sailboat. 3 people.

A new record minimum of the Arctic sea ice extent was set on 24, August, 2012

Arctic Sea-Ice Monitor

But who cares, Hurricane Isaac finally came thru and gave us rain after two weeks. So what that some parts of the US suffered a little from drought. Even Jefferson City, MO got 1.76" of rain on August 31st bringing them to 2.5 for the month, bringing their summer rainfall up to about 6", only 11" short of normal. Who needs corn anyways?

houstonscott · Sep 5, 2012

10,000 feet of ice has melted off north America in last 10000 years what did you expect. Doesn't prove man has a connection to whats been happening.

HS

madmax12 · Sep 5, 2012

The ice in my soda is melting, too.

But... it really is my fault.

I removed the ice from the freezer... :ashamed:

RobertBrown · Sep 6, 2012

10,000 feet of ice has melted off north America in last 10000 years what did you expect. Doesn't prove man has a connection to whats been happening.

This is true, there is no proof, there is only compelling evidence. If you're looking for proof, proof beyond a shadow of a doubt, or indisputable truth, stop looking because it's just not there.
I will add this: What kind of proof would it take for you to consider....objectively.... that man could be playing a role in the present changing climate? Additionally, I could ask you to prove that man has not influenced his environment as such or as described. A valid question when you consider we have impacted so many other natural aspects of our earth.
Understand: I am not interested in your answer, the question is for you to ponder, a rhetorical question.

Extraordinary melting of sea ice in the Arctic this summer has shattered the all-time low sea ice extent record set in September 2007, and sea ice continues to decline far below what has ever been observed. The new sea ice record was set on August 26, a full three weeks before the usual end of the melting season, according to the National Snow and Ice Data Center. Every major scientific institution that tracks Arctic sea ice agrees that new records for low ice area, extent, and volume have been set. These organizations include the University of Washington Polar Science Center (a new record for low ice volume), the Nansen Environmental & Remote Sensing Center in Norway, and the University of Illinois Cryosphere Today. A comprehensive collection of sea ice graphs shows the full story. Satellite records of sea ice extent date back to 1979, though a 2011 study by Kinnard et al. shows that the Arctic hasn't seen a melt like this for at least 1,450 years (see a more detailed article on this over at skepticalscience.com.) The latest September 5, 2012 extent of 3.5 million square kilometers is approximately a 50% reduction in the area of Arctic covered by sea ice, compared to the average from 1979 - 2000. The ice continues to melt, and has not reached the low for this year yet.

Why the Arctic sea ice is important
Arctic sea ice is an important component of the global climate system. The polar ice caps help to regulate global temperature by reflecting sunlight back into space. White snow and ice at the poles reflects sunlight, but dark ocean absorbs it. Replacing bright sea ice with dark ocean is a recipe for more and faster global warming. The Autumn air temperature over the Arctic has increased by 4 - 6ｰF in the past decade, and we could already be seeing the impacts of this warming in the mid-latitudes, by an increase in extreme weather events. Another non-trivial impact of the absence of sea ice is increased melting in Greenland. We already saw an unprecedented melting event in Greenland this year, and as warming continues, the likelihood of these events increase.

Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog : Half of the polar ice cap is missing: Arctic sea ice hits a new record low | Weather Underground
You will find Dr. Masters references a study conducted by et al.

This link describes in painful detail how the study was conducted and how the models were used and the data interpreted. If nothing else it will give you some idea of how complex this topic is.
http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/7/3/034011/pdf/1748-9326_7_3_034011.pdf

This video describes briefly the study, and how it was conducted.