Comparison Gear driven or HST

[ddb123]

I read your other posts and I'm sorry to hear about your other tractor.

It sounds like you would definitely prefer the HST for your uses. I started with a gear model, and although I did like it and gear does have its charm (my cars and trucks always have and always will be manual transmissions), in a tractor you need to be paying more attention to what you are DOING than shifting and slipping the clutch just right and giving it just the right throttle. The HST is a miracle and it lets you focus on the task at hand. I went from a fully paid-for gear tractor to a now-in-lots-of-debt HST tractor and it was absolutely worth it. I intentionally riled up the crowd with my first post (I thought it was funny), but the fact is, for most people most of the time in a "home use" situation like you described, the HST is hands-down the best option.

For six acres, you'd probably be fine with the B3200, although if you don't need a mid pto the B3300 is probably a better value. If your terrain is hilly at all, you would probably benefit from the wider wheelbase of the L3200. Try out the 3pt with an implement hooked up before you buy, as the dreaded "jerky 3pt hitch" is the bane of the standard L series Kubotas. I really love the B series Kubotas, but I went with a larger tractor because weight is usually your tractoring friend. I have never regretted the extra size and weight of my tractor compared to the B3300 I almost got instead (on the contrary, I'm almost always happy that I have more ground clearance and more weight -- aka traction).

My hearty recommendation would be to get an L3200 and be sure to avoid the jerky 3pt hitch -- it only effects some of the particular tractors. Although they both have the same hp, the engine will never notice the additional weight. But the tires will, in terms of increased traction. You may be thinking that the smaller B3200 would be better for around the house, and you would be correct to an extent, but the HST gives you such precise control that you will confidently operate an L3200 near your home. L3200s aren't that big, anyway.

My girlfriend wouldn't touch my gear L4300, but she competently operates my HST L3540.

I can't speak to differences in resale value, nor to maintenance. I have always heard that HSTs are bullet proof (you'll never have another wasted clutch), and I do think it's telling that large machinery often has an HST. They really are maintenance-free except for changing the fluids.

 

[94BULLITT]

The b3200 can have a mid pto for running a snowblower or a mower. The L does not have a mid pto option. The L has a stonger loader and 3PH. You can get a skid steer quick attach on L. You have to get a aftermarket ssqa for the b.

 

[IndyIan]

Thanks to everyone that replied to this thread. TripleR makes a great point. I should have given you all more information. I have 6 acres of land, four has been cleared and two are wooded. I use my tractor mainly for the FEL (spreading dirt, hauling cut wood, etc.) but I'm planning on grading a driveway about 50 yards long and 10 feet wide, brush hog the other two acres, to thin out the under brush and with a rotary tiller for a small garden. I'm leaning toward the HST so my wife and daughter can use the tractor. My main concern between gear driven or HST is which one would need less maintenance. I have a small gear driven grey tractor now with less than 150 hrs that needs a clutch already. This is my first tractor and has been an expensive experience. I purchased it used about 15 months ago with 70 hrs. As for the other half of the question, should I buy a Kubota B3200 or L3200. If I wanted to sell it later on which one is the more popular. They both are about the same tractor except the
L3200 is a lot more beefier.

Given your history with a clutch, and your uses I think an HST is better for you. I've never regretted getting one and with the proper maintenance I can't see why an HST isn't going to last for many clutch lifetimes used on your lot.

 

[joshuabardwell]

My main concern between gear driven or HST is which one would need less maintenance. I have a small gear driven grey tractor now with less than 150 hrs that needs a clutch already.

Something does not add up there. A tractor's clutch should last thousands of hours if properly adjusted and not abused by the operator.

 

[npalen]

A little off topic here but one area where hydrostats really shine is harvesting equipment such as combines. My first combine as a farm kid was a Deere Model 55 which had a gearshift in conjunction with a manually operated variable speed belt system. Then the newer 95's had the same except power operated variable speed belt system. Since then they are now all hydrostatic with two or three gear ranges even the newer 400 HP machines. Driving a combine during harvest is constantly changing speeds, stopping, backing etc.
I promised myself, when retiring at age 66 earlier this year, that I would stay out of the grain fields. Didn't happen. It just gets into your blood.

 

[TripleR]

Thanks to everyone that replied to this thread. TripleR makes a great point. I should have given you all more information. I have 6 acres of land, four has been cleared and two are wooded. I use my tractor mainly for the FEL (spreading dirt, hauling cut wood, etc.) but I'm planning on grading a driveway about 50 yards long and 10 feet wide, brush hog the other two acres, to thin out the under brush and with a rotary tiller for a small garden. I'm leaning toward the HST so my wife and daughter can use the tractor. My main concern between gear driven or HST is which one would need less maintenance. I have a small gear driven grey tractor now with less than 150 hrs that needs a clutch already. This is my first tractor and has been an expensive experience. I purchased it used about 15 months ago with 70 hrs. As for the other half of the question, should I buy a Kubota B3200 or L3200. If I wanted to sell it later on which one is the more popular. They both are about the same tractor except the L3200 is a lot more beefier.

Thanks for the additional information. Our primary machines right now are a BX2200, BX2660, John Deere 2305, Kubota Grand L5740 HSTC and Kubota M8540 HDC, we have several older geared models, but I had to quite driving them; getting too old.

In any given day I may be operating a geared and HST tractor, so I am use to quite a few hours with both types.

Full disclosure, I HATE quarter inching valve 3PH such as on the B3200, but lots of people like them, so I would go to the dealer, have them put something fairly substantial on the 3PH, see if you can easily control it and see how gast it leaks down, in this size my favorite is the B3030 or if in a cab B3000, but cost is significantly higher.

Due to the jerky 3PH known to exist on the L3x00 tractors do the same thing as with the B3200 though since it is position control, it won't leak down. I MUCH prefer an independent PTO over live or transmission driven. The L3200 has the much older style transmission driven with over running clutch. It is an annoyance in a gear drive tractor, we have tractors with them, but less so with an HST because you are not clutching to change gears or direction. Here is a link:TractorData.com - Power Take-Off

As to size, either will do and only by putting as much seat time as the dealers will let you, will you be able to pick the right one and you may even want to rent one as close to what you are looking for for a weekend to get a real feel. From my own personal experience two of my favorite tractors did not impress me on the lot and only came into their own after I got use to them. Another thing I noticed is often times a tractor seems to "shrink" once you put it on your property and use it a while.

I try to stay away from recommending out right HST over gear or vice versa as we are all different. My brother just bought a synchro shuttle Kioti after looking everything over for literally years and LOVES, it; me not so much though I drove one for 12 years, Case not Kioti. However, you mentioned your wife and daughter using it and I believe they will be happier and use the tractor much more if it is an HST. My wife has taken over the two BX's, often uses the John Deere and bush hogs with the Grand L when needed. My daughter is very comfortable on our small HSTs as is my grand daughter.

Choosing the "right size can be confusing no matter how long you have been driving/operating unless it has been with a similar machine, our M8540 was simple as we needed to replace a Case of the same size. Other times you can leave the house convinced you want one and come home with another, we went to buy a B2920 and came home with a BX2660 and another time we went looking for a B3200 or L3400 and came home with a L5030 HSTC.

Much of what I like in a tractor costs more and makes operating it easier, but for many years I got by with a bare bones machine and was happy to have it.

I agree with joshbardwell, no way your clutch should be worn out, we have geared tractors over forty years old with the original clutch.

I hope I haven't muddied the waters too much and as I have said before:

If you can pick a tractor with:

1. Just the right horsepower, no more no less.
2. Just the right weight, no more no less.
3. Just the right loader/backhoe performance, no more no less.
4. Just the right tires.
5. Just the right transmission for ALL of your needs.
6. Just the right price, no more; don't worry about the "less" part, won't happen.
7. Just the right size; not too big and not too small, just right.

If you can do all this and more that you aspire to in your tractor selection, you can retire from your present job and become a very successful tractor consultant.

 

[texasjohn]

I can only repeat what TripleR said. He knows his tractors. He gives good advice. Believe it. :thumbsup:

 

[RoyJackson]

IIRC Roy has problems with his right leg/foot so operating a hydro tractor won't work well for him. I can understand his using his left leg for the clutch and having a combination that works well for him. Gotta do what works for you and be thankful we can use these tractors at all.

Yep, bum right leg and foot from a stroke. That wouldn't stop me from operating an HST...except maybe for the close work. I'd have less problems with Deere's 2 pedal HST then I would with Kubota's treadle type pedal.
That's not why I have a gear transmission...I just prefer gears.
But when it comes to people buying a tractor, they just need to determine what they like best.

These threads do give me an opportunity to harrass all those quiche eating girly guys though!! Keeps an old man occupied.

 

[jenkinsph]

Roy,
This old man has owned and operated gear and hydro tractors and I will tell you straight out for close in work the hydrostatic is waaay better to operate. The ehydro's are better than the early hydro's too, sometimes you have to try something new and use it for awhile to recognize the differences. I have about 1800 hours operating the hydros' and several thousand hours operating the gear transmissions on tractors. Both types of transmissions have their place but with so little hydro experience how do you place judgement on them?

 

[RoyJackson]

Both types of transmissions have their place but with so little hydro experience how do you place judgement on them?

If you go back and read most of the threads (over the last ten years or so), you see I mostly promote gear transmissions rather then demote HST.
You're correct...most responders do not have adequate experience in both types of transmissions to make an educated post on the merits. Even the relatively few hours I have on HST is likely more then most have on gears.
What I mostly promote is the OPs get on the tractors and see what they prefer most. They are the ones going to be living with their decision.

But, it's just an internet forum and harassing the girlyguy HST owners is fun. That's what it boils down to...

 

[texasjohn]

These threads do give me an opportunity to harrass all those quiche eating girly guys though!! Keeps an old man occupied.

It's his entertainment. Experience? Bah, humbug

 

[jenkinsph]

Thanks to everyone that replied to this thread. TripleR makes a great point. I should have given you all more information. I have 6 acres of land, four has been cleared and two are wooded. I use my tractor mainly for the FEL (spreading dirt, hauling cut wood, etc.) but I'm planning on grading a driveway about 50 yards long and 10 feet wide, brush hog the other two acres, to thin out the under brush and with a rotary tiller for a small garden. I'm leaning toward the HST so my wife and daughter can use the tractor. My main concern between gear driven or HST is which one would need less maintenance. I have a small gear driven grey tractor now with less than 150 hrs that needs a clutch already. This is my first tractor and has been an expensive experience. I purchased it used about 15 months ago with 70 hrs. As for the other half of the question, should I buy a Kubota B3200 or L3200. If I wanted to sell it later on which one is the more popular. They both are about the same tractor except the
L3200 is a lot more beefier.

I see lots of guys post about buying a hydro so the wife can operate the tractor, think thats funny. Most women aren't any more spastic than men from what I see. I recommend buying a hydro if it best suits your own uses. Operating a small tractor on a few acres I can't see the need for a gear tractor at all. Clipping pastures all day, plowing large fields then a gear tractor saves fuel and becomes much more important.

 

[jenkinsph]

If you go back and read most of the threads (over the last ten years or so), you see I mostly promote gear transmissions rather then demote HST.
You're correct...most responders do not have adequate experience in both types of transmissions to make an educated post on the merits. Even the relatively few hours I have on HST is likely more then most have on gears.
What I mostly promote is the OPs get on the tractors and see what they prefer most. They are the ones going to be living with their decision.

But, it's just an internet forum and harassing the girlyguy HST owners is fun. That's what it boils down to...

I agree for the most part, I enjoy arguing with old gear tractor guys who have little or no experience with hydrostatic transmissions.

 

[k0ua]

I agree for the most part, I enjoy arguing with old gear tractor guys who lave little or no esperience with hydrostatic transmissions.

Bingo!:thumbsup: oh, and are we having quiche for dinner?.. and should I wear my tutu and toe shoes ?

 

[k0ua]

I agree for the most part, I enjoy arguing with old gear tractor guys who lave little or no esperience with hydrostatic transmissions.

Bingo!:thumbsup: oh, and are we having quiche for dinner?.. and should I wear my tutu and toe shoes ?

 

[94BULLITT]

I prefer on hydro on a tractor. I prefer a manual on a car or truck.

 

[JerryK]

It not just gear/HST... there is hydro reverser in the middle somewhere there, which is a great comprimise... I can see gear for farmers plowing and discing fields all day ... and those too set in their ways to admit they were too cheap to get an HST... [ ]

 

[TripleR]

If you go back and read most of the threads (over the last ten years or so), you see I mostly promote gear transmissions rather then demote HST.
You're correct...most responders do not have adequate experience in both types of transmissions to make an educated post on the merits. Even the relatively few hours I have on HST is likely more then most have on gears.
What I mostly promote is the OPs get on the tractors and see what they prefer most. They are the ones going to be living with their decision.

But, it's just an internet forum and harassing the girlyguy HST owners is fun. That's what it boils down to...

Can't argue with that and we all need to have a good sense of humor.

When soliciting advice and assigning a value to the posts it is really helpful, or at least it is to me, to know someones background and personality if possible.

In the end all most of us have to rely on and put forth what has worked best for us. My brother knows far more about tractors than I and he is as happy with his newly purchased Synchro-Shuttle Kioti as I am my L5740 HSTC; now he likes HST, he just likes gears better.

I see lots of guys post about buying a hydro so the wife can operate the tractor, think thats funny. Most women aren't any more spastic than men from what I see. I recommend buying a hydro if it best suits your own uses. Operating a small tractor on a few acres I can't see the need for a gear tractor at all. Clipping pastures all day, plowing large fields then a gear tractor saves fuel and becomes much more important.

I don't recommend HST because I think "women are more spastic than men", but rather in my experience with my wife, two daughters, two sons and working with initially a 50/50 split men and women, it has been my observation that men are more likely to be familiar with or willing to learn gears in cars/trucks than women and I have taught quite a few women to drive geared cars who did not grow up using them, lots of burned clutches. I may be the only one, but I find it easier to transition someone from a geared car/truck to geared tractor though it is certainly not a smooth transition.

Now I live in a rural area in which the demographics are different than an urban area, but even when I worked and lived in a large city, men were far more likely than women to drive something with gears even if it was a sports car. With each succeeding generation, the likelihood of either using gears is, I believe, decreasing. My brother recently tried to find a geared Chevy 1/2 ton pickup and now owns his first automatic pickup. He kept his old gear drive though. Again, I'm not saying geared cars/trucks/tractors are the same, just more alike than geared cars/trucks and HST tractors.

My wife drove geared cars and trucks for over thirty years and has pretty much said she is done with gears on anything. She keeps promising to learn at least enough to move the M8540 out of the way, but in two years has only managed to start it to charge the battery and warm the engine up. She will jump in/on anything with an HST, so sometimes some of us have to take the women in our lives into consideration when buying.

Please don't tell my wife I think she is spastic or it could get ugly up in here; now my youngest daughter, the one who ran over her brother's bicycle with the lawnmower...:laughing:

 

[Agent Blue]

I have a manual/gear that I bought new. If I ever do it over, it will be a HST without a doubt. In addition, I've heard its about a $3000 job to replace a clutch where as its only about $1000 more for a HST so its probably much cheaper in the long run.

I think you have them mixed up. I have replaced clutches, disks and plates. The labor is getting to it... not the expensive parts. A bobcat with the seperate sunstran pumps for the hydrostatic is just as labor intense and fifteen times more expensive. Nothing is cheap about hydrostats.... ever fix one? Probably not because they are replaced, not repaired.
I had a TC45 NH that I listened to the hydro whine for three years. Went to pull another tractor out of a sink hole and it had a terrible time trying to spin those large tires when weighted down. Traded for a TC 55 with power reverser and have never been happier. If I can't find a range in twelve gears it isn't worth doing. The hydro pumps never seem to have the power to efficiently run the drive and loader at the same time. This is true of tractors less than 100 hp. My Deere lawn machine ( 4110 ) is hydro and for minimal tasks it works just fine. Depends on the task.... pulling a chisel plow gear... getting the mail and grading the drive hydro. Each has a place but I will never believe a hydro can be repaired cheaper than a clutch.

 

[ddb123]

I had a TC45 NH that I listened to the hydro whine for three years. Went to pull another tractor out of a sink hole and it had a terrible time trying to spin those large tires when weighted down. Traded for a TC 55 with power reverser and have never been happier. If I can't find a range in twelve gears it isn't worth doing. The hydro pumps never seem to have the power to efficiently run the drive and loader at the same time. This is true of tractors less than 100 hp.

The lesson here: don't buy a New Holland.

I had to say it....

(disclaimer: I have never owned, operated, or heard anything bad about New Holland)