I ran my tractor into a snowbank, was going to get off and check it out and shifted it into neutral. Every time I got off the seat, it started to kill, like it wasn't in neutral. Then I got off and let it kill. I checked out and shoveled a couple of minutes, went back into the seat and it wouldn't crank or turn over at all. I got the ignition light and clicks like the glow plugs were working but it wouldn't crank over. No thing would make it crank (and I adjusted and readjusted things for a long time. It seems it won't go into neutral. I towed it back to my house. Now what?
GC1705 Will not Start!
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MF RED in MT
Veteran Member
ckuehn, welcome to TBN.
The problem you are describing sounds like the neutral safety switch under the seat (at least that's correct for my tractor).
Maybe on your newer tractor there might be another switch under the tractor someplace for the shifter lever to be in neutral that you should look for.
I would first raise the seat and function check that switch, and if it's working properly, then search for another safety switch that the tractor would only start if in neutral.
Could you add more information about running into the snowbank, front/rear/rightside/leftside of the tractor, and the size/hardness of the snowbank.
Hope this helps you,
KC
Langanobob
Gold Member
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2007
- Messages
- 414
- Location
- Reno, NV
- Tractor
- AC HD6G, Ancient Kubota HK5 Mini Excavator, MF GC1720
I was plowing in deep snow and had the same problem. The starter wouldn稚 crank. Problem turned out to be snow packed around a safety switch located underneath the tractor on the left side. Took awhile to figure it out but everything was fine once I cleared the snow out of the switch.
Honestly, we got nailed by so much snow that the snowbank was just one I kind of slid into. It wasn't hard or anything. I was stuck about six times today, so I don't think it is anything that damaged it. It is just so weird that I expected it to just kill and then I would be able to start it again. We did tow it back into our yard, so if it wasn't in neutral, would the tires have turned to tow it backwards? I thought of the switch under the seat, but I can't really see why that would have been activated. I did do a lot of slipping and maneuvering to rock out of the snowbank. I will check for the safety switch, but I'm not really sure what I am looking for. The snow on the right side of the tractor was up to the cab door though.
MF RED in MT
Veteran Member
Like langanobob says, I would first clear out all of the snow packed under the tractor and see if that might expose your problem.
KC
Well, I can't find anything and the snow is gone and it still doesn't work. Then I got to thinking, it can't be the seat because I was having trouble before I ever got off the seat, I =should have been able to leave the tractor on when it was in neutral and get out, however, it is like it never even went into neutral. I tried to get off the seat and it started killing, so I sat back down and it was running fine, then I shifted out and hack into neutral again and it did the same thing.Could there be some issue in the gear box?
First, make sure all the levers are in the right place. And, the PTO is off. Move them, and reset or re-center all of them. It's easy to bump one, and think it's in the right place, but it isn't.
Next, you can check all the fuses. Not all of them are always in the fuse box, some are close by in the wires.
Then, it is still most likely still one of the safety switches.
I would start with the neutral safety switch.
Some are normally open, and some are normally closed.
You have to find all of them, disconnect them one at a time, and try to start it. Then, jump the switch wires, with a short jumper or paper clip, and try it again.
Almost all the levers have safety switches on them.
If you get a schematic, you can see if it's normally open or closed, and what has a safety switch.
If none of that seems to be the problem, we have seen a wire break off the the back of the ignition switch on earlier models, as well as some ground strap failures.
Next, you can check all the fuses. Not all of them are always in the fuse box, some are close by in the wires.
Then, it is still most likely still one of the safety switches.
I would start with the neutral safety switch.
Some are normally open, and some are normally closed.
You have to find all of them, disconnect them one at a time, and try to start it. Then, jump the switch wires, with a short jumper or paper clip, and try it again.
Almost all the levers have safety switches on them.
If you get a schematic, you can see if it's normally open or closed, and what has a safety switch.
If none of that seems to be the problem, we have seen a wire break off the the back of the ignition switch on earlier models, as well as some ground strap failures.
AxleHub
Elite Member
ckuen,
You should be able to start the tractor without sitting on the seat if you have the brake on and locked down - and the lever in neutral - and you not in the seat. If you can't - it isn't about the seat switch at all. Running into a snowbank could have forced something crooked or an object of some sort in to an area - like the d.i.f. switch or one of the engagement levers. So by starting with brake locked on and in neutral - that answers a bunch of questions quickly - if you CAN't start it with brake locked on and in neutral - you've pinpointed a number of things it isn't and I'd be looking around the brake undercarriage area or near the underside of neutral shift area to start with.
axle-and-hub
You should be able to start the tractor without sitting on the seat if you have the brake on and locked down - and the lever in neutral - and you not in the seat. If you can't - it isn't about the seat switch at all. Running into a snowbank could have forced something crooked or an object of some sort in to an area - like the d.i.f. switch or one of the engagement levers. So by starting with brake locked on and in neutral - that answers a bunch of questions quickly - if you CAN't start it with brake locked on and in neutral - you've pinpointed a number of things it isn't and I'd be looking around the brake undercarriage area or near the underside of neutral shift area to start with.
axle-and-hub
GeneV
Elite Member
It doesn't even crank? If it cranks but don't start, I'd suggest checking that the fuel filter shutoff wasn't pushed to off by the snowbank you plowed into.
Thank you everyone for all of your help with this. I even called a tech guy with my local Massey Shop. He said it was most likely a safety switch also. My son-in-law came out and found that the safety switch on the PTO was sticky and dirty and it must have been stuck in the wrong position. This was one I hadn't even seen before with a button on it. And it is fixed, although i may replace that switch if it gives me any more problems.
MF RED in MT
Veteran Member
Stache
Member
-same happened with my GC1705 two winters ago, but it was the switch on the gear selector that froze up. And I'm pretty certain "froze" was the case, since I was able to start it after an hour of heating the underside up with a tarp and a kerosene heater salamander thingy.
MinnesotaMasseyMan
New member
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2019
- Messages
- 14
- Tractor
- Massey Ferguson GC1705
I have a three year old GC1705 that struggles to start. It always has, but I wanted to see if others have the same experience. It will start, but it "chugs" for about 8-12 seconds before it finally takes off. This is true whether it is 40 degrees or 80 outside. I took it to the dealership and they said the smaller tractors like that can sometimes just start hard. I do run the glow plugs for 10-20 seconds before trying. We have checked the battery and the glow plugs and everything seems fine. Does anybody else have this issue, or is it just mine? Has anybody resolved it?
MF RED in MT
Veteran Member
Have you tried to run the glow plugs for 2 complete cycles - 10-20 seconds each.
How much throttle do you use for starting (I normally use almost half throttle unless engine is already warm front running).
What type of diesel are you using (I use dyed #2 in the summer/ dyed #1 winter blend in the winter, both with power service white bottle additive).
Do you have a clean air filter?
Maybe others that have your model MF will give you some good advice.
Good luck,
KC
"Sometimes just start hard" is a cop out.
It shouldn't start hard. My GC doesn't, even when it's very cold.
It is troubling, that it starts hard when it's warm. I can start mine pretty easily with no glow plugs in the summer. That problem could suggest a fuel issue. Either pressure or quality.
Try turning the key on for 15-20 seconds before doing anything to make sure the fuel pump has full pressure. If that helps check fuel system, and possibly you may need a pump. They are not known for going bad though.
Chugging usually means that one or more cylinders have incomplete combustion. And, that's probably a glow plug issue. But, it could also be a fuel injector problem. You could try some ULSD fuel compliant, injector cleaner in your fuel.
I would verify that the glow plugs are functioning properly, and if one or more has failed. This procedure is widely available, see Google.
I would also do a visual inspection and verify that they do not have a lot of soot built up on them. This is unlikely, unless you have a boat load of hours, but, it's easy enough to pull them, and look at them.
Try several long glow plug cycles, back to back, before trying to start, and see it that helps with your starting issue. If it does, then clearly they are not getting hot enough. Not hot enough? Look for corrosion, on ground straps, and electrical connections. No corrosion? Maybe the glow plugs are bad.
Try jumping the glow plugs directly from the battery, one morning, and see if it starts better. That could suggest a corroded connector, or ignition switch.
If you have a non contact laser thermometer, you can check the cylinders after it starts to see which one, or ones, are cold. You can move the glow plugs to different cylinders and try another cold start the next day, to see if the cold cylinder moves with them. That can verify a bad glow plug.
If you are not sure of the condition of your fuel and air filters, take a look and make sure they are not restricted.
As KC said, you may also want to try opening your throttle, especially if the air is cold. I don't need to open mine, unless it's very cold. At 20F, I open it about 1/4 or so. You could try different throttle settings each time you do a cold start, and see if there is any benefit. With practice, you can decide what setting you need for a given temperature.
For any newbies with starting issues looking for help: A diesel is not like a gas engine. If it is working properly, it should start within 5 seconds of cranking. Cranking for long periods of time is NOT going start it. That's only going to kill your battery. If it doesn't start, don't keep cranking, go back to the glow plugs.
coldsteelva
Veteran Member
Here is a tip that has worked wonderfully for my GC1720. Before shutting the tractor down, set the throttle to ~1500 RPM (not minimum). When you need to fire her up again - hold the glow plug for 20-30 seconds (2 cycles if out in the cold) and then turn her over. Once the engine fires, it will throttle up to the ~1500 RPM you left it at (which is a good warm up RPM) and it will eliminate the chugging/lugging at minimum idle. This also has the side benefit of reducing the amount of diesel soot/smoke produced at cold start.
MinnesotaMasseyMan
New member
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2019
- Messages
- 14
- Tractor
- Massey Ferguson GC1705
Thank you all for the feedback. I tried doing 20 seconds on the glow plugs twice, then starting it at 50% throttle. I tried starting it for five seconds, then stopped. I did that five times, and finally on the fifth time it roared to life. It is 40 degrees in my shed tonight. I also purchased some Diesel Kleen plus Cetane Boost. I put that in tonight and I am running the engine now for an hour or so to get some through the system. I use the Diesel from the pumps in town, so whatever is going into semi trucks at any given point is what I am using. Thanks for the advice. I will keep you all posted.
Over the road fuel isn't always good quality.
Ideally, you have a place close by where the farmers buy their fuel.
My supplier, sells an off road fuel that they put their own additive package in. I never have to worry about jelling, lubricity, octane, or storage issues with their product.
As a bonus, I save the road tax by using off road fuel.
Ideally, you have a place close by where the farmers buy their fuel.
My supplier, sells an off road fuel that they put their own additive package in. I never have to worry about jelling, lubricity, octane, or storage issues with their product.
As a bonus, I save the road tax by using off road fuel.
MinnesotaMasseyMan
New member
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2019
- Messages
- 14
- Tractor
- Massey Ferguson GC1705
Tonight I tried to jump start the tractor with my truck. The engine definitely turns over faster but still took roughly nine to 12 seconds to start and I had to do it twice before it took off. I am now running that fuel additive to try to clean out the injectors as well. I think that rules out the battery. The technicians have tried my plugs and they said they were good. I'm not sure what the next step should be.
Assuming the air filter, and intake is fine and not restricted, leaves fuel, and ignition.
You should check the fuel pressure, that should be covered in the service manual. Make sure when you start cranking it's up to the correct numbers.
Assuming it's not a fuel issue, either the glow plugs are not working properly, or you have a compression problem.
Compression problem would be engine wear, or a valve not seating, the first of which should mean thousands of hours, and the second is pretty unlikely, since we don't have any reports of engine issues.
You could do a compression test to verify the engine is okay. As long as all three cylinders are nearly the same, you probably could at least for now, assume that's not the issue.
That puts you back to the glow plugs. If jumping them, directly to the battery doesn't make any difference to rule out the wiring, you have to decide if you want to do a Hail Mary, and replace them.
You should check the fuel pressure, that should be covered in the service manual. Make sure when you start cranking it's up to the correct numbers.
Assuming it's not a fuel issue, either the glow plugs are not working properly, or you have a compression problem.
Compression problem would be engine wear, or a valve not seating, the first of which should mean thousands of hours, and the second is pretty unlikely, since we don't have any reports of engine issues.
You could do a compression test to verify the engine is okay. As long as all three cylinders are nearly the same, you probably could at least for now, assume that's not the issue.
That puts you back to the glow plugs. If jumping them, directly to the battery doesn't make any difference to rule out the wiring, you have to decide if you want to do a Hail Mary, and replace them.
