Gauging Some Interest on A Weld-it-Your-Self Product Line

[Katahdin]

I would be interested and a grapple is in-line with one of the implements I'd like to have in the future. I'm just interested in saving a few bucks and practicing my hobbyist mig welding skills. Theoretically the equipment I have can weld up to 3/8, I'm not going to claim I can weld up to 3/8 because that might insult a professional welder. I'll just say I can stick metal together. :laughing:

 

[john_bud]

Sounds like a good idea to me. But I also liked the eta proposal. A strong 4' rock bucket w grapple kit would get a sale.

 

[CNC Dan]

....
even offering the "special parts" and plans for sale as tubing and plate is not that hard to source, but Eyes for cylinders and or hinges for joints hitch plates
....

I think that would be the best way to offer kits. Sell all the parts that require cutting, drilling or bending. Let the customer source all the straight pieces localy. Then just cut according to a cut list, and weld to the kit provided pieces.

 

[GPintheMitten]

I think that would be the best way to offer kits. Sell all the parts that require cutting, drilling or bending. Let the customer source all the straight pieces localy. Then just cut according to a cut list, and weld to the kit provided pieces.

Good ideas.

 

[JDskidder]

There is a website for off-roading that has apparently done pretty well with weld-it-yourself kits. I think your product has to stand out and appeal to the community to be successful. I wouldn't say their kits are cheap, but they are definitely a bargain and they're quality made in the USA. I can stand behind that. Check them out if you have never heard of them... swagoffroad.com I bet if you contacted him he would get right back to you with answers to any questions you had.

Everett

 

[BHD]

I think lot could depend on the quality of your plans and directions,
ran across this thread from 2008 on plan quality, http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/customization/116234-plans-sale-via-net-any.html

I know when I was young and just out of high school (40 plus years ago)I ordered a set of plans of a DIY bull dozer,
when I got them I was totally disappointed, (not that they were not good plans if you knew how to read a blue print) there were pages and pages of drawings but I do not remember a clear step by step process of assembly ( at least not clear to me) and even it there was if one could not make heads or tails out of the pages of blue prints,
years later I rediscovered the set of plans and they were a good set of proper drawings, if there would have accompany pictures with the drawings I think I would have caught on,
to day one has video and even pictures,

what I am saying is if you can do a set of plans that a true newbie can build, with little or no fabrication experience, when I bought the plans I could weld and had built a few things in shop classes, but not off of drawings, or following some one elses plans,

when one draws up some thing and understands things it is hard for one not envision some one else not understanding or seeing it how you see it,

regardless of what you come up with, unless the newbie can read and understand the directions, what you sell I think will depend on how you build your support materials, but this is some thing one may need to keep in mind,

 

[sboyte]

I might have some interest in something like a diy backhoe. I've seen one kit that provided laser cut assembly parts one of the places that it failed to grab my serious interest is that the bucket would require a bend that I would still have to find some way to have done.

 

[94BULLITT]

It depends what attachments you are going to offer and the price as to how well it work. I say sell them as a complete kit in ready to weld form. Let the customer worry about painting. You will have to provide some basic instructions or good pictures.

 

[Millsonwheels]

There have been a few new tools intoduced to TBN members that seemed to get a good following. Jake Rake and Ratchet Rake are two. Lots of folks bought them after hearing about them here.

If you can invent something it could go well.

That would be nice, I have a notebook full of ideas its just finding the time/ Money to implement some. haha

I would think there would be some product that would give some protection on rust and such that would not cause welding issues and could be power washed or scrubbed off for painting,
just a quick net search,
Coatings for Corrosion Protection and Rust Control
OKS Spezialschmierstoffe GmbH - Corrosion Protection
Auto & Industrial Rust Remover, Rust Preventative Paint For Cars
not saying any of these are what one should use but I know some paints cause welding problems and not sure what these do to welds, but they all look thinner than paint,


even offering the "special parts" and plans for sale as tubing and plate is not that hard to source, but Eyes for cylinders and or hinges for joints hitch plates
if one does not have a good drill press, and or a lath or milling machine being able to buy the special parts could make a large difference on making some thing or not,

my two cents,

Yeah Thats kind of what Im going for basically what ever Most people dont have access to do easily putting in kit form that can be easily assembled. Ill look into those coats some more later thanks for that!

It sure would have to be cheap for me to want to do all the welding, grinding, painting and assembly. Factoring in the hours it would take me to do that, I'd be very hesitant to give it a try.

Eddie

My goal is for these to be weekend of even style DIY projects, Im shooting for 8 hours of assembly or less, so It wouldn't be such a daunting task.

Exactly what does "going through the motions" mean?...have you produced /sold any "kits"...do you have a catalog or a list of products available?

Ive been doing equipment repair and welding on the side since I was in middle school starting alongside my dad and grandfather, Ive also been working In a Machine shop since I Graduated college, almost all the time ive been working there ive been scheming about this business for the future. Ive been working with the best CAD designer ive ever met to make these top notch designs to make the most user friendly end products.

So I've just started posting but have lurked and learned here at TBN for ten years. In that time I've seen a lot of posts looking for water runoff ditching tools. I think a 3-point full width universal tool bracket with options for various tools would be a good place to start. Capability to offset the tool in either direction past the tires would be a must. For ditching tools everything from a pointy subsoiler to a middle buster to a swale former would be useful.

Dan

Ill look into it but how hard of a pull would these particular ditching tools put on the tractor? Being offset puts a sideways strain on the tractor where it could break traction very easy if the weight of the tractor wasnt very substantial (in my mind)

I think it's a great idea, a lot of people have a welder and some basic tools but don't have the ability to cut steel into precision parts, machine bearings, etc....etc... You could start with a 4' or 5' grapple kit.

Well to start we are doing the orignal desgins what I would call "full scale" starting with large skid steer tractor design then if we end up with a robust design downsizing them for the compact tractor market.

I am not 100% sure but if you do a search I think, Everything Attachments looked into this awhile back. I think there was a thread by someone who was kind of beta testing the kit concept for them.

Everything Attachments (ETA) had the same weld-it-yourself idea a year ago and solicited interest here on T-B-N.

Either there was not enough interest expressed, or they are continuing work on the concept, because we have not heard anything since.

ETA considers T-B-N an important marketing channel for their brand. Right, Travis?

Ive seen this and I like what they did but to my knowledge they are still not as actively involved in this correct?

 

[Millsonwheels]

I would be interested and a grapple is in-line with one of the implements I'd like to have in the future. I'm just interested in saving a few bucks and practicing my hobbyist mig welding skills. Theoretically the equipment I have can weld up to 3/8, I'm not going to claim I can weld up to 3/8 because that might insult a professional welder. I'll just say I can stick metal together. :laughing:

Yes that is exactly what I am going for, Things that would be great first time welding projects with good instructions and all pre cuts pieces ready to go! You can get by with alot if you only having a small machine using preheating or triple pass techniques.

Sounds like a good idea to me. But I also liked the eta proposal. A strong 4' rock bucket w grapple kit would get a sale.

Ok great to know thanks!

I think that would be the best way to offer kits. Sell all the parts that require cutting, drilling or bending. Let the customer source all the straight pieces localy. Then just cut according to a cut list, and weld to the kit provided pieces.

Its interesting you say that because what throws off a reasonable priced shipping quote more than anything is the long pieces (6' or less) so if this could be done it would end up offering savings all the way around, Excellent idea thanks!

Good ideas.

There is a website for off-roading that has apparently done pretty well with weld-it-yourself kits. I think your product has to stand out and appeal to the community to be successful. I wouldn't say their kits are cheap, but they are definitely a bargain and they're quality made in the USA. I can stand behind that. Check them out if you have never heard of them... swagoffroad.com I bet if you contacted him he would get right back to you with answers to any questions you had.

Everett

I have heard of them being a member of as many off road forums as I am also another excellent one to check out who I got the majority of my inspiration from Is the Goat built rock buggy In a box weld-it-yourself idea check it out : Rock Crawler Chassis | Rock Crawler Parts | Rock Crawler Buggy | IBEX Chassis

Like myself its a college grad who put the emphasis on design and ease of use of his original kit idea.

I think lot could depend on the quality of your plans and directions,
ran across this thread from 2008 on plan quality, http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/customization/116234-plans-sale-via-net-any.html

I know when I was young and just out of high school (40 plus years ago)I ordered a set of plans of a DIY bull dozer,
when I got them I was totally disappointed, (not that they were not good plans if you knew how to read a blue print) there were pages and pages of drawings but I do not remember a clear step by step process of assembly ( at least not clear to me) and even it there was if one could not make heads or tails out of the pages of blue prints,
years later I rediscovered the set of plans and they were a good set of proper drawings, if there would have accompany pictures with the drawings I think I would have caught on,
to day one has video and even pictures,

what I am saying is if you can do a set of plans that a true newbie can build, with little or no fabrication experience, when I bought the plans I could weld and had built a few things in shop classes, but not off of drawings, or following some one elses plans,

when one draws up some thing and understands things it is hard for one not envision some one else not understanding or seeing it how you see it,

regardless of what you come up with, unless the newbie can read and understand the directions, what you sell I think will depend on how you build your support materials, but this is some thing one may need to keep in mind,

My brother in law brought up the idea to my yesterday of the sale of plans, This could aslo be done for the less involved projects if the intwerest was there I suppose.

I might have some interest in something like a diy backhoe. I've seen one kit that provided laser cut assembly parts one of the places that it failed to grab my serious interest is that the bucket would require a bend that I would still have to find some way to have done.

Well that certainly is a possibility but Id hate to step on the guys who already sells plans or kits for those, Such as Cad Digger Plans, etc.

It depends what attachments you are going to offer and the price as to how well it work. I say sell them as a complete kit in ready to weld form. Let the customer worry about painting. You will have to provide some basic instructions or good pictures.

Exactly, Im thinking the savings would be very good if I could eliminate the Final assembly labor on my part. Thanks!

 

[aczlan]

Ive seen this and I like what they did but to my knowledge they are still not as actively involved in this correct?

Correct, they decided not to pursue it for the time being.

Aaron Z

 

[timster2]

IKEA has made a fortune with ship flat and assemble kit furniture. I think the idea is great. I have the tools, time and skills to build just about any attachment; what holds me back is the steel. Cutting small quantities of parts from a whole sheet is impractical. Buying a large quantity of steel and having lots of leftovers for future projects is ok but I would rather have what I need for the job and not spend all the money on large bulk sizes or quantities.

Something like a rock bucket, grapple etc that requires a quantity of cut pieces would be the most appealing to me. Attachments that require bending rolling and/or lots of punched holes, like a back blade, make sense to get pre-bent, punched and ready to weld. Bushings, pins and the like are easy to make in larger quantities but a pain to make four of. I'll volunteer to be a test builder any time you are ready:thumbsup:

 

[Rustyiron]

I like your idea! IMHO;
1 Keep the cost's as low as possible.
2 Don't worry about paint, for those worried about a little surface rust, you'd be better off without them. If a little rust scares them, thye're not ready for the rest of the job.
3 Offer the assembly instructions on line to view before purchase to help eliminate the over eager guy
with a brand new 110v welder.
4 Follow CNCdan idea in that all straight, simple large members to be sourced by the customer.
5 Offer a log grapple (see pic) and I'll order it tommorow!:laughing:

 

[aczlan]

3 Offer the assembly instructions on line to view before purchase to help eliminate the over eager guy
with a brand new 110v welder.

I might put a minimum amperage for a welder to be able to easily weld it together (ie: you will need a W AMP MIG welder using X size unshielded wire with 75/25 gas or a Y amp Stick Welder using Z rod).

Aaron Z

 

[LD1]

I think the only way to make a "weld-it-yourself" kit would be on smaller and cheaper implements.

Things like sub-soilers/middlebusters, trailer mover hitches, maybe a ballast box? Things that require minimal welding.

On the bigger things, like blades, discs, plows, grapples etc. There is more welding. And more welding is going to scare away lots of people. And honestly, I consider myself a big time DIY'er. I always like making things. IF not to save money, to make it better or the way "I" want it. Just like my logsplitter. Cost me about $800 out of pocket, and I provided all the steel, alread had the hydraulic fluid, had the axle and motor. Would have cost me close to $2000 if I had to buy everything. And I could buy one from TSC for $1000. BUT, it is the way I want it. Stronger, Electric start, and twice as fast.

Now what I am saying is this.....If I wanted a new grapple for example, I would have 3 options.

1. Buy one already.
2. Buy a kit from you??
3. Just make myself.

I would likely go with option 3. Because lets face it, you dont make hydraulic cylinders and I doubt you are in the business of making hoses. So you would just be the middle man, marking up prices a tad. As to the steel. It is expensive to package and ship. I would either cut it myself, or have the local place do it for me. Cause I am 99% sure they can do it cheaper and have me pick it up vs you doing the designing, cutting, packaging, including instructions, etc.

So my point is this: Anyone with the equipment and know-how to properly build something from precut pieces in the form of a kit, likely has the equipment (or access to), and the knowhow to just do it themselves. Especially for less money than having a "kit" shipped.

Now back to the beginning. I think it might work on the middle buster and potato plow and smaller things. But those implements are ~$200 or so new from local dealers. And I would think you would have to be at ~$100 for someone to want to take the time to do a few welds and paint it. So you would have to cut everything, package and ship, and still come in at or under $100. Just Not much profit.

On a final note. I assume you are building or offering the same equipment you are wanting to offer kits for. If so, my concern would be the future. How will your products that you build be able to be differentiated from your kt units? Cause when a hack welder that has no clue buys one of your kits, assembles it, and it falls appart, he will come on sites like this and badmouth the product up one side and down the other with no mention that he was the one who welded it. IT will give you a bad name.

 

[BHD]

If you would offer "parts" as been suggested before, and using a CNC plasma cutter, for the parts,

I would kind of think that basically cutting by order, would be the way to do it that way one has very little in stock and with the cut drawings saved in the computer, I would think one could pull up a unit and cut to order for the most part, I think I would only keep one or two stocked if that, on some items, when you start to sell, then adjust stock or amounts cut to the frequency of sales,

If you all ready have the tools and not making major investment in tooling,

I would think EBay and adds on forums like this one, and homestead type.self sufficiency types
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I think I would sell the plans and then the parts, keeping the plans in a affordable range,

I know before I built my back hoe, I bought and down loaded maybe 6 to 8 sets of plans, and many manuals and info on back hoes and basically made what I wanted out of all of those ideas,

some may want the plans, some may want the parts, and some may want to buy the completed machine,
what I am thing is if you do not bury your self in hundreds or thousands in stock, besides some time if things do not fly to your satisfaction you have not lost a lot.

years ago, (the reason I bought a computer), I had built and designed a band saw mill, and it worked well, I started to draw up plans, the plans were the main thing, I had a cad program and got so I could use it reasonable well, and then I started to write out the How to end of it, pictures were not even consideration as scanners and digital cameras were not consumer ready for a reasonable cost,

any way I could not find any one with language skills that under stood shop practice and (my wife very good with language) by the time my wife supposable corrected the grammar and wording to proper English, it no longer said what it needed to, and she did not under stand what was going on so she could not help so the project died, and I think if you can not explain what is needed to the non mechanical mind and the shop guru want be,

I was talking to my son a few night ago, and this forum is funny in some ways,
this example is not real.

but if some one asks how to attach a hydraulic hose on to a cylinder there are 30 reply's, and if some one asks a semi tectincal question, there will be a few hundred views and maybe 3 replies and 2 of the replies do not really relate,

there are some very smart people on this board and some that do not have a lot of mechanical skill,
those who have the skill most likely do not need your services and it is those who do not have a lot of skill but have the desire,
Or lack of money that will be drawn to your product,
(I got a old Forney buzz box and a pound of rod and ready to weld up the world), I was once there, mine was a Montgomery Wards buzz box, ever one has to start some where,

I think the assembly instructions will be the biggest asset on how o use the products you sell,

My two cents,

 

[DavesTractor]

I like this idea. But it needs to be for things that have some value, not just a simple box scraper that you can buy already for not much more than the price of steel. Grapple buckets are a good idea, and make them like the very best units. You mentioned alignment tabs, and that is huge for many items as you then do not need a jig, or not much of one, to get everything right. And the idea of buying the long straight pieces locally to save freight is good. But as mentioned, everyone talks like they can weld, fabricate, rebuild engines, etc. But most folks really do not even have or take the time to change their own oil. So your market is limited. This would mostly appeal to folks because they want to build it themselves, with a bonus that it saves money. Because if you really calculate your time, you can't build things as efficiently as can be done in a factory setting.

We sell a factory oem backhoe and I was noticing that the main boom is made up of flat plate that is indexed everywhere with alignment tabs. If a guy could buy this as a stack of steel and cylinders and such, it would be a great project.

Best of luck.

 

[Rustyiron]

What I don't have is the computer ability to "model" complicated moving parts, I've tried working with sketchup and on even basic drawings, I'm hopeless. A pallet of cnc cut parts (especially radius) would be fantastic. For me, welding it all together is the easy part.

 

[PILOON]

Stay with pre cut components.
Most, if not all DIY guys have sources and maybe even valves and cylinders in the grab box.
I for one have valves, hoses, pumps just in case I want to DIY something. Besides I can buy locally so why buy from you and pay all that shipping.
Some ideas to consider: Tooth bar 'KIT' , tree shear, rock rake, quick attach DIY kit, Grapple.

I'll be following developments.

 

[FarmWrench]

Credit to LD1. I have to confess that I have bought plans and here is what has happened.

Wooden boat. I destroy every Chuck of wood I have ever touched, then I marry a Coast Guard Rescue Swimmer's daughter who does not swim and hates all things that float.

Childs toy digger. Got half built and had a girl.

Wood boiler. Got bits and pieces and kept changing the design and then the town outlawed them. Sell some wood to a guy with one who burns 20 times what he should or what I do with my still working indoor.

Right now I am stalled on a tile plow for seven bushing pieces that are backorder. I have $580 in cylinders and $1700 in tube steel cut up and $904 in cut plate and not a single arc.