Gasoline Tractors are they coming Back ?

   / Gasoline Tractors are they coming Back ? #71  
A very smart woman does a lot of research and reporting on many things relating to energy, including the future of diesel fuel. She is not coming from a political viewpoint, using a just the facts approach. It would be difficult to call her a conspiracy theorist.

There are many articles on her web site, energyskeptik, where you will find a lot of information.

For her take on diesel fuel, start here: Index of best energyskeptic posts | Peak Everything, Overshoot, & Collapse
and navigate to When Trucks Stop running: Why diesel fuel can’t be replaced, about 1/3 of the way down the page.
A conspiracy theory website.

When will you guys get hour heads out of….
 
   / Gasoline Tractors are they coming Back ? #72  
A conspiracy theory website.

When will you guys get hour heads out of….
Did you read her posts? She's educated and does a lot of research. Makes sense in a technical way to me anyway. I've been following her works for s while.

p.s. - she lives in Berkeley, I doubt she's a raving neocon.
 
   / Gasoline Tractors are they coming Back ? #73  
When is enough, enough?
We have now been producing diesel engines with DEF or DPF systems since 2012. That must have lowered emissions tremendously. Gasoline engine cars got cleaned-up long before that.
EV’s now have more than a toe hold and are coming on more and more each year.

It’s time for some sanity. Not everything has to be electric. And a reminder that the vast majority of electricity is produced with fossil fuels.
 
   / Gasoline Tractors are they coming Back ? #74  
When battery cost drops it will be very cheap to power things, ICE with the complex engine, transmissions axles etc will be to costly to produce if it not 100 % needed.
 
   / Gasoline Tractors are they coming Back ? #75  
No, it's LNG and methanol instead of bunker fuel.
No, the mentalists on this program are against the LNG the ship builders want to use. Apparently what used to be the clean fuel is now also evil, LOL Same as propane.

A friend sent me a video yesterday of the president of Toyota announcing electric cars are not going to work therefore they are going to continue building internal combustion engines.

I also saw another news release from VW who is fully committed to going all electric now saying that can't afford to produce all the batteries that are going to be required to do such.
 
   / Gasoline Tractors are they coming Back ? #76  
The issues I can see revolve around getting the same power out of the same size/weight engine reliably and inexpensively with a gasser as with a modern common-rail turbodiesel.

A modern EFI gasoline engine is pretty close to the same efficiency in HP-hr/lb as a current Tier 4 diesel. Gasoline engines can be built just as heavy as diesel engines and have a similar lifespan. Off-road gasoline engines have minimal emissions requirements, and even if they had to meet on-road emissions, those are still much simpler and less expensive than those of a Tier 4 diesel. At least regular 87 octane gasoline is also noticeably less expensive than diesel so your costs per HP-hr would be lower with regular gasoline if it could be done.

A naturally-aspirated gasoline engine running on 87 octane makes only a little more power (about 15% or so) at the same RPM than a naturally-aspirated diesel of the same displacement. The issue is that a highly-tuned four-valve multiple-turbocharged and intercooled/aftercooled diesel can make twice the HP/displacement as it would naturally-aspirated, so you would either need a much larger naturally-aspirated gasoline engine to make the same power or add forced aspiration to the gasser. Adding forced aspiration would either bring direct injection into the mix (which brings extra cost and some reliability issues) in order to continue to run 87 octane gasoline or you would need to run a much higher octane fuel to avoid needing direct injection. The limited market for turbocharged heavy duty non-diesel engines with similar power densities as the highly tuned turbodiesels is solidly in the "higher octane fuel" camp as they run on 106 octane propane or 120 octane methane. All of the industrial engines I've come across that run on gasoline are naturally-aspirated.
 
   / Gasoline Tractors are they coming Back ? #77  
Friend of mine recently replaced his older Brush Bandit diesel chipper with a new gas powered one. 6.2 Ford engine.
he loves it but wishes it had a larger fuel tank ! Went gas to avoid the new emission issues and crazy diesel prices.
Still wonder what the emission ratio is from my 52hp Kubota compared to the rockets Elon and Jeff lob up every few days !
 
   / Gasoline Tractors are they coming Back ? #78  
When battery cost drops it will be very cheap to power things, ICE with the complex engine, transmissions axles etc will be to costly to produce if it not 100 % needed.

Battery vehicles only sort of work because it doesn’t take much energy to push a car down the road. Battery equipment that actually does real work is a pipe dream.
 
   / Gasoline Tractors are they coming Back ? #79  
Battery vehicles only sort of work because it doesn’t take much energy to push a car down the road. Battery equipment that actually does real work is a pipe dream.
We had battery operated forklifts with clamps in our paper warehouses that did actual real work unloading rail cars and lifting double stacked rolls of paper that weighed 2.5 tons 20' in the air for hours and hours every day for over 40 years. Seemed like real work to me. ;)

 
   / Gasoline Tractors are they coming Back ? #80  
The issues I can see revolve around getting the same power out of the same size/weight engine reliably and inexpensively with a gasser as with a modern common-rail turbodiesel.

A modern EFI gasoline engine is pretty close to the same efficiency in HP-hr/lb as a current Tier 4 diesel. Gasoline engines can be built just as heavy as diesel engines and have a similar lifespan. Off-road gasoline engines have minimal emissions requirements, and even if they had to meet on-road emissions, those are still much simpler and less expensive than those of a Tier 4 diesel. At least regular 87 octane gasoline is also noticeably less expensive than diesel so your costs per HP-hr would be lower with regular gasoline if it could be done.

A naturally-aspirated gasoline engine running on 87 octane makes only a little more power (about 15% or so) at the same RPM than a naturally-aspirated diesel of the same displacement. The issue is that a highly-tuned four-valve multiple-turbocharged and intercooled/aftercooled diesel can make twice the HP/displacement as it would naturally-aspirated, so you would either need a much larger naturally-aspirated gasoline engine to make the same power or add forced aspiration to the gasser. Adding forced aspiration would either bring direct injection into the mix (which brings extra cost and some reliability issues) in order to continue to run 87 octane gasoline or you would need to run a much higher octane fuel to avoid needing direct injection. The limited market for turbocharged heavy duty non-diesel engines with similar power densities as the highly tuned turbodiesels is solidly in the "higher octane fuel" camp as they run on 106 octane propane or 120 octane methane. All of the industrial engines I've come across that run on gasoline are naturally-aspirated.
They already tried the big displacement gas engines. They didnt work.
How do you make a (gas) engine that has to rev much higher have a similar life span as a diesel engine? What about low RPM torque in gas v. diesel?

Off road machinery needs to make max power at low RPM to minimize fuel consumption.

What I would like to know is just how polluting is todays diesel engine, with a DPF/DEF system? When I see technicians repairing them in an enclosed shop, they must be pretty clean.
 
 
Top