Full Size SUV's

patrickg · Sep 6, 2002

Re: Full Size SUV\'s

RobertN,

Good on you! Fire fighting is a great service to society.

Given your recent experience, I think you can see my point. I'm not picking on women in general or soccer moms or senior citizens or any other group, except drivers of powerful, big, and or heavy vehicles. There are public safety considerations for powerful, big, and or heavy vehicles and skills that are needed to safely operate them out and among the rest of us without creating an unduly dangerous situtation. Take for example the Sunbeam Tiger I had. I should have been required to demonstrate my ability to control that vehicle in various situations involving acceleration etc. as it was capable of considerable acceleration at all legal speeds. These toys can get an inexperienced driver and the innocents unlucky enough to share the road with him, in a lot of trouble.

Similarly, a large vehicle like a motorhome presents additional skill requirements way beyond a small family sedan to operate safely. It isn't enough to just "herd" it down the interstate. What if you have to make a panic stop, dodge a developing accident, deal with loss of brakes on a hill, descend a long steep grade without becoming brakeless, drive into a situation with no exit forward and be forced to back up, possibly around a corner, and on and on and on. Again, not knocking any particular group but how many motorhome pilots have you seen prove to everyone around them on the interstate or other road that they don't have a clue where the rear end of their vehicle is, don't know where their tires are which means they can't dodge tire hazards and so forth.

Buy a pickup (or regular 18 wheeler tractor with 5th wheel motorhome hitch) and a big 5th wheel trailer (notorius for near universal overloading beyond manufacturers specs and tire makers weight limits) and AWAY we go with hardly a thought to what to do if... Can most folks towing 5th wheel trailers back them well? Why do you suppose there is such a big deal made in advertisements for campgrounds with "pull through" spaces so you never have to back up?

It makes me nervous that there are so many high performance vehicles in the hands of low performance drivers. I am also nervous around SUV watering holes like malls where some folks (probably new to BIG vehicles) drive like right of way automatically went to the biggest SUV driven in the most aggressive manner. Why should just plain folk be able to drive rigs that would require stringent commercial lisc tests and driving demos if it were a delivery or long haul trucker instead of great grandmaw "spelling" grandpaw for a while so's he can study the map and figure out how they got lost back there a ways.

(Please, no flames from the keepers of the PC anything, I meant no disrespect to women or old folks, or drivers of performance cars or ANYONE ELSE unless they are clueless bozos who should be restricted to public transportation except where there are totally separate bike lanes AND they don't annoy the rest of the riders too much.

Patrick

TimSullivan · Sep 6, 2002

Re: Full Size SUV\'s

The best SUV ever made with any real comfort was probably the IH Scout, but they don't make them anymore. 

I had one for six years and I must have had a different model. It was fun but was very spartan. The suspension on all of them was bouncy and lacked lateral stiffness. A fun 4wd but no comparison to the variety that is available today.

rozett · Sep 6, 2002

Re: Full Size SUV\'s

It makes me nervous that there are so many high performance vehicles in the hands of low performance drivers. 

I would contend that there are many more "low performance drivers" not in "high performance vehicles" that are just as dangerous (especially around Boston /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif). If you want to fix the problem, go after the "low performance driver" not the vehicles.

After nearly 30 years of long commutes on the interstate, I have much more respect for 18-wheeler drivers than I have for these bozo's weaving in and out of traffic or zipping up the breakdown lane in little cars. That's exactly why I bought my Excursion.

Hank · Sep 7, 2002

Re: Full Size SUV\'s

I also like her driving something with a little beef. There is a lot of crazy driving here in the city

Though it is really a large, mid-sized SUV (111" wheelbase), I have not seen the Mercedes ML320 mentioned. I owned a '99 for 2.5 years, before trading to a Suburban, and the only reason I traded was for increased towing capacity.

The ML320 is in the price neighborhood of a similarly equipped Tahoe (with leather seats, etc); much less than the Land Cruiser. With the back seat folded down, it is probably quite similar to your Land Cruiser, but with plenty of room for two doggies. With the back seat in use, it provides excellent passenger room for five adults; *lots* of head and leg room. It is also easy to enter and exit without a running board (huge doors).

The ML is a fully re-engineered SUV, utilizing a full time AWD that is simply a dream to drive. It is not highly rated for off-road, but I've driven mine up over a 2 ft. mound of snow (when I was plowed in) with ease. It has a fully independent suspension that adds to the driving experience, and which reduces some of the unsprung weight that makes many truck-based SUV's klunky (front upper and lower control arms with torsion bars, and rear coil springs).

Regarding the safety issue, it is the most highly rated SUV in the crashability tests, providing the most protection for the driver's compartment. Mercedes' frames are engineered to collapse and absorb. Comes with front and side airbags.

I took the ML on one cross country trip, and was surprised that I experienced no driver fatigue at all; no sore spots.

The mileage is also a plus, for SUV's, giving 17 and 21 mpg for city and highway.

On the down side, it only takes high test fuel.

At least, it is worth a test drive.

wroughtn_harv · Sep 8, 2002

Re: Full Size SUV\'s

My wife's ride is a 2002 Bravada. It's the Trailblazer--Envoy clone with more bells and whistles.

What we did was look at the three vehicles at the State Fair of Texas where we could compare them without having all the flack of dealerships. The Bravada was the prettiest and came with the best warranty because Olds is a has been.

I love the little bugger. It's got the Smartrak which means it's in full time all the time. You plant the right foot and it doesn't spin tires, it launches.

We have had a couple of problems. The memory chip in the rear view mirrors sucks. But it does have the memory so that when driver number two, me, gets in the radio, a/c, mirrors, etc. all goes to my preferences.

My wife loves the heated seats in the winter. She thinks it's cute when the air compressor comes on and levels the vehicle out. It sits high like a truck but is small and nimble like a car.

BTW this clone from GM is the only SUV without the rollover warning sticker on the visor. That little 4.2 liter six cylinder is set so low in the frame that the front axle goes through the oil pan. The Bravada comes with seventeen inch Michelins stock and it does handle.

And if the situation was to come about where she got something else the Bravada might become my tote about. I do like the zip. It's always fun to blow the skirts up on the unsuspecting just to see what color of panties they're wearing.

The power band reminds me of my youth and hot cars. It pulls nice and steady up to about thirty five hundred. Then it just screams to seven grand. Can explain it but that last half of the rpm ride is like hot chocolate on a cool morning, feels better all over more'n anywhere else.

Scott_in_WVA · Sep 8, 2002

Re: Full Size SUV\'s

I hate to hear about your problems with the Land Rover Discovery...Especially since I just bought a 1999 model that had been leased and turned back in..../w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

patrickg · Sep 8, 2002

Re: Full Size SUV\'s

rozett, I agree that all low performance drivers irrespective of what they are driving, constitute a danger and may exist in greater numbers in low perf vehicles than those in high performance vehicles. Please note, I did not make any argument, as you sort of seem to imply, against any vehicles, just the pilots. A discussion of whether or not any particular vehicle is appropriate or neccessary to have on the public highways at all, never mind the driver, is not going to be initiated by me. That is a topic to be initiated by the keepeers of all things good and holy, the keepers of public morality and deciders of what is best for all the world, not me. If you can keep it between the lines and not tear up the road, you could drive a tank for all I care, if you could pass a stringent safe operators exam, including a driving test. Weight fees would be hefty though.

My point was that vehicles of larger than "normal" size, weight, or power should require more stringent than normal operator lisc certification testing. There will always be people who shouldn't be allowed out with anything on wheels, even lugage with little assist wheels. Even before the country started standing on its head over PC, driving was becoming thought of as an inalienable right rather than a revokable priveledge. You have laid the foundation for my argument. There are indeed many low performance drivers and they are dangerous and when in vehicles with one or more attirbutes of large size, high power, heavy weight they can do even more damage than when in their little subcompact rice burning transportation canisters.

I'm not advocating limiting HP, HP/weight ratios, max speed capability or any other performance factors but I sure as heck advocate NOT arming folks with the instruments of "MY" destruction if they can't pass an appropriate set of tests.

Of course I would, if able, like to see more stringent, and more frequently administered driver's tests, mandatory heavy insurance coverage that escolates DRAMATICALLY with moving violations, classes of drivers lisc that would restrict low performance drivers from some vehicles, roadways, hours of operation and so forth. This isn't based on my pet peeves. Take a look at the statistics compiled on accidents. Who causes how many, driving what, where, when, and of what severity? Attack the problem at the source. More stringent mechanical inspections would probably be a good idea in many states and for "foreign" vehicles. It isn't that the causes of accidents, their severity, and their frequency aren't known that we just keep on keeping on, it is because it isn't PC or politically expedient or popular to actually address the well documented causes. But then, in a country where you can get a handfull of DUI's and keep on driving, why would we expect a sudden burst of intelligence and responsibility to take place?

When I encounter some of the shop till you drop SUV pilots in a mall parking lot, while they are scurrying mindlessly about like so many rodents or cockroaches when the ligts are switched on looking for the ideal short-walk-to-the-entrance parking spot, I feel much better when I am in my Ram 3500.

Patrick

Anonymous Poster · Sep 8, 2002

Re: Full Size SUV\'s

That is a topic to be initiated by the keepeers of all things good and holy, the keepers of public morality and deciders of what is best for all the world, not me.

In this country, that IS you .... and me .... we are the public and what our fathers, grandfathers, great grandfather, etc. fought and died was for was for us to decide, not for someone to do it for us. That is an eastern European idea. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

patrickg · Sep 8, 2002

Re: Full Size SUV\'s

gnawbone, I'm sorry you were mislead and didn't realize what I said is a continuation of many comments I have made recently trying to be sarcastic regarding the self appointed censors who among other things don't want any non-tractor posts on the Off Topic & Just for Fun Forum. I'll eventually get over it and probably soon but if a little bit is good maybe a whole lot more will be better.

If that was all you were moved to comment on then I guess we are in agreement on the rest.

Again, sorry for misleading you. It isn't usually too funny if you only hear the punchline.

Oh, by the way, let me makek one thing perfectly clear! I am in violent agreement with your sentiments.

Patrick

Anonymous Poster · Sep 8, 2002

Re: Full Size SUV\'s

Patrick,

This is a problem with "type-talking" - you try to boil things down to the bottom line when your typing. We'd never get anything done of we went back to the beginning of time and explain everything so that "newbies" like me will not misunderstand.

Thanks for the clarification !!!!

Kent