fuel problem?

[riley19d]

i bought this tractor recently and i have taken several steps to get it running right, fuel bowl upgrade, new fuel line to the pump, and new fuel filter, it runs fine when first started then the power trickles off, if i pump the primer it comes back to life and runs fine, i have purged the air several times dont know what else to do, HELP PLEASE.

 

[Rich Waugh]

Have you taken the whole assembly out of the fuel tank and cleaned or replaced the in-tank strainer screen? Is *all* the hose new, and not just the piece between the sediment bowl and the lift pump? Old hoses can collapse and starve the pump for fuel or they can shed bits of detritus that clog filters; clogged strainers and filters do the same, etc. From what you describe, the tractor starting fine and then losing power, it sounds as though your engine is starving for fuel when running. That indicates a restriction in the fuel supply somewhere - track it down starting at the fuel tank and working your way one piece at a time to the injection pump.

Rich

 

[Bob Rooks]

Hope it ain't BUGS!

 

[Rich Waugh]

Bah - HUMbugs! If it was humbugs I'd think they'd have done more than just slow fuel delivery by this point, but maybe not. Fortunately (for me) you have much more experience with the little buggers than I do. I paid attention to your warnings and take precautions, and I haven't had any issues so far - having said that, of course, I'll probably get them now.

Rich

 

[Affordable]

If you can pump the primer and keep it going ,you are starving for fuel to the injector pump

Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales
"Your Jinma Parts Superstore"
Home of compact Jinma, Foton, and Koyker Tractors and Parts, Wood Chippers, Backhoes - Affordable Tractor Sales Company

 

[Bob Rooks]

Mine acted just like Riley's prior to plugging up almost solid. I sure wish they came with fuel pressure gauges (like mine now has). There are pictures of my experience with the critters on CTOA, but can't find them right now. You may also find a screen in the banjo bolt on the suction side of your lift pump.
In order for these engines to perform up to their ratings they must maintain a minimum 10 psig of un-aerated fuel in the fuel injection pump fuel cavity (that portion of the fuel injection pump that you bleed) at all engine speeds and loads above ~900 r/m.

 

[riley19d]

i know for sure i am starving for fuel but if i Can pump the primer and it runs fine do any of you know if the restriction would be before or after the pump, also when i pump the primer some fuel weeps out of the shaft could it be that its letting it lose pressure?should i replace the primer?

 

[Bob Rooks]

also when i pump the primer some fuel weeps out of the shaft could it be that its letting it lose pressure?should i replace the primer?

No, not necessary.The hand primer is completely out of the loop when the engine is running except when you operate it. The hand primer utilizes the same check valves that are in the lift pump. Did you check the strainer in the lift pump suction banjo fitting like I requested? You may have to temporairily install a vacuum gauge at the lift pump suction and a 60 psi pressure gauge downstream of the secondary fuel filter. It is remotely possible that the fuel pressure regulator on the fuel injection pump has failed, not allowing pressure to build in the cavity*.

*This will give the same symptom as a restricted fuel supply.

In my case I found that the lift pump check valve seats had become badly pitted due to "BUGS" and weren't working effectively, and that the fuel pressure regulator had also suffered the same fate and had to be replaced.

 

[riley19d]

ya i checked the screen in the banjo fitting and it was clear i even blew it out i cleaned the tank until i had no more crap showing in the sediment bowl when i turned the fuel on but i think im going to drain the tank and shop vac it out just to be sure its not something that simple. so the pressure regulator is also in the pump, correct? is there an easy way to clean the pump out without tearing into it?

 

[riley19d]

one more thing when i turn the fuel on the fuel bowl wont fill unless i pump the primer is this normal?

 

[riley19d]

i think my tank just may have so much crap in it that it is covering the valve and only letting it be sucked through instead of free flowing.

 

[Rich Waugh]

It sure sounds to me as though there is still a restriction in or near the fuel tank. Try removing the fuel line from the downstream side of the sediment bowl and then see how fast the fuel runs into the bowl form the tank. It should run in/through almost immediately - if not, then that confirms a restriction in the tank or tank fitting area. It could be that the reason it's not running into the sediment bowl now is because the system is so airtight that it is "airlocking" until you pump the lift pump, but that shouldn't really be the case. It should be gravity feed all the way to the lift pump.

Did you pull the fitting out of the fuel tank? On my tractor there is a screen inside the fuel tank on that fitting and it can easily get clogged and stop fuel from flowing. Most people don't even know that screen is there, much less service it.

If there is any chance that you have Humbugs (hydrocarbon utilizing microbes) in your fuel tank, you'll need to thoroughly clean he whole fuel system. That means draining it completely, flushing it repeatedly with fuel known to be clean and then running a bug-killer through everything. After that you run an additive in your fuel to suppress the bugs. They come from your fuel supplier, usually older fuel that has been exposed to moisture, from what I understand. Bob Rooks is the resident expert on humbugs and probably offer more complete advice regarding them and their elimination.

Rich

 

[Bob Rooks]

ya i checked the screen in the banjo fitting and it was clear i even blew it out i cleaned the tank until i had no more crap showing in the sediment bowl when i turned the fuel on but i think im going to drain the tank and shop vac it out just to be sure its not something that simple.
DON'T USE A SHOP VAC! Atomized fuel vapors are combustible, and your shop vac doesn't have an explosion proof motor in it. Best to remove the tank and high-pressure wash it.

so the pressure regulator is also in the pump, correct?
No. It is incorporated in the banjo bolt connecting the return-to-tank line to the fuel injection pump. It will have either a "dimple" in the center of the hex or a 6mm bolt and sealing washer.

is there an easy way to clean the pump out without tearing into it?
If you are referring to the fuel injection pump, no. Don't even go there.

when i turn the fuel on the fuel bowl wont fill unless i pump the primer is this normal?
Yes and no. If you loosen the bowl and it begins to fill, that's normal (shows no signs of air leaks). If you loosen the bowl and it doesn't begin to fill. then there is a restriction upstream.


i think my tank just may have so much crap in it that it is covering the valve and only letting it be sucked through instead of free flowing.
That is entirely possible. To determine if you have a bug problem with your fuel you will find a lot of slimy muck in the tank. This stuff will ruin your fuel system components, including injectors, if remedial steps are not taken. I suggest you get a detector kit if you find even traces of slime.
Buy Hammonds BIOBOR HUM-Bug Detector Kit - Detects harmful fungal- Sky Geek, Skygeek Owner, Shop Supplies, Fuel Additive,

12345

 

[riley19d]

well there definately is slimy stuff in the tank so i will thoroughly flush

 

[Rich Waugh]

Well, looks like Bob called it right on the humbugs. Bummer. A clogged screen is less of a problem. You need to go the whole route now, with the cleaner, the biocide, the flush and the biocide additive and hope the bugs didn't have time to screw up the pump and injectors.

Good luck with it!

Rich

 

[Bob Rooks]

well there definately is slimy stuff in the tank so i will thoroughly flush

In that case I recommend that you test your new batch of fuel too especially if you have it stored in quantity. Even after you thoroughly clean your tank and flush the system with fresh fuel you will still have to treat your next five subsequent fuelings with a biocide otherwise they are bound to return. You must also change your fuel filter again. Think of your engine as having a dose of the clap and you are the doctor.
I also recommend that you get some Amazon.com: Kolor Kut KKM3-TUBE 2.5 oz modified Water Finding Paste: Industrial & Scientific and test your fuel tank periodically.
:thumbsup:

 

[riley19d]

ok so i just spent 24 hours on guard duty and i have been reading up on my tractor learned quite a bit minus one big fact where the heck are my glow plugs, i cant even find them listed in the parts store little alone where there at on my tractor!

 

[riley19d]

one more thing i am pretty sure my ignition switch is bad none of my lights or gauges work, and if i switch the key back and forth a couple of my gauges will occasionally flicker and i cant use the key to start it so i have been using a push button to the cylinoid to start it and it runs fine how is this possible without any preheat on the glow plugs or power going through the ignition switch?

 

[greg_g]

My KM454 has a direct injection engine, no glow plugs. In fact no pre-heat at all. That said, I don't know which engine is in the JM454. If you have glow plugs, they'll look like skinny sparkplugs sticking out of one side - a little below the valve cover. They're typically connected to to each other with either primary wire or a copper strip (buss bar). The wire or strip is subsequently connected to the key switch. I've even heard of a (very) few Chinese tractors that have a manifold pre-heater - instead of glow plugs that is.

Glow plugs are only used to pre-heat the air in cold pre-combustion chambers (or in some direct injection engines the actual cylinder) before it's actually started. I don't know of any Chinese compact tractors that employ after-glow. Once the engine's running, glow plugs are out of the picture. Same with the manifold heaters.

//greg//

 

[Diamondpilot]

Fix one problem at a time. Clean the tank and make sure there is no screen that is clogged on the top of the sediment bowl. The only way to get to it is to completely remove the sediment bowl and fuel shut off from the tank. Once everything is cleaned up put it back together and get it running on fresh fuel that is treated with a Bio product. Anti-Gel additives DO NOT have it commonly. You must add it. I have never had issues but now run some in my 300 gallon bulk tank because it just so cheap.

As Greg mentioned many tractors do not have glow plugs. If you can not find them you probably do not have them. You may have a grid heater or nothing at all. Once you get your fuel problem solved we can help you with the key switch.

Chris