Oil & Fuel Fuel Additives, when or not too add

[3930dave]

DAVE nailed it.. I build injection pumps for a living & have seen it all, concerning NO additives in fuel systems.. I feel bad for folks that don't use it.. The older Roosa master/Stanadyne pumps & CAV's are grandfathered in and are the exception to the additive rule..
EVERYTHING ELSE should run a added lube in the fuel..
I'm replacing a pump housing this week because the rotating metal parts inside the pump literally ATE THRU the aluminum pump hsg..
The hsg. alone is 571.00 then the 10 miscellaneous parts that need to be replace & then the 500.00 labor to do it..
You have to weigh the pros & cons when using it.. can I afford to get the pump rebuilt/replaced every couple of years?? When does the cost of the additive become greater than the cost of a pump??

There's also the cost of a tractor/vehicle being down when you need it, and being able to sleep well at night :yawn::zzz::zzz:....

Given the usual cross border split, that job you describe would be more (even currency adjusted) dollars up here. For laughs, I checked a 64oz bottle of Stanadyne on Amazon.ca and .com. Roughly USD $34 vs. Can. $180 ! That's how bad pricing is on some things up here.

The data is out there, and anybody that is new to diesels would be well served by talking a diesel mechanic out to dinner to pick his brains, or at least take a box of doughnuts in to the local injection system re-build shoppe.....

My CAV system is known as anvil-tough, but I still add the good stuff to it as well. I've used Stanadyne long enough to see how clean it keeps the fuel system - I'd continue to use it for that reason alone, but once I add in the anti-gelling, water management (reduces or eliminates risk of biological growth), and lubrication benefit, it's a no-brainer.....

I'm not interested in snake-oil though..... one of the reasons I initially went with Stanadyne is I figured from a business standpoint, they'd have to be insane to put out a line of useless products, given the volume of injection system components they sell into OEM markets.

"Ounce of Prevention....." is an old expression. I find that many people divide out into mostly 2 categories - ProActive or ReActive, when it comes to dealing with problems. That alone may determine how people view spending money on a good quality additive.

Rgds, D.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I have never used anything in my fuel and never had any problems. It doesn't get cold enough here to require an anti-gel agent and I keep my fuel inside an enclosed building so it limits any condensation buildup. My tank has been in use since 2009 and has never had a water, contamination or other issue with it. My RTV and B26 went 450 hours without changing the fuel filter. The B26 was beginning to have a lack of flow issue but the RTV filter was sparkling clean when I changed it. Both were fueled from the same tank and I cant explain the dirt in one and not the other but that is all that was in it, no water in either.
All my equipment is 2009 models and I have had no issue with fuel pump or injectors.

Mostly I think the additives are just for peace of mind for those using them and if that is what you need then definitely go for it. I would recommend anti-gel agents for those living where temps get below about 25F in winter if you plan to use your tractor during the cold weather.

As for lubricity issues, I have never heard of commercial equipment or farmers putting fuel supplements in their equipment and many of them run 10,000 plus hours without a fuel issue. For larger tractors burning upwards of 10 gallons of fuel per hour, that is a heck of a lot more fuel than any CUT owner will ever put thru his machine in a lifetime.

I will say that if you are running an older machine designed for use of high sulfur fuels, you may need a lubricity agent, but modern engines are designed to use ULSD and require nothing more than clean fuel.

For the diehard fuel additive users: I don't consider the statement " I have used xxx fuel additive since new and never had a problem" to be of much consequence since they likely could have done the same thing without using an additive. Lots of discussion on this and some scientific evidence that shows some of the additives to be worse than using nothing when it comes to scarring of the injection pump pistons. Google it and you will find tons of articles on fuel additives.

 

[James Henry 01]

I see that I have a lot to learn concerning owning a diesel. I can also see the value and wealth in the lifetime of experience that many of you have, for that I am most grateful.

"Ounce of Prevention....." is an old expression. I find that many people divide out into mostly 2 categories - ProActive or ReActive, when it comes to dealing with problems. That alone may determine how people view spending money on a good quality additive.

Rgds, D.

I too see the value in the old adage, but didn't want to damage or destroy the engine or any components by meaning to do well. Then in my ignorance end up like "THEPUMPGUYSC" stated and paying dearly. Another old adage is "ignorance is no exception to the law". I assume that covers the law of rule, physical law, moral law and of course mechanical law. Learning from our mistakes is as we all know a part of life.

But I want to thank you guy's for sharing your knowledge and experience in order to save some of us the expense and heartache of "Learning the hard way".....

Thank's again...

James

 

[Looking4new]

James, an ounce of prevention is worth a lot more than any walking in sub-zero temperatures.

 

[Mikefromcny]

While I don't think they'd hurt, the inline plunger style pumps on the Kubota are lubricated by engine oil. Pumps that will be bothered by the​ low lubricity are the stanadyne/roosamaster and CAV rotary style pumps.

 

[3930dave]

Older article, but still relevant, and hopefully of interest to this thread....

Why Diesel Fuel Injectors Fail - Diesel Power Magazine

I do agree with Gary re. controlled testing is not easy to do. If a 10,000 hour tractor needs an IP at 7,000 hours, would it have made it to 12,000 with a good quality additive ? Hard to say, w/o starting off 12,000 hours of testing with 2 identical tractors (yes, I do know.... it would actually take more than 2 to come up with meaningful data :drink , aka way too expensive for a mere mortal like me.....

That link also cites the fuel Wear-Scar limits north/south of the 49'th..... they are different.

Rgds, D.

 

[Deere Dude]

DAVE nailed it.. I build injection pumps for a living & have seen it all, concerning NO additives in fuel systems.. I feel bad for folks that don't use it.. The older Roosa master/Stanadyne pumps & CAV's are grandfathered in and are the exception to the additive rule..
EVERYTHING ELSE should run a added lube in the fuel..
I'm replacing a pump housing this week because the rotating metal parts inside the pump literally ATE THRU the aluminum pump hsg..
The hsg. alone is 571.00 then the 10 miscellaneous parts that need to be replace & then the 500.00 labor to do it..
You have to weigh the pros & cons when using it.. can I afford to get the pump rebuilt/replaced every couple of years?? When does the cost of the additive become greater than the cost of a pump??

Thanks for verifying what I was told by a shop that replaced my pump and injectors for my truck a few months ago. Expensive to say the least.

On the way out the door I saw 50 cases of Stanadyne Lubrication fuel conditioner (If I recall the name correctly withought going and checking). I asked about it and this big injector and pump shop said that was the way to go because of lubrication needed from very dry fuel. I asked about Power Service White as a substitute as long as I had a few bottles laying around and he told me that does just the opposite of what is needed. It drys the fuel out even more.

Even though my tractors run without any additive, I put Standyne Lubrication to ward off any premature damage from very dry fuel.

 

[Spindifferent]

I use the Diesel Formula STA-BIL Fuel Stabilizer regularly for the diesel tractor and the comparable product for the gasoline engines as the fuel sometimes sits around for a while between uses.

 

[buickanddeere]

Ah yes, the world of elixers, potions, lotions, charms, amulets , crystal balls ,reading tarot
cards, rabbits feet and taking vitamins. Not to leave out fuel and oil additives .
Use #1 winter diesel in the winter instead of trying to keep #2 diesel from waxing the filters in winter. If there is water from condensation in the fuel, add IPA. That's it, that is all that is required ever.

 

[boggen]

i gave up on fuel additives. tried them. and tossed them.

1954 allis chalmers CA tractor. spits and sputters and will not run worth a darn. if anything is added.

1995 chevy blazer, never say any engine performance difference or MPG difference. always kept on general pre-maintenance, and maintenance on it.

ford 333c TLB added some non GEL to the diesel, due to older gas from summer. and it was a nasty winter with lots of snow. and wanted to make sure any starting issue was not result of diesel gelling up.

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some of those additives. causes the fuel to take more compression, or harder to get to exploded / fire. and/or possibly creates more heat for more performance. non of which i really do not care about. i need less heat from fuel, a fuel that explodes / fires up easily. ya i am not right at max MPG / HP of tractor. but the handful of extra HP. i will never notice. on other hand, i will notice, extra pre-maintenance, and more so maintenance as in repair work, or when temperature gauge is more sporadic due to radiator is clogging up like usual.

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don't get me wrong, there are places for the fuel additives. but used to fix something / clean something. not all the time.

granted i would imagine some folks here on forum, might have there own 100 to 500 gallon fuel tanks. and have fuel delivered. and might need something to deal with water, or bacteria growth at the tank.

i would imagine some folks (including myself), that let regular gas tractors and equipment set in winter. and need something to help keep the gas turning into varnish and causing issues with the fuel system.

i would imagine some of us have experienced bad fuel (from local gas stations), and causing some issues. and maybe needing a cleaning of the fuel system on equipment.

some folks might have bad place were equipment seats when not being used. and causes extra moisture to form in fuel tank.