Front End Loader Leveling Arms?

[SPYDERLK]

Can you elaborate on how this "lock up" can occur, I can't understand given all you are really doing is moving the rear anchor points for the curl cylinders as the loader raises?

Cheers

Rohan

Its because the bucket can only curl so far. Say you have it up a few feet, curl it all the way and lower it - or dumped all the way and raise it. What happens? Also lesser issue problems when encountering more than curl force capability at the bucket lip when raising.
larry

 

[Renze]

The flow diverter valve... Our hydraulic self-level feature is tops in the industry, bar none.

Could be, but flow diverter hydraulic self leveling still doesnt get near reaction cylinder hydraulic self levelling, or mechanical self levelling.

 

[rhamer]

Its because the bucket can only curl so far. Say you have it up a few feet, curl it all the way and lower it - or dumped all the way and raise it. What happens? Also lesser issue problems when encountering more than curl force capability at the bucket lip when raising.
larry

Ah, yes I hadn't thought about that.

How is this problem avoided with commercial mechanical leveling systems?

I assume the bucket must be able to curl in each direction further than the hydraulics can push it.

So bucket curl in both directions = hydraulic curl + mechanical curl

Cheers

Rohan

 

[SPYDERLK]

Ah, yes I hadn't thought about that.

How is this problem avoided with commercial mechanical leveling systems?

I assume the bucket must be able to curl in each direction further than the hydraulics can push it.

So bucket curl in both directions = hydraulic curl + mechanical curl

Cheers

Rohan

I think bucket stops are placed on the loader arms to stop before the cylinder uses all its travel. With a msl you may find lift points that allow full cylinder travel then move the arms to hit the curl stop and force cyl movement. Thats why you can get in trouble in the situations I mentioned if you dont have a relief valve in the curl circuit as I think rback33 was saying. With the curl spool centered there is no relief for the curl cyls if the bucket hits its stop as you raise or lower the arms.
larry

 

[rhamer]

I think bucket stops are placed on the loader arms to stop before the cylinder uses all its travel. With a msl you may find lift points that allow full cylinder travel then move the arms to hit the curl stop and force cyl movement. Thats why you can get in trouble in the situations I mentioned if you dont have a relief valve in the curl circuit as I think rback33 was saying. With the curl spool centered there is no relief for the curl cyls if the bucket hits its stop as you raise or lower the arms.
larry

So the trick is to make sure the cylinders reach the end of their travel (in both directions) before the bucket reaches the full extent of it's rotation (in both directions)

Cheers

Rohan

 

[Reg]

Search for threads on Kioti KL451 (& above) loader.

 

[rhamer]

Search for threads on Kioti KL451 (& above) loader.

Thanks Reg, but I'm not exactly sure what I'm searching for?

I found a whole lot of stuff on cracked Kioti loaders, but they seemed to be ones without leveling arms.

Cheers

Rohan

 

[R W]

So the trick is to make sure the cylinders reach the end of their travel (in both directions) before the bucket reaches the full extent of it's rotation (in both directions)

Cheers

Rohan

I agree, and would think many factory built units would be set up this way.
Hope to check them out at the National Field Days (Orange NSW) this month.

 

[rback33]

In the system the relief dumps the fluid from the from the tilt circuit back to the lift circuit so the the cylinders either extend or retract accordingly. With out the relief in the system, everything locks up. The linkages and cylinders continue be pushed as the lift cylinders continue to move. Something has to give at some point. When something gives... it's scary. I have seen one practically explode due to a malfunctioning relief.

 

[Reg]

In the system the relief dumps the fluid from the from the tilt circuit back to the lift circuit so the the cylinders either extend or retract accordingly. With out the relief in the system, everything locks up. The linkages and cylinders continue be pushed as the lift cylinders continue to move. Something has to give at some point. When something gives... it's scary. I have seen one practically explode due to a malfunctioning relief.

No need.
Just do the geometry right and the cylinders don't "fight each other".
Kioti KL451 and similar are examples of this.
If Kioti dealers aren't plentiful in your area take a look at a John Deere CX400 loader, which I just happened to see at a horse show today.
Now THAT is an easy one to understand, without even seeing it go up and down (-:
Heck, their brochure probably shows it and even a picture should be enough.

 

[R W]

In the system the relief dumps the fluid from the from the tilt circuit back to the lift circuit so the the cylinders either extend or retract accordingly. With out the relief in the system, everything locks up. The linkages and cylinders continue be pushed as the lift cylinders continue to move. Something has to give at some point. When something gives... it's scary. I have seen one practically explode due to a malfunctioning relief.

Do you really know what you are talking about, the operation of the leveling
system has been explained, operaters who have had some experience with
FELs will avoid the danger areas, the main two being , lifting the bucket
while it is the fully dumped position or lowering it
with the bucket fully retracted. On any loader I have used one or both these
situations were best avoided.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Rback33, has KMW changed the hydraulic leveling package that I have on my Mahindra 7520 tractor? Or are you guys using the same valve on all of your loaders that have the self leveling option? Have you come up with an on-off switch for them like Kubota has. I sure wish that mine had an on-off capability. There are many situations that I would prefer to not have the self leveling feature.

 

[rback33]

Do you really know what you are talking about, the operation of the leveling
system has been explained, operaters who have had some experience with
FELs will avoid the danger areas, the main two being , lifting the bucket
while it is the fully dumped position or lowering it
with the bucket fully retracted. On any loader I have used one or both these
situations were best avoided.

Do some searching. The answer is easy to find.

Rback33, has KMW changed the hydraulic leveling package that I have on my Mahindra 7520 tractor? Or are you guys using the same valve on all of your loaders that have the self leveling option? Have you come up with an on-off switch for them like Kubota has. I sure wish that mine had an on-off capability. There are many situations that I would prefer to not have the self leveling feature.

It has evolved a great deal, but it is still the same basic design. It cannot be turned off and on. The only thing you can do is un-plumb it and re-plumb as needed. It only takes a few minutes to do.

 

[rback33]

No need.
Just do the geometry right and the cylinders don't "fight each other".
Kioti KL451 and similar are examples of this.
If Kioti dealers aren't plentiful in your area take a look at a John Deere CX400 loader, which I just happened to see at a horse show today.
Now THAT is an easy one to understand, without even seeing it go up and down (-:
Heck, their brochure probably shows it and even a picture should be enough.

I don't need the Kioti dealer.... We designed their first MSL loader. And the second and the third....

 

[TBDonnelly]

I don't need the Kioti dealer.... We designed their first MSL loader. And the second and the third....

rback,
I wish you guys would have built a KMW version of the Kioti KL120/130's FEL's. Kioti would have been much farther ahead.

Don

 

[rback33]

rback,
I wish you guys would have built a KMW version of the Kioti KL120/130's FEL's. Kioti would have been much farther ahead.

Don

That makes two of us Don! We have talked about going ahead and quoting it, but they have never sent us a tractor. The person who was pushing it passed away recently so I doubt we ever get the chance.

 

[Reg]

I don't need the Kioti dealer.... We designed their first MSL loader. And the second and the third....

Who, which "We" ?
Are YOU a principle designer there ?

 

[AndyMA]

I have one on my New Hollland TN75D and while it is great for fork work, it severely limits bucket rollback for bucket work, ie: loading materials. That's why usually for straught bucket work I'll use a tractor without it.

Andy

 

[MtnViewRanch]

It has evolved a great deal, but it is still the same basic design. It cannot be turned off and on. The only thing you can do is un-plumb it and re-plumb as needed. It only takes a few minutes to do.

Not really practical to plumb and un-plumb it several times a day, or sometimes even minutes apart. I hope that the new one has improvements in it, because I know that I would not purchase it again if it was the same as mine.

 

[schmism]

I found a picture of my loader, with the most basic (and most true) form of parallel linkage:
You can see the blue and purple lines i drew, connecting the linkage pins of the main boom and the parallel links.

i got lost in all the hydraulic mumble jumbo.

from the pic posted in that quoted post, (and from what ive seen in person) there is no way to bind a properly designed mechanical parallel arm system.

leave all the hydraulic bypass BS out of it. K.I.S.S.