front bucket dropping overnight

[4570Man]

What RickB said. But 4570Man, that machine looks like one ****-of-a fixer-upper! Wonder what you could get it for?

No idea but I opted out of buying a bigger one than that for $800 because it weighed 30k.

 

[LD1]

I read some of this thread and "WOW" is all I can say. I'll add my .02 cents worth. I've never seen a bucket that didn't leak down. They can leak down at the piston by leaking internally by the piston seal or at the loader valve "o" rings.

The first part of what you said about leaking down via leaking past piston seals internally.....only applies to cylinder extension. Bucket curl/dump typically.

It can't happen with the loader lift cylinders, as those compress to cause drift.

Oh, and the sealing area in the valve as it pertains to drift....no o-rings there.

 

[JimR]

6) Leakage test for the boom cylinders/spool.

Place a load in the bucket that induces a pressure reading in the boom cylinder base end of approximately 1000 psi. Raise to approximately mid-stroke. After a short period of time note the pressure on the rod end side of the boom cylinders. It should be near zero and not increasing. If it is not near zero or is increasing, oil is leaking past one or both of the boom cylinder piston seals and the cylinders need to be repaired or replaced.

7) If the boom rod end pressure remains low, use a marking pen to mark a line on the cylinder rod 10 inches away from the cylinder gland.
After a set period of time measure the distance between the line and the gland and subtract the distance from 10 to determine how much the cylinder has retracted. Using the boom cylinder bore diameter, calculate the area of the bore in square inches. Take the area of the bore times the number of inches the cylinder has retracted and divide this product by the time between measurements to determine the leakage rate per cylinder in ins/min. Since there are two cylinders, take this number times two for the leakage rate of the boom spool of the valve. Contact the factory to see if this rate exceeds the allowable rate.

 

[K5lwq]

I am so glad the OP did not have an actual issue as he would be totally confused by now.

Bottom line is just because the cylinder is collapsing doesn't mean the valve is out of spec. Bad seals will allow it to fall at a faster rate.

However, if by some miracle the valve has zero internal leakage, then bad seals or not the cylinder could not collapse.

 

[Diggin It]

Hmmm.....

Since this thread, I've been watching closer. Normally, I've been dropping the bucket to the ground before I walk away, either before or after shutting the engine off. There have been a few times I've deliberately left it up a few inches just to check it in the morning. As best I can recall, it was always up the next morning, but I didn't really take meticulous notes.

In the past few days though, I've noticed it's been on the ground in the morning when I know I left it up the night before. Today I used it for about an hour and left the bucket up about 6 inches. I just went out and looked and it's down lower than that. Raining, so I didn't measure.

The only thing different that I know of is the 50 hour filter change where I also changed fluid, adding the Traveler's Premium that was recommended here.

Now, I don't care a hoot about the bucket dropping overnight **UNLESS** it's an indicator of something else going on. Do I have reason to be concerned after the fluid and filter change? I haven't really noticed any other operational differences, but I haven't been watching all that closely.

FEL is on, but the MMM and BH are off.

 

[Looking4new]

I always park with the bucket angled down so no water/snow collects in the bucket. I have a tooth bar on mine so the teeth just rest on the ground. To the best of my knowledge my loader doesn't leak.

 

[K5lwq]

No Sir, I don't believe you have anything to worry about. If the amount of drift does not hinder your ability to complete whatever tasks you need to do, I wouldn't worry at all. :thumbsup:

 

[Diggin It]

You talkin' to me?


My concern is .... if it's doing it after the fluid change and might be the result of the fluid (which I don't know for sure either way), could other problems develop? I've been told by people here and my dealer that the Traveler's Premium is the right fluid, but what if it isn't?

 

[K5lwq]

You talkin' to me?


My concern is .... if it's doing it after the fluid change and might be the result of the fluid (which I don't know for sure either way), could other problems develop? I've been told by people here and my dealer that the Traveler's Premium is the right fluid, but what if it isn't?

Yes Sir, I was talking to you.

I use Traveler's without any issues. Other problems can always develop, but I don't believe it will be a result of using Traveler's.

 

[ch1ch2]

Lets say the extend side of the control valve is perfect and no leak occurs.
Lets say the retract side of the control valve is lest than perfect and a leak does occur.

Now with a bad piston seal a leak down will occur.
Replace the piston seal and no leak.

Now does that help confuse anyone?

 

[LD1]

Lets say the extend side of the control valve is perfect and no leak occurs.
Lets say the retract side of the control valve is lest than perfect and a leak does occur.

Now with a bad piston seal a leak down will occur.
Replace the piston seal and no leak.

Now does that help confuse anyone?

Not me

 

[sd455dan]

Since we are talking about dropping buckets Ahem...



My bucket (Curl) -Not the boom lift cylinders, have been slowly extending with anything heavy mounted like the grapple.
Normally i don't see drift even after a few days of either circuit.

Looks like there is a small leak near the FEL control valve
believe it is ORB/SAE (adjustable)90* line connection. It also is a bit loose feeling in the 90* (unlike the other 3)

Guess I need to see if the local farm supply has ORB to pipe- so I can build a new line. Is ORB to NPT something that is usually carried at say Co-Op or other small farm store?

Yeah need to drive to town - just taking bets on whether this is a common enough fitting to be carried at the average local farm store and if this will fix the sagging curl function- My guess is it will fix the sag but not so sure anyone will have ORB to pipe.

 

[LD1]

Since we are talking about dropping buckets Ahem...



My bucket (Curl) -Not the boom lift cylinders, have been slowly extending with anything heavy mounted like the grapple.
Normally i don't see drift even after a few days of either circuit.

Looks like there is a small leak near the FEL control valve
believe it is ORB/SAE (adjustable)90* line connection. It also is a bit loose feeling in the 90* (unlike the other 3)

Guess I need to see if the local farm supply has ORB to pipe- so I can build a new line. Is ORB to NPT something that is usually carried at say Co-Op or other small farm store?

Yeah need to drive to town - just taking bets on whether this is a common enough fitting to be carried at the average local farm store and if this will fix the sagging curl function- My guess is it will fix the sag but not so sure anyone will have ORB to pipe.

If it's loose, I'd try tightening the nut first

 

[sd455dan]

If it's loose, I'd try tightening the nut first

Yeah, Got me there- my wording could have been better.
I should have said the (Adjustable angle) part is what is loose/leaking- not the O ring side that threads into the valve body.

Had to have the line made - It was ORB with a swivel and 90* crimped to the hose.
The swivel was bad.
Those Crimp ORBs with a swivel are pricey $25 just for it. Hopefully this fixes it.

Back to the thread

 

[Diggin It]

Seems to be getting better. Holding 'up' overnight again like it used to. Thinking maybe the system just needed time to purge all the air out.

 

[K5lwq]

Seems to be getting better. Holding 'up' overnight again like it used to. Thinking maybe the system just needed time to purge all the air out.

Glad it is back to normal! :thumbsup:

 

[jimglassford]

All of this discussion is a diagnostic. What about repairs. I do not see where Kioti sells a rebuild kit for the joystick valve. Every other tractor manufacturer does.

 

[DieselBound]

I'd figure that it's just a matter of some simple seals, something that a decent hydraulics shop could probably take care of. Reminds me, I've been putting off fixing the loader control valve on my B7800: it's been leaking for several years now; I do, however, have some seals ready to go.

 

[ritcheyvs]

All of this discussion is a diagnostic. What about repairs. I do not see where Kioti sells a rebuild kit for the joystick valve. Every other tractor manufacturer does.

I don't know about a kit but it appears all the individual parts can be ordered. For example see here.

 

[jimglassford]

The link only shows you can order the main parts, not the seals. In order to repair leaks, you will have to order new spools with the seals. As for the seals being easily sourced from a hydraulic supplier, I wonder if this is true, unless someone did just that.

This is the problem with Kioti, if the Power Steering valve leaks, you buy a new valve for $2000 versus installing new components. The same is true for the hydraulic pump. Other manufacturers offer the seals.