OP
Bob_Trevithick
Platinum Member
Thanks, Terry!
Foster kids
- Thread starter Bob_Trevithick
- Start date
- Views: 6911
Mark_in_NH
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2002
- Messages
- 1,555
- Location
- Moultonborough, New Hampshire
- Tractor
- New Holland TC35D w/ 16LA FEL
Bob, I can only imagine what life must be like for a child that has been moved from home to home. It's easy to understand how they might focus on material things rather than what is truly important in life. Love, Family and Tractors. It was probably easier and safer to become close to a toy or a swimming pool than to open up to or learn to care for someone they may have to leave with short notice.
So whats the answer ?
Lots of Love, Patience, Acceptance, a sense of Security, Seat Time.
The list goes on. The gift you are giving these children is also a gift to yourselves, for the rewards to all of you will be endless. You and your wife are clearly one of the reason I am proud to be a member of the TBN.
Thank you !!!!!
So whats the answer ?
Lots of Love, Patience, Acceptance, a sense of Security, Seat Time.
The list goes on. The gift you are giving these children is also a gift to yourselves, for the rewards to all of you will be endless. You and your wife are clearly one of the reason I am proud to be a member of the TBN.
Thank you !!!!!
Turfman
Gold Member
Bob, They all seem to focus on the material, because they can't trust. That is a relationship that takes a great deal of time and work. My current foster daughter does not trust men. It's been a long 8 months telling her I love her and having her turn away because she doesn't trust me.
Set rules and a firm, but fair enforcing of them goes a long way in solving problems. Most of these problems are the result of years of poor training/example and don't solved overnight. Best of luck and I responded privately to your message.
Kevin
Set rules and a firm, but fair enforcing of them goes a long way in solving problems. Most of these problems are the result of years of poor training/example and don't solved overnight. Best of luck and I responded privately to your message.
Kevin
dmccarty
Super Star Member
Bob,
Are you getting any sleep? /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Sounds like you are giving the kids what they need, Love.
Hopefully, they can have the time to accept the Love and
have as a normal a childhood as they can. Sounds like the
little girl's childhood has been hell so far...
Some people should never get out of prison.
Years ago a few things came togather in my life at one time. One
of those strange things that happens from time to time I suppose. I
was in a Law Enforcement Academy and some of the courses are
on ****** assault, victims, etc. One of the instructors was very
open about being abused by her father. He sexually abused both her
and her sister. At the same time, must have been some wierd
juxtapostion of the universe, the women I was dating at that time
had been raped by dear old dad and other family members.
I can't remember how such a tidbit of information just got dropped
into a conversation but it did. My instructor and I had some after
class discussions and she pointed me to some books to read.
The books opened a door, which frankly I wish remained closed, that
gave me an understanding of a huge problem that exists but is not
really recognized, children being sexually abused. I think there is more
understanding today than there was years ago but I still don't think
most people know how much this occurs. And that is often a family
member and not some guy hiding in the bushes.
I'm not sure how, but the books/classes somehow allowed me to pick
up on words, hints, if you will from another girlfriend that she was
abused by her dear old dad. We had a few converstations about her
being abused but the scars where relevent decades after the events.
And with my wonderful new understanding I started thinking about
other women I knew and wondering if they had been victims. It
certainly would have explained some things....
There was a third and forth girlfriend that I'm 99% sure had been
victims as well...
Now don't think think I'm running around with all these women at
one time! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif This was over a two plus year period of time!
/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
GirlFriend Number One ended the relationship when I made it
known I was going to go into a law enforcement academy. I
was not quitting my day job but it was enough to drop me like
a hot potato. Her father was a MP in the Air Force. He had
sexually abused his daughters for years as well as his wife.
And where there is ****** abuse there is often physical abuse.
So the whole family wife, daughters and brothers, where physically
abused. Another little tid bit from the books and her life, when
****** abuse occurs AND there are older brothers, guess who often
starts abusing the younger sisters. Children do learn behaviors. /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif
My best guess at the ending of the relationship was caused by my
going into the academy because that was her dad's profession.
GirlFriend number Two simply could not handle a relationship with
someone her age. She had married a much older man, gotten
divorced and was more interested in older men.
Girlfriends Three and Four, sheese, they are to complicated to
discuss! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Having said all of the above one can off the deep end and think the
abuse is everywhere. NC had the "Little Rascals Day Care" ****** abuse
witch hunt in the late 80s where many people have served prison
sentences for things that did not happen. There was some
incompetent law enforcement work done in those cases. There
are people in prison today who simply should not be there but are being
held for polictical reasons. The Wall Street Journal has been documenting
some of these cases for years.
So one can't go to the other extreme and see these crimes everywhere.
They are not. But they occur more often than I think most people realize.
Sheese, I'm long winded on this. Hopefully none of this applies to your
kids. I just threw all of this out on the TBN "channel" as information.
Maybe it will help someone, somehow, sometime.
Two things are for sure. Your kids need Love and time. And YOU and
your WIFE are doing a very NOBLE deed.
Take the kids hiking if you can. Walk a trail that is only a mile long.
At the end ask them if they have ever hiked a mile before. Next time
hike a two or three mile trail. Repeat Until the family gets up to six
or more miles. That is an accomplishment many can do but don't.
Maybe that will be one small step to building their self esteem.
I was telling my wife about you guys taking in the children just
last night. Then I came in today and saw the new posts. Keep
TBN up to date....
Later...
Dan
Are you getting any sleep? /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Sounds like you are giving the kids what they need, Love.
Hopefully, they can have the time to accept the Love and
have as a normal a childhood as they can. Sounds like the
little girl's childhood has been hell so far...
Some people should never get out of prison.
Years ago a few things came togather in my life at one time. One
of those strange things that happens from time to time I suppose. I
was in a Law Enforcement Academy and some of the courses are
on ****** assault, victims, etc. One of the instructors was very
open about being abused by her father. He sexually abused both her
and her sister. At the same time, must have been some wierd
juxtapostion of the universe, the women I was dating at that time
had been raped by dear old dad and other family members.
I can't remember how such a tidbit of information just got dropped
into a conversation but it did. My instructor and I had some after
class discussions and she pointed me to some books to read.
The books opened a door, which frankly I wish remained closed, that
gave me an understanding of a huge problem that exists but is not
really recognized, children being sexually abused. I think there is more
understanding today than there was years ago but I still don't think
most people know how much this occurs. And that is often a family
member and not some guy hiding in the bushes.
I'm not sure how, but the books/classes somehow allowed me to pick
up on words, hints, if you will from another girlfriend that she was
abused by her dear old dad. We had a few converstations about her
being abused but the scars where relevent decades after the events.
And with my wonderful new understanding I started thinking about
other women I knew and wondering if they had been victims. It
certainly would have explained some things....
There was a third and forth girlfriend that I'm 99% sure had been
victims as well...
Now don't think think I'm running around with all these women at
one time! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif This was over a two plus year period of time!
/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
GirlFriend Number One ended the relationship when I made it
known I was going to go into a law enforcement academy. I
was not quitting my day job but it was enough to drop me like
a hot potato. Her father was a MP in the Air Force. He had
sexually abused his daughters for years as well as his wife.
And where there is ****** abuse there is often physical abuse.
So the whole family wife, daughters and brothers, where physically
abused. Another little tid bit from the books and her life, when
****** abuse occurs AND there are older brothers, guess who often
starts abusing the younger sisters. Children do learn behaviors. /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif
My best guess at the ending of the relationship was caused by my
going into the academy because that was her dad's profession.
GirlFriend number Two simply could not handle a relationship with
someone her age. She had married a much older man, gotten
divorced and was more interested in older men.
Girlfriends Three and Four, sheese, they are to complicated to
discuss! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Having said all of the above one can off the deep end and think the
abuse is everywhere. NC had the "Little Rascals Day Care" ****** abuse
witch hunt in the late 80s where many people have served prison
sentences for things that did not happen. There was some
incompetent law enforcement work done in those cases. There
are people in prison today who simply should not be there but are being
held for polictical reasons. The Wall Street Journal has been documenting
some of these cases for years.
So one can't go to the other extreme and see these crimes everywhere.
They are not. But they occur more often than I think most people realize.
Sheese, I'm long winded on this. Hopefully none of this applies to your
kids. I just threw all of this out on the TBN "channel" as information.
Maybe it will help someone, somehow, sometime.
Two things are for sure. Your kids need Love and time. And YOU and
your WIFE are doing a very NOBLE deed.
Take the kids hiking if you can. Walk a trail that is only a mile long.
At the end ask them if they have ever hiked a mile before. Next time
hike a two or three mile trail. Repeat Until the family gets up to six
or more miles. That is an accomplishment many can do but don't.
Maybe that will be one small step to building their self esteem.
I was telling my wife about you guys taking in the children just
last night. Then I came in today and saw the new posts. Keep
TBN up to date....
Later...
Dan
OP
Bob_Trevithick
Platinum Member
Hi Dan,
Thanks very much for your detailed note. Yes, I often wonder about ****** abuse with these kids. They were clearly neglected, but nothing has ever come out, yet, about ****** abuse. Still, the mother lived (until a couple weeks ago) with a pedophile, who is now in jail for yet another child-molestation case. One has to wonder...
An interesting thing came out the other night. The girl had a small bruise on her face, and we asked her about it. She didn't want to tell us, but we were persistent. It turns out that she hits herself when she is angry. We told social services and the counselors, and in four years they had never learned this. So, progress already! Now we will teach her some alternatives for dealing with anger. It's sad.. so many children are out there having children.. and not giving them even the slightest hint of how to survive in society. It's like these kids were raised by wolves.. we are currently working on teaching what is, and is not, finger food. /w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif
To all of the law enforecement folks here, I need some advice. I just recently got married, and now have the two kids, and it occurred to me that I can't defend my family if I need to! Someone sent me a note recently that highlighted the problems you can get into as foster parents.. angry relatives, lunatic boyfriends, etc., who may show up and want revenge on kids who ratted them out. Made me think.. what would/should I do if that ever happens? My boss, in a previous career, was head of Child Protective Services, and says that while most of these losers are full of bravado and have no real substance, he still wouldn't even consider living in the country without having a good shotgun. I'm not a big guy, and the only fight I've ever been in the other kid ran away before a punch was ever thrown, so I'm not exactly an action hero type! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif Still, I would like your advice. What would the law enforcement community recommend to someone in my position? (BTW, my dad taught me to use guns safely.)
Thanks,
Bob
Thanks very much for your detailed note. Yes, I often wonder about ****** abuse with these kids. They were clearly neglected, but nothing has ever come out, yet, about ****** abuse. Still, the mother lived (until a couple weeks ago) with a pedophile, who is now in jail for yet another child-molestation case. One has to wonder...
An interesting thing came out the other night. The girl had a small bruise on her face, and we asked her about it. She didn't want to tell us, but we were persistent. It turns out that she hits herself when she is angry. We told social services and the counselors, and in four years they had never learned this. So, progress already! Now we will teach her some alternatives for dealing with anger. It's sad.. so many children are out there having children.. and not giving them even the slightest hint of how to survive in society. It's like these kids were raised by wolves.. we are currently working on teaching what is, and is not, finger food. /w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif
To all of the law enforecement folks here, I need some advice. I just recently got married, and now have the two kids, and it occurred to me that I can't defend my family if I need to! Someone sent me a note recently that highlighted the problems you can get into as foster parents.. angry relatives, lunatic boyfriends, etc., who may show up and want revenge on kids who ratted them out. Made me think.. what would/should I do if that ever happens? My boss, in a previous career, was head of Child Protective Services, and says that while most of these losers are full of bravado and have no real substance, he still wouldn't even consider living in the country without having a good shotgun. I'm not a big guy, and the only fight I've ever been in the other kid ran away before a punch was ever thrown, so I'm not exactly an action hero type! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif Still, I would like your advice. What would the law enforcement community recommend to someone in my position? (BTW, my dad taught me to use guns safely.)
Thanks,
Bob
dmccarty
Super Star Member
Bob,
For self defense there is not one right answer it depends on one's requirements.
Just like a tractor! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
First check the state/local laws. Can a private citizen in NY state own a pistol
or revolver? Does the Foster Care system prevent you from having weapons
in the house? In this day and age it would not suprise me.... And one REALLY
needs to know WHEN one can use deadly force. There are some nuances in the
NC law on deadly force, at least how I understand it, that just don't make sense.
Use of Deadly Force in NC can only be used to prevent someone from being killed.
There are a few other exceptions like prison guards using deadly force to prevent
an escape but the way I always have simplified it in my head is if the threat is
not a deadly threat to me or others you danged well better not be responding with
deadly force. If you do its going to get real ugly...
Soooo, if there is a man standing in your living room and you shoot him you might
have a problem. What was he threatening you with? Did he have a weapon? Is
there a difference in your size and his? Say he is a real small unarmed man and
the home owner is 6' 6" tall, runs 6 miles a couple times a week and bench
presses 500 pounds. If our home owner shoots the little burgler he likely is going
to have problems.
On the other hand, if you reverse the size so that the home owner is smaller
than our long running, heavy lifting burgler, things might be a bit different because
of the disparrity in physical differences.
Now here is where NC law is really strange and likely differs from other/all states.
In NC, at least how it was explained to me, if someone is kicking down your door,
a home owner could shoot through the door. Which implies a few things. One,
the home owner is using deadly force. Duh! Two, the intruder is someone a deadly
threat to said home owner. Three, the home owner does not need to see if our
bad guy is a larger or carrying a weapon. Seems real reasonable to me but ** I **
would NOT shoot through a door to stop someone from getting into the house.
Its just asking for a DA running for office to latch on to my buttucks....
So one really should know the statues AND THE CASE LAW on deadly force. If there
are concealed carry classes, take them since they had better be covering Deadly Force
law. The CASE LAW is as important as the statutes and ** I ** DON"T want my
actions to be used to make CASE LAW! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
For instance, in Florida back in the mid to late 80's it was legal to use Deadly Force,
to prevent a burglery. The statue said so. A man, I think it was in West Palm Beach,
came home one afternoon and caught another man running from his house with the
home owners TV set. The home owner ran after the burlger and fired at the thief
witha 32/380 "Saturday Night Special." The home owner managed to hit the
thief in the head and killed him. I was in another academy and one of the instructers
had fired the weapon that was used. The pistol either fired left or right but it did not
fire straight. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif The DA took the man to court on murder charges EVEN though
current statutes said the home owner was with in the law to using Deadly Force. He
was acquitted but he still had to pay for a lawyer(s) for his defense and he endured
a HECK of a lot of stress for a cheap TV set....
There is a Federal case that limits deadly force for law enforcement. Sheese, I
SHOULD remember the case but I can at the moment. Anyway the details are
the important part. The summary of the case was that a TN officer shot and
killed a teenager who was fleeing a home that the kid had just burgled. The
kid was unarmed, never threatened the office, and I think the officer knew
the kid. The state statue said the officer acted within the law. The Federal
Supreme Court said otherwise.... Guess who lost?
Did I mention that ** I ** don't want my actions to be use in making Case Law?
/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif There is my interpretation of the law, not very good, there is the lawyer's
interpretation and finally there this what the jury and judge decide. Guess who
as the most weight? /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
So you want a firearm for self defense? /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Lets get the easy one out of the way. I don't think rifles are great self
defense weapons for the house. They just have to much power and
depending on the cartridge/bullet will overpentrate the bad guy and
a walls. A 30-30 or 45-70 might limit such a problem but any high
powered rifle cartridge is a problem.
So that leaves handguns and shotguns.
The problems with shotguns AND rifles is that they are long and hard
to weld in a confined space like a hallway or bathroom. Safe storage
AND quick access is also more difficult with long guns. But in some
localities there may be no choice since handguns are outlawed.
Shotguns are pretty powerful weapons. Certainly more saw than
a handgun and many a rifle. But you still have the safe storage
and quick access problem. And with a 12 guage smaller people
might have a problem with recoil. Semiautos do take off the edge
off the recoil though and there are butt pads as well as stocks
that can really drop the recoil. 20 gauges certainly has less recoil.
Pumps are cheaper than auto loaders. Remington 870's have been
around for darned near forever, are cheap and reliable. Winchester,
I think its the 1170 is the same. I don't know if either is in 20 gauge.
Since shotguns can use slugs, buck shot or smaller shot one has
to choose what to use. Outside a long range, slugs could be
usefull. Indoors one has to worry about misses and over penetration
of walls. So it has to be buck shot or less.
Pump shotguns can be jammed when loading. Not a good thing. And
its easy to do when stressed. I've seen officers do it during range
training. Nobody is trying to kill them in training. The level of
stress while it can be high certainly is less then someone trying
to kill me or my family. So if the gun is stored unloaded then it
was to be quickly loaded which can be a problem. Most pumps
hold four rounds.
A double barrled shotgun is pretty hard to missload or jam! But
it only hold two rounds. On the other hand they are dang easy
and fast to load.
Pistols require a bit of work to load and operated. I guess they are
on par with pump/auto shotguns. However they can be a problem
with people with small hands and/or low strength. Its a very
individual specific issue and the only way to know is to try to
operate the slide, safety, and release on the weaon.
Revolvers are really simple. Load them, pull the trigger and
they go boom. I have seen the get jammed and its truely
an ugly event but if good quaility ammo is used this should
not happen. But the revolver should fit the person.
Really what counts is getting something that you can and will practice
with so that you can develop skills and familarity with the weapon. One
really has to be able to use the weapon without thought. If it jams, there
should be no thought of "Oh Shoot, it won't shoot!" Your body is already
clearing the jam.
Hope this helps...
Dan McCarty
For self defense there is not one right answer it depends on one's requirements.
Just like a tractor! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
First check the state/local laws. Can a private citizen in NY state own a pistol
or revolver? Does the Foster Care system prevent you from having weapons
in the house? In this day and age it would not suprise me.... And one REALLY
needs to know WHEN one can use deadly force. There are some nuances in the
NC law on deadly force, at least how I understand it, that just don't make sense.
Use of Deadly Force in NC can only be used to prevent someone from being killed.
There are a few other exceptions like prison guards using deadly force to prevent
an escape but the way I always have simplified it in my head is if the threat is
not a deadly threat to me or others you danged well better not be responding with
deadly force. If you do its going to get real ugly...
Soooo, if there is a man standing in your living room and you shoot him you might
have a problem. What was he threatening you with? Did he have a weapon? Is
there a difference in your size and his? Say he is a real small unarmed man and
the home owner is 6' 6" tall, runs 6 miles a couple times a week and bench
presses 500 pounds. If our home owner shoots the little burgler he likely is going
to have problems.
On the other hand, if you reverse the size so that the home owner is smaller
than our long running, heavy lifting burgler, things might be a bit different because
of the disparrity in physical differences.
Now here is where NC law is really strange and likely differs from other/all states.
In NC, at least how it was explained to me, if someone is kicking down your door,
a home owner could shoot through the door. Which implies a few things. One,
the home owner is using deadly force. Duh! Two, the intruder is someone a deadly
threat to said home owner. Three, the home owner does not need to see if our
bad guy is a larger or carrying a weapon. Seems real reasonable to me but ** I **
would NOT shoot through a door to stop someone from getting into the house.
Its just asking for a DA running for office to latch on to my buttucks....
So one really should know the statues AND THE CASE LAW on deadly force. If there
are concealed carry classes, take them since they had better be covering Deadly Force
law. The CASE LAW is as important as the statutes and ** I ** DON"T want my
actions to be used to make CASE LAW! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
For instance, in Florida back in the mid to late 80's it was legal to use Deadly Force,
to prevent a burglery. The statue said so. A man, I think it was in West Palm Beach,
came home one afternoon and caught another man running from his house with the
home owners TV set. The home owner ran after the burlger and fired at the thief
witha 32/380 "Saturday Night Special." The home owner managed to hit the
thief in the head and killed him. I was in another academy and one of the instructers
had fired the weapon that was used. The pistol either fired left or right but it did not
fire straight. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif The DA took the man to court on murder charges EVEN though
current statutes said the home owner was with in the law to using Deadly Force. He
was acquitted but he still had to pay for a lawyer(s) for his defense and he endured
a HECK of a lot of stress for a cheap TV set....
There is a Federal case that limits deadly force for law enforcement. Sheese, I
SHOULD remember the case but I can at the moment. Anyway the details are
the important part. The summary of the case was that a TN officer shot and
killed a teenager who was fleeing a home that the kid had just burgled. The
kid was unarmed, never threatened the office, and I think the officer knew
the kid. The state statue said the officer acted within the law. The Federal
Supreme Court said otherwise.... Guess who lost?
Did I mention that ** I ** don't want my actions to be use in making Case Law?
/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif There is my interpretation of the law, not very good, there is the lawyer's
interpretation and finally there this what the jury and judge decide. Guess who
as the most weight? /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
So you want a firearm for self defense? /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Lets get the easy one out of the way. I don't think rifles are great self
defense weapons for the house. They just have to much power and
depending on the cartridge/bullet will overpentrate the bad guy and
a walls. A 30-30 or 45-70 might limit such a problem but any high
powered rifle cartridge is a problem.
So that leaves handguns and shotguns.
The problems with shotguns AND rifles is that they are long and hard
to weld in a confined space like a hallway or bathroom. Safe storage
AND quick access is also more difficult with long guns. But in some
localities there may be no choice since handguns are outlawed.
Shotguns are pretty powerful weapons. Certainly more saw than
a handgun and many a rifle. But you still have the safe storage
and quick access problem. And with a 12 guage smaller people
might have a problem with recoil. Semiautos do take off the edge
off the recoil though and there are butt pads as well as stocks
that can really drop the recoil. 20 gauges certainly has less recoil.
Pumps are cheaper than auto loaders. Remington 870's have been
around for darned near forever, are cheap and reliable. Winchester,
I think its the 1170 is the same. I don't know if either is in 20 gauge.
Since shotguns can use slugs, buck shot or smaller shot one has
to choose what to use. Outside a long range, slugs could be
usefull. Indoors one has to worry about misses and over penetration
of walls. So it has to be buck shot or less.
Pump shotguns can be jammed when loading. Not a good thing. And
its easy to do when stressed. I've seen officers do it during range
training. Nobody is trying to kill them in training. The level of
stress while it can be high certainly is less then someone trying
to kill me or my family. So if the gun is stored unloaded then it
was to be quickly loaded which can be a problem. Most pumps
hold four rounds.
A double barrled shotgun is pretty hard to missload or jam! But
it only hold two rounds. On the other hand they are dang easy
and fast to load.
Pistols require a bit of work to load and operated. I guess they are
on par with pump/auto shotguns. However they can be a problem
with people with small hands and/or low strength. Its a very
individual specific issue and the only way to know is to try to
operate the slide, safety, and release on the weaon.
Revolvers are really simple. Load them, pull the trigger and
they go boom. I have seen the get jammed and its truely
an ugly event but if good quaility ammo is used this should
not happen. But the revolver should fit the person.
Really what counts is getting something that you can and will practice
with so that you can develop skills and familarity with the weapon. One
really has to be able to use the weapon without thought. If it jams, there
should be no thought of "Oh Shoot, it won't shoot!" Your body is already
clearing the jam.
Hope this helps...
Dan McCarty
Bird
Rest in Peace
Bob, I was a bit reluctant to try to respond to your question because there are so many things to consider. I think Dan has done a good job of responding, and I'll add just a couple of thoughts. First, you might consider the odds - what are the chances that someone will break into your home and/or be enough of a threat to your family that you might need a weapon? Of course, it happens, but it's rare enough that it usually makes big news when it does. Then you say you were taught to use guns safely; that's good, but when it comes to shooting another person, are you willing to do so and think you can do it? Several years ago, Dallas lost a police officer in a robbery. He had every advantage and opportunity to shoot the hijacker; couldn't pull the trigger, so he was shot and killed. And now a lot of states have laws that make you responsible if a child is able to gain access to a firearm in your home and an accident occurs. If you actually do secure the weapon so no child can gain access, how long will it take you to gain access if you need it?
So the bottom line is that I've owned firearms since I was 11 years old, so I'll probably continue to do so, but don't know what to recommend for other folks. If you are going to have a firearm in the house, I'm inclined to agree with your boss that a shotgun would be first choice.
So the bottom line is that I've owned firearms since I was 11 years old, so I'll probably continue to do so, but don't know what to recommend for other folks. If you are going to have a firearm in the house, I'm inclined to agree with your boss that a shotgun would be first choice.
MikePA
Super Moderator
<font color=blue>but when it comes to shooting another person, are you willing to do so and think you can do it?</font color=blue>
A few weeks ago there was a show on the Discovery Channel (I think) where they followed a group of people as they went through the 16 week FBI agent training class. One of the classes they showed was the classroom portion of the fire arms training. The first thing the instructor (an FBI agent) asked the students was just what Bird mentioned, i.e., "Are you willing to take a human life?". So, if the FBI asks this question first, then it must be both pretty important and something they could not assume. No matter how deserving someone was to be shot, I imagine that knowing you were the instrument by which someone was ushered into eternity is no small matter.
A few weeks ago there was a show on the Discovery Channel (I think) where they followed a group of people as they went through the 16 week FBI agent training class. One of the classes they showed was the classroom portion of the fire arms training. The first thing the instructor (an FBI agent) asked the students was just what Bird mentioned, i.e., "Are you willing to take a human life?". So, if the FBI asks this question first, then it must be both pretty important and something they could not assume. No matter how deserving someone was to be shot, I imagine that knowing you were the instrument by which someone was ushered into eternity is no small matter.
OP
Bob_Trevithick
Platinum Member
Dan, Bird and Mike,
Thanks for the great thoughts! And yes, I realized after I posted that this might be a question people would prefer not to reply to on an open board. I appreciate that you did!
I've also heard from a State Trooper who suggested that people not use guns at all without lots of proper training.. and of course I know he's right.
I'll have to give this a lot of thought. Maybe I should get into shape and take martial arts classes instead. Hmm, getting into shape.. might be a problem there. And somehow I suspect it takes more than a week or two to become a Jet Li. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
I should do some research.. like, how many times have criminals been scared off by the mere sight of a gun, without it having to be used? Or is it true that if you aren't willing to use it, it's best not to have it at all?
I don't know if I could take a life. If someone was murdering my wife, yeah.. I think so. But in less dire circumstances.. hmm. I don't know. Shoot for the legs with birdshot and just try to disable?
I didn't know what a complex subject I was opening up here!
Well, we started the kids in martial arts classes for their self-esteem.. maybe we can let them protect us?
On a lighter note, the boy came back from his class and wanted to show my wife a great way to get out of a strangle hold. He showed her how he would kick her in the testicles.. which, after we stopped "coughing", made us realize there was another whole world of information which needed to be imparted to these kids. /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif
Never a dull moment with new kids!
Thanks again guys, I really appreciate the time and thought that went into your replies. I'm not sure yet what I'll end up doing, but you gave me a real good start.
Bob
Thanks for the great thoughts! And yes, I realized after I posted that this might be a question people would prefer not to reply to on an open board. I appreciate that you did!
I've also heard from a State Trooper who suggested that people not use guns at all without lots of proper training.. and of course I know he's right.
I'll have to give this a lot of thought. Maybe I should get into shape and take martial arts classes instead. Hmm, getting into shape.. might be a problem there. And somehow I suspect it takes more than a week or two to become a Jet Li. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
I should do some research.. like, how many times have criminals been scared off by the mere sight of a gun, without it having to be used? Or is it true that if you aren't willing to use it, it's best not to have it at all?
I don't know if I could take a life. If someone was murdering my wife, yeah.. I think so. But in less dire circumstances.. hmm. I don't know. Shoot for the legs with birdshot and just try to disable?
I didn't know what a complex subject I was opening up here!
Well, we started the kids in martial arts classes for their self-esteem.. maybe we can let them protect us?
On a lighter note, the boy came back from his class and wanted to show my wife a great way to get out of a strangle hold. He showed her how he would kick her in the testicles.. which, after we stopped "coughing", made us realize there was another whole world of information which needed to be imparted to these kids. /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif
Never a dull moment with new kids!
Thanks again guys, I really appreciate the time and thought that went into your replies. I'm not sure yet what I'll end up doing, but you gave me a real good start.
Bob
Egon
Epic Contributor
Bob:
Perhaps a diet of beans and raw garlic would sufice to repel an antagonist!!
Seriously; Body language may suffice. The ability to anticipate, react and show confidence and no fear may be the best defence of all. There's always someone stronger, a little quicker, carries a bigger stick and a weapon is not always available or advisable.
Somewhere I have read that police can pick out people most likely to be mugged just by how they act.
Egon
Perhaps a diet of beans and raw garlic would sufice to repel an antagonist!!
Seriously; Body language may suffice. The ability to anticipate, react and show confidence and no fear may be the best defence of all. There's always someone stronger, a little quicker, carries a bigger stick and a weapon is not always available or advisable.
Somewhere I have read that police can pick out people most likely to be mugged just by how they act.
Egon
dmccarty
Super Star Member
Bob,
Lots to say. I'm sure I"ll forget something but here it goes....
Deadly Force is Deadly Force. There is none of this crap of
"I'll shoot him in the leg." and everything will be ok that people
are indoctrinated by the morons on TV. First of all one can
only use Deadly Force to when one has a reasonable belief
that a life is in danger. Now there is more to it depending
on state laws but ** I ** would NOT use Deadly Force in
any other situation. Its just asking for legal trouble at a
minimum and prison time as a likely result.
So a BadGuy is in someone's house. The BadGuy has a gun. The
GoodGuy thinks the BadGuy going kill him or his family. So he
shoots the BadGuy in the leg. Hmmmm. Does shooting the
BadGuy in the leg prevent him from shooting anyone else? No.
He is still a threat. And he has likely shot our GoodGuy.
People get shot all the time. Sometimes they drop dead. Most
often they still keep going. Even with wounds that will eventually
kill them. People who have been shot do NOT always drop to the
ground and stop their deadly actions. In fact they MOST OFTEN
do NOT.
Its not logical to shoot someone in the "arm" or the "leg" when they
are trying to kill you. Most people are going to miss shooting an arm
or leg anyway which will give the BadGuy more time to hurt the Good
Guy. Using Deadly Force is Deadly Force. If the BadGuy is NOT a
threat to GoodGuy's life then GoodGuy had better not use Deadly Force
otherwise GoodGuy is going to be treated like a BadGuy. If a life
is not at risk dont use Deadly Force.
If GoodGuy catches BadGuy trespassing on his land and then shoots
BadGuy in the leg the court is going to consider that a use of Deadly
Force. Telling the judge that "I only shot him in the leg." ain't going
to do a thing except be taken as an admission of guilt. Shooting AT
someone is a use of Deadly Force. Even if you intend to miss. If they
ain't threatening someone's life. Don't shoot....
Hope I cleared that up! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Dr. John Lott, who I believe is at the University of Chicago has done
lots, no pun intended, /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif of research on firearm use. He used
to be at the University of Florida but I'm pretty sure he has moved. The
liberals hate him because his research is so good they have to attack him and
not his results. I have an early book he wrote that said there are about
a million uses of a firearm to prevent a violent crime every year. His
latest research says two million uses. Most of the uses do NOT require
the firing of the firearm. Usually just the sight of the weapon causes
the BadGuy to run away.
Again YOU are responsible for YOUR family and only YOU can decide what
to do. I know the county where my property resides might only have 10
deputies on duty to cover the entire area. Response times are NOT
going to be very fast if I have a problem.... If you have law enfocement
that can respond quickly then maybe you are ok. But maybe you are not.
YOU do need to ask if you and your wife could use the weapon. If the
answer is no that tells you something. I was in a class once where the
instructer asked if the trainees could shot someone. He set up a situation
that was black and white. No if, ands or butts. You shoot BadGuy or
BadGuy shoots YOU. Only about a third of the class said they could shoot
the BadGuy. I was horrified. My reaction was you people need to leave.
And NOW! If you can't do this then I and the public do not need you on
the streets. But there it is...
There is another book called "On Killing." The author escapes me. Its
a very good read and I think the author is right on the money about
most of what he talks about. He sites a bunch of different books that
I have read but I never connected the dots like he did. The basic
premiss of "On Killing" is that most people are not condition to kill.
That Killing is very hard and difficult. Unless people are condition
to kill they find it difficult or impossible to do. "On Killing" provides
lots of evidence to back this up. And if you think about the statements,
the movies/TV shows, music, video games, etc., that we bombard our
kids with it should scare the heck of people....
But I digress! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Martial arts classes are good if they are the right classes. There
is a lot of crap in some classes. I studied for three years in
a school that was very good and did get into "street" fighting
techniques. Defending against knive and gun attacks for example.
There are many schools that don't teach such things. And maybe
they should not for all I know. But if our BadGuy is 22 feet away
from me with a gun pointed at me and I'm a 300 degree black belt
I think I'm gonna die if he shoots! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif I might have a slight
chance since I'm a 300 degree black belt but frankly I would rather
have my SW 4506-1. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
I picked 22 feet for a specific reason that maybe we will get into
later.
On the other hand a firearm is not always the right answer either. They
can be a liability as well.
BUT, it certainly is easier to learn to be proficient with a firearm than it is
to be proficient at a martial art. NC requires 40 hours of firearms training
during a Police Academy. Florida in the 80's was also 40 hours. That 40
hours include handguns and shotgun. So in a week and maybe a 1,000 rounds
someone is proficient.
After a year or so I was proficient in my martial arts. Maybe. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif Seemed
like the more I learned the more I knew I had to learn. Every month I would
think, "Wow, I really am getting to know what I'm doing." Which implies that
the previous month I did not. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Of course martial arts are FAR more than what we are talking about. And if
one is profiecient in a martial art and firearms, well, thats the cats meow!
/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Guess I had better wrap this up. I know I'm forgeting something but
I can always add to TBN! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Later...
Dan
Lots to say. I'm sure I"ll forget something but here it goes....
Deadly Force is Deadly Force. There is none of this crap of
"I'll shoot him in the leg." and everything will be ok that people
are indoctrinated by the morons on TV. First of all one can
only use Deadly Force to when one has a reasonable belief
that a life is in danger. Now there is more to it depending
on state laws but ** I ** would NOT use Deadly Force in
any other situation. Its just asking for legal trouble at a
minimum and prison time as a likely result.
So a BadGuy is in someone's house. The BadGuy has a gun. The
GoodGuy thinks the BadGuy going kill him or his family. So he
shoots the BadGuy in the leg. Hmmmm. Does shooting the
BadGuy in the leg prevent him from shooting anyone else? No.
He is still a threat. And he has likely shot our GoodGuy.
People get shot all the time. Sometimes they drop dead. Most
often they still keep going. Even with wounds that will eventually
kill them. People who have been shot do NOT always drop to the
ground and stop their deadly actions. In fact they MOST OFTEN
do NOT.
Its not logical to shoot someone in the "arm" or the "leg" when they
are trying to kill you. Most people are going to miss shooting an arm
or leg anyway which will give the BadGuy more time to hurt the Good
Guy. Using Deadly Force is Deadly Force. If the BadGuy is NOT a
threat to GoodGuy's life then GoodGuy had better not use Deadly Force
otherwise GoodGuy is going to be treated like a BadGuy. If a life
is not at risk dont use Deadly Force.
If GoodGuy catches BadGuy trespassing on his land and then shoots
BadGuy in the leg the court is going to consider that a use of Deadly
Force. Telling the judge that "I only shot him in the leg." ain't going
to do a thing except be taken as an admission of guilt. Shooting AT
someone is a use of Deadly Force. Even if you intend to miss. If they
ain't threatening someone's life. Don't shoot....
Hope I cleared that up! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Dr. John Lott, who I believe is at the University of Chicago has done
lots, no pun intended, /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif of research on firearm use. He used
to be at the University of Florida but I'm pretty sure he has moved. The
liberals hate him because his research is so good they have to attack him and
not his results. I have an early book he wrote that said there are about
a million uses of a firearm to prevent a violent crime every year. His
latest research says two million uses. Most of the uses do NOT require
the firing of the firearm. Usually just the sight of the weapon causes
the BadGuy to run away.
Again YOU are responsible for YOUR family and only YOU can decide what
to do. I know the county where my property resides might only have 10
deputies on duty to cover the entire area. Response times are NOT
going to be very fast if I have a problem.... If you have law enfocement
that can respond quickly then maybe you are ok. But maybe you are not.
YOU do need to ask if you and your wife could use the weapon. If the
answer is no that tells you something. I was in a class once where the
instructer asked if the trainees could shot someone. He set up a situation
that was black and white. No if, ands or butts. You shoot BadGuy or
BadGuy shoots YOU. Only about a third of the class said they could shoot
the BadGuy. I was horrified. My reaction was you people need to leave.
And NOW! If you can't do this then I and the public do not need you on
the streets. But there it is...
There is another book called "On Killing." The author escapes me. Its
a very good read and I think the author is right on the money about
most of what he talks about. He sites a bunch of different books that
I have read but I never connected the dots like he did. The basic
premiss of "On Killing" is that most people are not condition to kill.
That Killing is very hard and difficult. Unless people are condition
to kill they find it difficult or impossible to do. "On Killing" provides
lots of evidence to back this up. And if you think about the statements,
the movies/TV shows, music, video games, etc., that we bombard our
kids with it should scare the heck of people....
But I digress! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Martial arts classes are good if they are the right classes. There
is a lot of crap in some classes. I studied for three years in
a school that was very good and did get into "street" fighting
techniques. Defending against knive and gun attacks for example.
There are many schools that don't teach such things. And maybe
they should not for all I know. But if our BadGuy is 22 feet away
from me with a gun pointed at me and I'm a 300 degree black belt
I think I'm gonna die if he shoots! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif I might have a slight
chance since I'm a 300 degree black belt but frankly I would rather
have my SW 4506-1. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
I picked 22 feet for a specific reason that maybe we will get into
later.
On the other hand a firearm is not always the right answer either. They
can be a liability as well.
BUT, it certainly is easier to learn to be proficient with a firearm than it is
to be proficient at a martial art. NC requires 40 hours of firearms training
during a Police Academy. Florida in the 80's was also 40 hours. That 40
hours include handguns and shotgun. So in a week and maybe a 1,000 rounds
someone is proficient.
After a year or so I was proficient in my martial arts. Maybe. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif Seemed
like the more I learned the more I knew I had to learn. Every month I would
think, "Wow, I really am getting to know what I'm doing." Which implies that
the previous month I did not. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Of course martial arts are FAR more than what we are talking about. And if
one is profiecient in a martial art and firearms, well, thats the cats meow!
/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Guess I had better wrap this up. I know I'm forgeting something but
I can always add to TBN! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Later...
Dan
<font color=blue> I should do some research.. like, how many times have criminals been scared off by the mere sight of a gun, without it having to be used? Or is it true that if you aren't willing to use it, it's best not to have it at all? </font color=blue>
Just wanted to throw a couple of comments your way -
Regarding the "statistical research" portion - just be sure to always consider the source. Quite frankly, a lot of the "statistics" put out by "gun safety" organizations is highly "massaged" to imply that guns just get you into trouble. The NRA gets a bad wrap for a lot of things, and acknowledging that they have an agenda just as any other organization, they often give a much more complete picture of where they get and how they "massage" their stats.
Just personal opinion, but I agree with the statement that if you are unable to bring yourself to use deadly force in the appropriate situation, it's the same as putting the gun on the table for the bad guy to use. ("appropriate" is dictated by a:law; and b:your personal beliefs). Don't count on it scaring them off - It might - but I wouldn't be willing to bet my life on it (which, after all, is exactly what you are doing.)
Also, depending on where you live, it may actually be illegal to "shoot to mame" per se.
Just wanted to throw a couple of comments your way -
Regarding the "statistical research" portion - just be sure to always consider the source. Quite frankly, a lot of the "statistics" put out by "gun safety" organizations is highly "massaged" to imply that guns just get you into trouble. The NRA gets a bad wrap for a lot of things, and acknowledging that they have an agenda just as any other organization, they often give a much more complete picture of where they get and how they "massage" their stats.
Just personal opinion, but I agree with the statement that if you are unable to bring yourself to use deadly force in the appropriate situation, it's the same as putting the gun on the table for the bad guy to use. ("appropriate" is dictated by a:law; and b:your personal beliefs). Don't count on it scaring them off - It might - but I wouldn't be willing to bet my life on it (which, after all, is exactly what you are doing.)
Also, depending on where you live, it may actually be illegal to "shoot to mame" per se.
Bill_in_MI
Silver Member
Bob,
Congratulations on your fostering decision. Sounds to me like you have a good handle on things. We took that plunge many years ago now...pre-teen and teenaged sexually abused girls. Ended up adopting 4 as thier cases were so sever there was no reconciling with their famlies...if you can call them that. Had a frightening experience late one night right after a court hearing where we were threatened, and my wife roughed up a bit by one of the girls relatives. (I don't know why they think the foster parents are to "blame" in these situations.) Anyway...to make a long story short, we were awakened to sounds of pounding on the door and several people running around the house...it was summer with the windows open and we live deep in woods off the road. Pretty easy to hear stuff outside. I have guns...always have for sport. I picked up one of my pistols, grabbed a clip (from a different place) and told my wife to call the police. I probably should have stayed put, but I went outside...I was scared and very angry both at the same time. The attackers backed off a ways into the woods. I got this bright idea and fired off a few shots into the ground and yelled out "I think I got one!" That kept things quiet 'till the police arrived. Turns out these were just kids tormenting us for some reason. The faked shooting froze them behind trees in the woods. They came out with hands in the air as soon as they saw the police drive up. End of episode. I often wonder what I would have done had this not ended up being such a tame confrontation. I wouldn't have been any the worse off during all those years without the guns...but it's not hard to imagine that there could have been a real tragedy that night as well.
Our kids are all gone (and one back again recently.) Have I got stories!....and a much wider "world view" than I would have without the fostering experience! Oh yeah...we had 3 bio kids or our own during this period of our lives for a total of 7 girls!
Good luck...and drop me a line if you ever want to swap stories. Seriously...I be happy to help in any way.
Bill
Congratulations on your fostering decision. Sounds to me like you have a good handle on things. We took that plunge many years ago now...pre-teen and teenaged sexually abused girls. Ended up adopting 4 as thier cases were so sever there was no reconciling with their famlies...if you can call them that. Had a frightening experience late one night right after a court hearing where we were threatened, and my wife roughed up a bit by one of the girls relatives. (I don't know why they think the foster parents are to "blame" in these situations.) Anyway...to make a long story short, we were awakened to sounds of pounding on the door and several people running around the house...it was summer with the windows open and we live deep in woods off the road. Pretty easy to hear stuff outside. I have guns...always have for sport. I picked up one of my pistols, grabbed a clip (from a different place) and told my wife to call the police. I probably should have stayed put, but I went outside...I was scared and very angry both at the same time. The attackers backed off a ways into the woods. I got this bright idea and fired off a few shots into the ground and yelled out "I think I got one!" That kept things quiet 'till the police arrived. Turns out these were just kids tormenting us for some reason. The faked shooting froze them behind trees in the woods. They came out with hands in the air as soon as they saw the police drive up. End of episode. I often wonder what I would have done had this not ended up being such a tame confrontation. I wouldn't have been any the worse off during all those years without the guns...but it's not hard to imagine that there could have been a real tragedy that night as well.
Our kids are all gone (and one back again recently.) Have I got stories!....and a much wider "world view" than I would have without the fostering experience! Oh yeah...we had 3 bio kids or our own during this period of our lives for a total of 7 girls!
Good luck...and drop me a line if you ever want to swap stories. Seriously...I be happy to help in any way.
Bill
OP
Bob_Trevithick
Platinum Member
Hi again folks,
Thanks for the extra input here. I'm kind of torn, but I'll tell you.. the one nightmare scenario of a bunch of drunken or drugged-up hoodlums coming into the house and doing whatever they want because I am utterly unable to do anything about haunts me a bit.
Does anyone ever really know if they are capable of shooting someone until the first time they do it? (I just had a tastless idea about an alternative to lethal injection in death sentence cases, but I won't mention it.)
I think I'll do two things, as a start. One is to begin the martial arts training. Maybe I can get rid of the paunch at the same time. /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif And the second is to look into firearms training around here. Maybe the State Police would be the people to ask? If they don't provide such training, they should at least know who does..
Thanks again everyone! I'm trying not to become paranoid, because I know the realistic chances of something like this happening are small (but non-zero.)
Thanks for the extra input here. I'm kind of torn, but I'll tell you.. the one nightmare scenario of a bunch of drunken or drugged-up hoodlums coming into the house and doing whatever they want because I am utterly unable to do anything about haunts me a bit.
Does anyone ever really know if they are capable of shooting someone until the first time they do it? (I just had a tastless idea about an alternative to lethal injection in death sentence cases, but I won't mention it.)
I think I'll do two things, as a start. One is to begin the martial arts training. Maybe I can get rid of the paunch at the same time. /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif And the second is to look into firearms training around here. Maybe the State Police would be the people to ask? If they don't provide such training, they should at least know who does..
Thanks again everyone! I'm trying not to become paranoid, because I know the realistic chances of something like this happening are small (but non-zero.)
dmccarty
Super Star Member
Bill,
If these questions are to personal then don't answer them or send them by email.
It won't hurt my feelings! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
How did you bio kids handle the adobted children? Did it cause a lot of stress between
you and the bio kids?
Did the adobted kids handle the adobtion, the new family, etc?
Where the adobted kids of the same race as your family or different?
I know that is a hot question now a days but I just don't see why
children who need families should be litmused tested by race.
I have thought of adobtion but its such a HUGE undertaking. The
thought of actually adobting scares the heck out of me! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Thanks for the any info.
Dan McCarty
If these questions are to personal then don't answer them or send them by email.
It won't hurt my feelings! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
How did you bio kids handle the adobted children? Did it cause a lot of stress between
you and the bio kids?
Did the adobted kids handle the adobtion, the new family, etc?
Where the adobted kids of the same race as your family or different?
I know that is a hot question now a days but I just don't see why
children who need families should be litmused tested by race.
I have thought of adobtion but its such a HUGE undertaking. The
thought of actually adobting scares the heck out of me! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Thanks for the any info.
Dan McCarty
dmccarty
Super Star Member
ewoss3
There is a drill, I think its called the Tueller Drill, but I'm sure I'm
botching the name. Basically if a person with a knive is within
21 feet, 7 yards, of a person with a holster gun. Most times the
KnifeMan can run up and get the GunMan before the gun gets
into play.
There are things the GunMan can do stop this but I think the
first lesson from the drill is that if the KnifeMan has a knife
in his hand The GunMan better have a Gun in his hand. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
If GunMan is caught flat footed by KnifeMan then its a time
a distance game. GunMan has to move to buy time/distance
to get the Gun into the match. So to speak.
Later...
Dan
There is a drill, I think its called the Tueller Drill, but I'm sure I'm
botching the name. Basically if a person with a knive is within
21 feet, 7 yards, of a person with a holster gun. Most times the
KnifeMan can run up and get the GunMan before the gun gets
into play.
There are things the GunMan can do stop this but I think the
first lesson from the drill is that if the KnifeMan has a knife
in his hand The GunMan better have a Gun in his hand. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
If GunMan is caught flat footed by KnifeMan then its a time
a distance game. GunMan has to move to buy time/distance
to get the Gun into the match. So to speak.
Later...
Dan
OP
Bob_Trevithick
Platinum Member
<font color=blue>...Good luck...and drop me a line if you ever want to swap stories. Seriously...I be happy to help in any way.</font color=blue>
I'll do that, Bill, and thanks! My address is rft@flare.net, so if you would send me your email I'll drop you a line. We could do it here, but I'm afraid I'm already straining Muhammad's patience with all of this.
Hey, I know.. I can get this back on topic by suggesting to the assailants that if they will just hold on for 15 minutes while I warm up the tractor, I'll come back and run over them with it. Think that would work? /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif
Another thought I had was to find an Apache helicopter and install the forward looking Infrared and 50mm cannon on the front of the tractor. That cannon might be useful for cutting down stubborn trees, and the infrared would be good for nighttime tractoring. Okay, don't mind me.. just in a goofy mood today for some reason. /w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif
Best,
Bob
I'll do that, Bill, and thanks! My address is rft@flare.net, so if you would send me your email I'll drop you a line. We could do it here, but I'm afraid I'm already straining Muhammad's patience with all of this.
Hey, I know.. I can get this back on topic by suggesting to the assailants that if they will just hold on for 15 minutes while I warm up the tractor, I'll come back and run over them with it. Think that would work? /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif
Another thought I had was to find an Apache helicopter and install the forward looking Infrared and 50mm cannon on the front of the tractor. That cannon might be useful for cutting down stubborn trees, and the infrared would be good for nighttime tractoring. Okay, don't mind me.. just in a goofy mood today for some reason. /w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif
Best,
Bob
A few years back there was an incident with a Dallas area cop. BadGuy charged him with a knife, cop shot, BadGuy was killed. If memory serves, the BadGuy's family sued or something like that saying that "he wasn't a real threat" because he was "so far away" when BadGuy was shot.
I'm not sure what tape they used (could be the one below), but the defense (cop) used this principle to show that BadGuy was indeed a threat. Just thought you might find it interesting....
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.recguns.com/HowClose.html>http://www.recguns.com/HowClose.html</A>
I'm not sure what tape they used (could be the one below), but the defense (cop) used this principle to show that BadGuy was indeed a threat. Just thought you might find it interesting....
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.recguns.com/HowClose.html>http://www.recguns.com/HowClose.html</A>
Bob-
I don't think you're being paranoid at all. Unfortunately though, the statistics that say "you won't become a victim" are probably a bit lower than you might think.
I will say that it is amazing how one's perspective changes once they have been victimized by a criminal. I won't bore you with a bunch of details other than to say I've been on both the law enforcement and victim sides of the coin.
I'm not saying you should or should not purchase a firearm for your personal defense as it is an intensely personal decision because there are real life & death questions only you can answer. (This has NOTHING with what your rights are to bear arms - that's a totally different subject)
That being said, I think you are pointed in the right direction in that you want to contemplate & educate yourself more before you make that decision.
There's a law enforcement fellow pretty well known and respected in the self-defense circles named Massad Ayoob. You might find some of his books/videos/classes/information of value. Here's a link to his site.
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.ayoob.com/>http://www.ayoob.com/</A>
I don't think you're being paranoid at all. Unfortunately though, the statistics that say "you won't become a victim" are probably a bit lower than you might think.
I will say that it is amazing how one's perspective changes once they have been victimized by a criminal. I won't bore you with a bunch of details other than to say I've been on both the law enforcement and victim sides of the coin.
I'm not saying you should or should not purchase a firearm for your personal defense as it is an intensely personal decision because there are real life & death questions only you can answer. (This has NOTHING with what your rights are to bear arms - that's a totally different subject)
That being said, I think you are pointed in the right direction in that you want to contemplate & educate yourself more before you make that decision.
There's a law enforcement fellow pretty well known and respected in the self-defense circles named Massad Ayoob. You might find some of his books/videos/classes/information of value. Here's a link to his site.
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.ayoob.com/>http://www.ayoob.com/</A>
