Forum for air cooled diesel engines and clones

[jcrotts110]

My current 2019 Toro Wheelhorse has the single cylinder 14hp Kohler gas engine. Works fine with 575 hours on the meter, but in the back of my mind I was thinking it would be nice to swap out to a diesel. Not really sure where to start but I'm sure there would have to be a little fabrication to the mount plate to get it to work. I would need to know the shaft size and length for sure. What other things would I need to know or be aware of?

Definitely would need electric start, horizontal shaft, and air cooled. Any good brick & mortar or online sources I can check with? Any brands to stay away from? Brands with a good reputation?

Fabrication is the name of the game. You can make anything fit with a grinder and a welder. There are pictures of my AC Big 10 a couple pages back. I butchered the frame, but it fit. My 186fa diesel is definitely a work horse! It's a little dangerous if your not careful (i.e. hooking roots with the plow and almost backfliping, forgetting to idle down before going to third gear). I modded my tiller to 52" and it doesn't even phase it. It just spins the turbo harder for more boost and keeps on pulling.

In my opinion, any Yanmar clone you get is just junk from the land of "close enough." Just hope the QC person felt like doing their job that day, the same for any other person on the assembly line. Unless you tear it down the second you get it you don't know what you have. Just do your best to keep it running, and hope it doesn't mysteriously explode the second you fire it up. Mine hasn't shown any signs yet, but if it dies, I have backups. If you want out of the box reliability and a warranty, get a Kohler diesel.

The electric start would be the issue. I didn't find any on fleabay when I ordered mine. The conversion kits are about $400. The pull start isn't too bad as long as it's bolted down to something. If not, you better have a couple people holding it down or it'll hurt you. In a 800 lb. tractor just hit compression, trip the release, yank with BOTH hands, and it fires right up.

 

[bmaverick]

Whilst poking around the web, I stumbled across a genset reseller site. They also rebuild gensets too.

Well, they have a really nice Yanmar manuals page for various engines. Scroll thru the link and fins all kinds of stuff !

FREE Military Generator Manuals

• Yanmar-L40AE-L48AE-L60AE-L70AE-L75AE-L90AE-L100AE-Operations-Manual
• Yanmar-L40AE-L48AE-L60AE-L70AE-L75AE-L90AE-L100AE-Service-Manual
• Yanmar-L40AE-L48AE-L60AE-L70AE-L75AE-L90AE-L100AE-Parts-Manual
• Yanmar-L70AE-DE-Parts-Numbers
• Yanmar-L70AE-Parts-Manual
• Yanmar-L-Series-Brochure-and-Specifications

 

[tmash]

KAMA generator with 192F, mostly made (fabrication not just assembly) in one chinese factory or so I've been told, hopefully better QC: New gen
Seems like they designed their own fuel pump and injector, the voltage regulator and the flywheel gen is oversized as well not sure why.
There is Kama printing everywhere on the block and head. Notice the very thick fuel pump shim, I'm guessing the cam lobe is pointy like the original Japanese model but with a generic block design? It kicks the plunger vs push it relatively slowly. The pump outside case is also abnormally long. The throttle lever has a push screw for easily adjusting the freuqency/speed and fine adjustments, all parts are zinc plated with white passivate. Getting spare parts is going to be tricky but I hope it's worth it in terms of longetivity. There is a relay to prevent the starter from engaging while on and a very basic ATS-like function. Lockwashers, thread lockers and glue are everywhere and plastic wire conduit, other gensets mostly use heatshrink.
The engine and genset chassis inlcude service manuals, parts list, and blow up diagrams for every part will upload soon.

 

[ponytug]

The Kama generators have a reasonable reputation, though I have never used one.

I would go over everything to make sure that screws and bolts are tight, especially the fuel fittings. The trouble with silent generators is that everything is hidden, so it is hard to see a problem when it is small and easily corrected. I would keep a close eye on it for the first twenty hours or so. There is a well established break-in procedure for a small load (500W?, 1000W?) for the first five hours, then more until ten hours, and then more until 20 hours, when you should be at full load.

I hope that this works out for you.

All the best,

Peter

 

[tmash]

After finally having time to inspect the engine, screws are not overtightened, valve rocker clearance is spot on 0.15mm, lots of thread locking but the disappointing part was the valve cover, they used some form of glue on the gasket, didn't budge with heat had to replace the gasket.
Now to the surprising good news is that it has roller cam followers for fuel pump and rocker studs, no flat tappets! I've never seen these before nor adapters/mods for the original Japanese ones. This explains the incredibly thick timing shim on the fuel pump in my previous reply. The rocker arm support is using two bolts instead of pin-bolt as well as circlips on the rocker arm assembly.
The engine is prelubed with oil thats greenish and gel-like on every part inside (assembled in 2019), I dropped tiny bit of oil to the injector port pointing to the bore using a tiny straw. The injector port seems to have external open pressure adjustment with a flat head screw judging by the assembly diagram, there is also a screw on the pump high pressure outlet no idea what's it for. There is a high fuel pressure tubing support with two slots, the second slot allows you to move it away after disassembly without taking it out or get it's tip contaminated.
Gallery: 3 new items by Tee Emm
Will break-in with mineral oil, retorque and follow up tomorrow.

To add there are two relays for the oil pressure sensor, one that toggles the 2nd relay with battery power preventing the engine from starting again unless the key is toggled.
The engine manual strictly says to use oil weight of (0-5-10)w-30, not 40, probably different bearings too or to protect the pressure sensor from high pressure in the cold? API CI4 or CJ4 or CC/CD.

 

[ponytug]

After finally having time to inspect the engine, screws are not overtightened, valve rocker clearance is spot on 0.15mm, lots of thread locking but the disappointing part was the valve cover, they used some form of glue on the gasket, didn't budge with heat had to replace the gasket.
Now to the surprising good news is that it has roller cam followers for fuel pump and rocker studs, no flat tappets! I've never seen these before nor adapters/mods for the original Japanese ones. This explains the incredibly thick timing shim on the fuel pump in my previous reply. The rocker arm support is using two bolts instead of pin-bolt as well as circlips on the rocker arm assembly.
The engine is prelubed with oil thats greenish and gel-like on every part inside (assembled in 2019), I dropped tiny bit of oil to the injector port pointing to the bore using a tiny straw. The injector port seems to have external open pressure adjustment with a flat head screw, no need to disassemble or change copper shims. There is a high fuel pressure tubing support with two slots, the second slot allows you to move it away after disassembly without taking it out or get it's tip contaminated.
Gallery: 3 new items by Tee Emm
Will break-in with mineral oil, retorque and follow up tomorrow.

To add there are two relays for the oil pressure sensor, one that toggles the 2nd relay with battery power preventing the engine from starting again unless the key is toggled.
The engine manual strictly says to use oil weight of (0-5-10)w-30, not 40, probably different bearings too or to protect the pressure sensor from high pressure in the cold? API CI4 or CJ4 or CC/CD.

That looks like the new one has some nice improvements. I hope that it works out for you.

All the best,

Peter

 

[tmash]

The oil drain tubing extension is flat with the chassis in length, it drips inside when changing oil, there is a slope thankfully.
Otherwise it runs great, I'm following the manual's break in procedure: 15 min first start no load, 30 minutes 40% load, 10 minutes 90% load, 20 minutes 20% load, 75% load for the rest 10 hours, then 30+% before changing oil on 20 hours. I decreased -10% of total load due to altitude. I also varied the rpm 2800 to 3300 the first hour. First start at ~2500rpm for 3 minutes by fidgeting with the throttle.
The battery was dead of old age.
I added fuel rated external quick disconnect for the fuel lines for using external tank, I can easily switch the tip to barb if it fails.
Installed a generator controller in an external box with magnet mount and flexible trunk so I can view it around in any assembly positions (the blue wires are remote start, using wires for swapping different gensets easily)
3 minutes warm up, and 5 minutes cool down period, added contactor inside for output switching and a bypass power socket in case the controller is down for manual use.
Managed to find SL/CI-4 from Total oil, ~1100 ppm ZDDP although that doesn't matter anymore with the rollers I guess.
I don't understand why gensets with big wheels and caster wheels are phased out from the market, it was PITA to move this around.
I have two junks now, guess it's better than one good genset when living in what's equiavlent to an island

 

[tmash]

I replaced the oil filter with a new one before first run, I'm glad I did as the original had defect upon cleaning
Kama filter (top) vs a filter from no name china, seems to be finer and much harder to bend:

Looks like someone's clothes got caught, glad I looked at almost everything.
First oil change at 20 hour the oil on dipstick was surprisingly transparent few soot in the pan and no oil consumption, shouldn't it consume a bit of oil on break in? Is it broken in already?

 

[ponytug]

I think that the break in process of an engine as basically introducing all the parts to each other. How much debris and soot ends up in the oil is very machine dependent as manufacturing processes and tolerances can end up with either a tight fit, a middle of the range fit, or a loose fit, depending on any given pair of parts. (Obvious, I know, but the point really is that it depends.) That said, I wouldn't expect much soot in the oil in 20 hours of operation. I don't recall much in mine.

It does seem as if Kama has taken some additional steps to make a good product. I hope that this one does well for you.

All the best,

Peter

 

[tmash]

I think that the break in process of an engine as basically introducing all the parts to each other. How much debris and soot ends up in the oil is very machine dependent as manufacturing processes and tolerances can end up with either a tight fit, a middle of the range fit, or a loose fit, depending on any given pair of parts. (Obvious, I know, but the point really is that it depends.) That said, I wouldn't expect much soot in the oil in 20 hours of operation. I don't recall much in mine.

It does seem as if Kama has taken some additional steps to make a good product. I hope that this one does well for you.

All the best,

Peter

Makes sense, I remember my 178F had what's equivalent to black paint on the dip stick, 2nd oil change was clear.
Thanks.

P.s for anyone interested in the no name china 178F posted earlier, here's it's logbook, it's decommissioned now:

Spoiler: Log:

Routine 1 hour run or more 2021 checklist:
Jan - Feb - Mar - Apr - May - Jun - Jul - Aug - Sep - Oct - Nov - Dec
******************************
Total hours: ~606 on 19 Dec 2021
******************************
Service reminder:
-Change oil on ~700 total hours or/and before July 2022
-Replace valve stem seals, engine is burning oil.
-Replace cracked nozzle heat shielding gasket
-Replace engine rubber mounts (current fix: car tire mount)
******************************

[USER MAINTENANCE]
• Always run at 750W+ load.
• Maximum power: 2.2kW
• Replace oil every 80-100 hours on Synthetic (60hr on Mineral) and every 6 months.
• Clean air pre-filter (foam) with soap and dry every 100 hours
• Recommended oil: (semi/full) Synthetic 5W-40 API CF or CI-4/CJ-4
• Oil crankcase capacity: 1.1L (never overfill; fill above half)
• Wash oil screen filter with Diesel after 4 oil changes.
• Replace air filter every 300 hours.
• Replace oil screen filter every 500 hours. (glue turns brittle overtime)
• Check valves head clearance every 300 hours: Clearance: [0.15mm +/- 0.03]
----
[SERVICE MAINTENANCE]
• Replace or clean fuel injector every 1000 hours.
• Optional preventive maintenance : Replace AVR module every 500 hours.
• Re-torque engine head every 500 hours. [42-46Nm]
• Proper Output Frequency (Hz) ~52 idle no load. 50.6 minimum over 1 hour 80% load. 50.4 at 100% (2.2kw)
• Engine Model Name: China clone / Launtop / 178F
Chinese clone of the original Yanmar L70

Approx. fuel consumption (add 10% due to elevation):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mZwG8uOWX49wfGSpMrbM-JUSwzZKQjmC/view?usp=sharing
******************
Manuals
******************
Clone Engine manual: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kZNK0jvYoGCuQwxzJagUdugtsCXqmRBK/view?usp=sharing
Clone Engine Parts List:
http://dieselgeneratorsonline.net/Documents/ETQ170F178F186FPartsList.pdf
Genuine Engine manual:
https://www.nuvair.com/manuals/Yanmar-LV-100-Use-Manual.pdf
Genuine Engine Rebuild guide:
https://cdn.greenmountaingenerators...E-L70AE-L75AE-L90AE-L100AE-Service-Manual.pdf


********************
Maintenance Logs
********************
(Nov 2018) Drained stock oil , added Mineral oil for break-in 20 hours 1/3 load ~2400 RPM. 15W-40
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(27 Dec 2018)
Oil refilled with Mineral 15W-40
Old oil non-transparent black on stick
Oil Screen Filter cleaned
Found a very small portion of metal debris on oil filter
2nd break-in 20 hours 80% load 3000 RPM
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(31 Dec 2018)
Changed Oil to 5W-40 Synthetic API SN/CF at 19 hours
Oil Screen Filter was clean
No metal debris on oil filter
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(3 Jan 2019) Adjusted valve lash to 0.15 mm (air intake valve gap was 0.20+, exhaust 0.15+)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(25 Jan 2019) Adjusted AVR output to 232V from 223V
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(14 June 2019) Changed oil (6mo passed) same oil type.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(23 November 2019) Changed oil (same as last) at 78hr
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(19 Mar 2020)
Routine valve clearance adjustment (was 0.20-0.25mm on both)
Changed fuel filter
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(4 April 2020) Changed oil (same as last) at 179hr (5month+)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(12 May 2020)?
Changed Air Filter est. April at 182hr
Vent flexible exhaust adapter mod done. est. April
Added 330ml fuel water stabilizer (WURTH)
Changed governor spring profile to the 3rd hole (see manual)
Readjust. freq = 51hz idle
Increased frequency monitor tolerance relay delay to 1 sec (from 1/2)
Installed genset controller and 186f/178f solenoid flow ctrl injector pump.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(21 July 2020)
Routine valve clearance adjustment (was 0.20mm on intake)
Injector spray ok
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(5 October 2020) Oil change same as last (5month); filled to -1 diamond level on dipstick
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2020 Aug-Sep-Oct-Nov-Dec 1 hour routine run
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(May 2021)
Oil change same as last (7month) at 234 hr; filled to -0.5 diamond level on dipstick
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(July 2021)
Valve clearance check: intake & exhaust @~0.20mm, adjusted to ~0.15mm.
Fixed oil leak from valve cover old gasket (paper) with grease.
Oil change same as last at 287 hours due to oil leak from cover & close to 60 hours usage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Aug 2021)
Changed air filter after 1 year due to flexible exhaust crack (oil contamination) and poor performance. (~100 hour)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Sep 2021)
Replaced oil filter on 363 hours
No contamination on filter visible
Replaced oil; 76 hours since last change, same type as last; filled to -1 diamond level on dipstick
Engine rubber mounts damaged, temporarily fixed with mounting the genset on a tire.
Decoupled the wall exhaust with high temperature high flow fan. (Pulls hot exhaust + fresh air for cooling the fan)
Restored the original fuel pump with solenoid valve modification. Last new solenoid fuel pump was failing (unstable rpm)
Replaced feed fuel hose, had cracks (post filter)
Adjusted freq at 50.7Hz warm 50% load
Added 100L fuel (30L existing)
Replaced damaged muffler with 186F large muffler, 178F out of stock
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Oct 2021)
(400 hours) Engine head retorqued at 42.8 n-m. Front left nut was overtightened, gasket was crushed.
Adjusted valve lash
Added 150ml Diesel 3in1 water stabilizer-inj.cleaner-cetane at 100L
Changed diesel injection timing to advance from 0.5 mm to 0.3 mm; timing shim: 22 degree BTDC, original ~20 (21 standard sea level)
Replaced dead battery and added terminal post connector: 30AH 200A CCA, original 20AH and lug terminal
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Nov 2021) [Ran on gasoline]
Engine head overhaul due to blown gasket, changed copper o-ring, air intake gasket, exhaust gasket, and rocker arm window rubber seal.
Notes: Pitting on piston head, thick soot layer, cyl. wall surface is good (cross hatch and rough).
Nozzle heat shielding carbon gasket is cracked (FIXME)
Replaced regular tank (150L) with Diesel rated tank (500L)
Replaced fuel filter at total 450 hour
Tested fuel injector spray at total 450 hour (case nut is siezed)
Rassembled original injector pump (non fuel solenoid valve model) due to hunting (non original used for 300 hours, original used for 150 hours at the time of reassembly)
Modifed a servo for throttle lever, and solenoid for lever clutch (shutoff)
Adjusted frequency/RPM to 51.8 at idle hot, 50.6 at 2KW.
Changed oil same as last at 450 hour and at 529 hour (under H level, 1/4 diamond)
Cleaned air pre filter (foam)
Oil pressure sensor replaced due to cracked housing
Valve stem seals burned. (FIXME)
Retorqued engine head for new gasket after 80 hours at 529hr
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Dec 2021)
Changed oil same as last at 606 hours (80hr)
Only 1/3 of old oil existed, -4 diamonds. No visible leaks.