Ford and General motors alliance/merger discussion.

[Alan L.]

Personally I believe they already have....... A large portion of the population(from what I have seen) is so taken with a blind alegience to Toyota/Honda(in particular) due to their reputation I mentioned earlier... These people also, will not even look at American made cars because of an ingrained perception that the quality is not there... In some cases it may not be, but overall if you wanted to look into it, you would find that the quality is much closer(or with American cars exceding in some cases) than you may want to believe.. And, so now because they will be making trucks here, they must be supporting our economy, right?? Hope you dont actually believe that....

I own a 2006 Honda Accord. Traded my GMC pickup. Other than perhaps being reliable (we'll find out I guess)., the Honda to me is a piece of crap compared to my GMC pickup. Uncomfortable, loud, the a/c is barely adequate, did I say "uncomfortable?". American cars are much more comfortable and better looking, but the reason I didn't buy and American car when I decided I needed better mileage, is resale. The resale on American cars sucks. You'd better like it, because you will have to own it a long time. I don't what the solution to that is, but there probably is something to the reliable issue, but I don't think the spread is as wide as some would have you believe. My GMs have been very reliable. My wife still has her '01 Yukon XL, still very comfortable and has never been to the shop for repairs, at over 100K miles.

 

[mudcat]

I'll take a Kings Ranch F-350 with a Duramax Diesel and an Allison tranny, please .

 

[George2615]

IMHO warranties and 30-40 MPG vehicles are also resulting in more foreign vehicle sales than big three sales. Upstate NY seems to be swamped with Hyundai and others foreign vehicle sales with 10yr. 100,000 mile warranties compared to 3 yr. 36,000 mi.. The big three seem to have realized this since they have recently upped their warranties but still not to 10/100,000. Although some of the big three cars are now in the 30 MPG range. This has also been a big year for hybrids but with more of them being sold the tax breaks will be going away in a few more years.

 

[IH3444]

Yes, Yes, Yes, after reading all this I'm still wondering how Toyota, and Honda enjoy such steller reputations. Having owned over 40 motorcycles, mostly Japanese, and mostly Hondas. This have given the Hondas a greater oppertunity for breakdowns, and failures. As of today the Hondas have never left me stranded on the highway, where as a Kawasaki has, and a Suzuki almost did. Where are all these consumer reports being generated that the Toyotas have a better repair, or lack there of needing repair than others. And on another note that the Japanese cars pas the emmission testing for a much longer ownership time without needing major service to pass. Dargo, on still another note my sister bought a Toyota Avalon also, and absolutely loved the car, she now has a Toyota Matrix, which has been trouble free. My much older 1980 Volkswagen diesel rabbit now has 458,000 miles on it, and has been one of the most trouble free cars I have ever owned. On the other hand the 1990 Passat has been one of the most trouble prone cars I have ever owned.In fact it's the only that ever left me stranded on the highway. When it's time to get rid of it, I'm planning on replacing it with a Toyota Matrix. Hope I git a good one, fur sure.

 

[Dargo]

Dargo, on still another note my sister bought a Toyota Avalon also, and absolutely loved the car, she now has a Toyota Matrix, which has been trouble free.

Yeah, yeah, just rub it in. I break down and buy two Toyota cars only because I hear how dependable they are and I get two freakin' lemons! Maybe now you can understand why I don't buy lottery tickets.

But, hey, I don't seem to be able to put the curse on Honda. Right now I own three of them and zero problems. There again, I also own a Chevrolet, Ford, two Dodges, a VW, and a Jeep. I can't really say that I've had any particular issues with any of them either. Uh, oh. Now I've done it; they'll all break tomorrow...

 

[IH3444]

It's all a bit of a crap shoot. One of my friends has a Dodge mid size pickup truck, with 150,000 miles. Regular maintanence, one converter replacement with exhaust system.That's it. Been a wonderful truck. Another friend has a Chevy 2500 4wd pickup with the Duromax. He hates it, mostly because he only gets about 17mpg. He thought he would get better mileage. He even said GM could have cut two cylinders off, made a turbo V6 diesel out of it, and it would still have enough power to pull his dual axle trailer with skidsteer he has. I've torn two Chevy pickups to the bare frame, and rebuilt both. GM is the king of engineering cheap, there in lies their genius.

 

[RobertN]

I'll take a Kings Ranch F-350 with a Duramax Diesel and an Allison tranny, please .

Nah... If it had a Cummins/Allison, then you'd have a truck

 

[HGM]

Personally, I have experienced none of what you guys describe, I must be one of the lucky ones that had a well built Toyota fall through the cracks.

So, I'm curious......... Where did you get that inference out of anything anyone said?? Toyota does make a good product, that cannot be denied.However, to say they are better than American vehicles(broadly stated) is just a false assumption and a large part of the reason the American automakers are in the possition they are today.. Toyota, or anyone for that matter, will have a bad product from time to time.. No company is immune to it..



OK, did you delete it while I was replying???

 

[kenmac]

I haven't understood why ford doesn't use the cummins engine in their trucks (seems to be the better bang for the buck) I thought I red that ford bought cummins ? Dargo, I understand you have something to do with the auto industry ( not sure what ) Why don't you buy ford & turn things around ?

 

[Dargo]

Why don't you buy ford & turn things around ?

Actually I own about as much Ford as I'm currently comfortable with. I seem to be a few bucks short to buy controlling interest though.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

I haven't understood why ford doesn't use the cummins engine in their trucks (seems to be the better bang for the buck) I thought I red that ford bought cummins ? Dargo, I understand you have something to do with the auto industry ( not sure what ) Why don't you buy ford & turn things around ?

Ford at one time owned some stock in Cummins but has since sold its shares. It has no ties to Cummins today.

 

[Donnyj]

After working for 2 Ford dealerships over the last 15 years I can honestly say I believe Ford is building the best product they have ever built. The 6.0 {in my opinion} has been a huge failure. I still believe Ford builds the best domestic vehicle. Compare a small economy car like a Focus to a Corolla any you will find the Focus is much more comfortable, quieter and rides so much better. Ford has introduced many new vehicle lines in the last few years, Freestyle, Ford 500, Fusion, all new Mustang, Hybrid Escape. None of these new vehicles have given us any problems. All new CVT trans in the Freestyle, Ford 500. Never seen one out yet. I work on all the Hybrid Escapes, only put on 2 electronics motor water pumps. Take a look in the shops around the country, I keep in contact with alot of techs via the Ford message boards, no work in the shops. Warranty work is down tremendously. My personal doctor asked me one time why do you think Toyota lasts so much longer. I replied, "Where do you take your Toyota for service?" He said the dealership. Bingo! Different car buyer when it comes to Toyota, Honda, Lexus, BMW etc. Most strongly believe in maintenance and live by it. Most domestic buyers, do it there selves. Oil change........when it looks dirty. I really don't believe many domestic car buyers take there vehicles back to ther dealer for work unless it is warranty work. Ford has there management and union problems for sure, but my hats off to the hard working people at Ford Motor Co. who have really stepped up and built some very good products as of late. Trouble is though, they are probably going to be the ones who lose there jobs.

 

[IH3444]

I keep waiting for the mid size V6 Turbo direct injection pickup truck from any American manufacturer. Can't believe there isn't a market for one, even a smaller one with a TDI 4 cylinder..........pickup.

 

[ridgerunnerinwv]

I like a Ford product,but I do not like some of the special interest groups Ford is supporting and promoting and I would not buy a Ford for this reason alone.I cannot discuss any further because of the political nature.

 

[_RaT_]

So, I'm curious......... Where did you get that inference out of anything anyone said?? Toyota does make a good product, that cannot be denied.However, to say they are better than American vehicles(broadly stated) is just a false assumption and a large part of the reason the American automakers are in the possition they are today.. Toyota, or anyone for that matter, will have a bad product from time to time.. No company is immune to it..



OK, did you delete it while I was replying???

Sorry Greg, I made my post quickly, went to get the phone and came back to reread it and hit the post button accidentally so rather then straighten it out, I deleted it. The post was not aimed at you as much as Alan L I think it was. Your comments are right on.

 

[Dargo]

After working for 2 Ford dealerships over the last 15 years I can honestly say I believe Ford is building the best product they have ever built. The 6.0 {in my opinion} has been a huge failure.

Smart man. And, how much longer is the 6.0 going to be used...?

Although I go along with the masses, and perfer the Cummins engine, I have to say that I strongly prefer the Ford pickup. I could have been reasonably satisfied with the 7.3 as it came right from the factory. There is a lot to be said about that. My Cummins now will outperform 99% of the 7.3's on the road, but at a bit of expense and a very expensive automatic transmission to hold the +1000 ft. lbs. of torque. At the strip and at the truck pulls, the Duramax and Powerstrokes have to have a rather strong 'girdle' on the block if they are to stay together with that kind of torque. Otherwise, they rather splatter. In all fairness though, neither of those engines were ever designed to hold +1000 ft. lbs. of torque. Also, virtually all big rigs on the road are in line 6 engines; not V8's. The flat torque curve that starts really low seem to be the reason as well as the more primitive inline block being able to hold more torque. I've really been hoping that Ford would get the Cummins (ain't gonna happen as I understand) or possibly a Cat diesel. If so, without any doubt, I'd move from my venerable old Dodge that came with the Cummins engine I bought almost a decade ago.

 

[_RaT_]

Also, virtually all big rigs on the road are in line 6 engines; not V8's. The flat torque curve that starts really low seem to be the reason as well as the more primitive inline block being able to hold more torque.

I thought the "big rigs" were developing about 1600 ft lbs of torque but with much, much bigger drive gear, rear ends and u joints then you could even carry in a pickup. I would settle for a Ford or Chevy like interior/exterior with a reliable transmission, a dependable diesel that was quiet and got nice fuel economy. It could be a straight 4, 5, 6 or a V6 or V8. I would gladly sacrifice power to get those qualities. Having to occasionally subject my old IDI non turbo Ford to altitudes of 9500' above sea level, it needs help. Other then the 6.0L being a huge flop as I've been told from so many die hard Ford fans, the trucks are quite nice. Does Ford have a solution to their diesel dilemma?

 

[Donnyj]

Hopefully the new 6.4L engine that is due out any day now will improve Fords diesel concerns. I agree 100% about the inline configuration of diesel engines being better. The 7.3 engine though is still a very reliable and strong engine. You can really put the power to a 7.3 and it will hold up. I will say this though, when a 6.0 diesel is running right there is nothing stock out there that will run with it. The reliability problems with the engine is its downfall. Hopefully the 6.4 will improve the reliability issues.

 

[_RaT_]

Hopefully the new 6.4L engine that is due out any day now will improve Fords diesel concerns. I agree 100% about the inline configuration of diesel engines being better. The 7.3 engine though is still a very reliable and strong engine. You can really put the power to a 7.3 and it will hold up. I will say this though, when a 6.0 diesel is running right there is nothing stock out there that will run with it. The reliability problems with the engine is its downfall. Hopefully the 6.4 will improve the reliability issues.

I know nothing about the 6.0L. What is unique or interesting about it aside from its problems?

 

[HGM]

I know nothing about the 6.0L. What is unique or interesting about it aside from its problems?

Although this question was directed to Donnie, I'll add a little to it... The 6.0L is a 4,000RPM 4v per cyl diesel with a variable turbo.. If you havent had the oportunity to drive one, it is impressive, matched with the Tq Shift trans, I honestly agree with Donnie that there isnt a better package on the road today(in stock form)... I have driven the "new" Dodge, and while the engine is impressive, the trans is less than so... I havent driven the Duramax(with the same turbo, BTW), but I have spoken to many techs that have driven and worked on both and they usually tend to prefer the Ford as well... In my opinion, the 6.0L is a aimed more toward the performance side than it should be.. If its maintained properly and driven right, I see dont see it as a flop.. The problem is that everyone has their own idea of how a diesel should be operated, and its usually not in the best interest of the engine, this is a HUGE contributing factor of 6.0L problems.. Diesels have been traditionaly very forgiving, something the 6.0L isnt...

Donnie, the last I heard is the 6.4L will be launched in mid-late Jan or early Feb.. Training will be in Jan..

Dargo, have you actually seen a 7.3L blow the bottom ends out? Or any Powerstroke for that matter? This is the first I have heard of it, thats actually the stronget part of those engines.. The info I was given years ago said that the 7.3L was originally designed for marine applications of 600hp and 1000lb ft Tq.. This is why its so hard to blow them up and why they have been such good engines..