Ford 641 Workmaster Questions and Advice

[knifeman32]

Hi guys, I am new to the forum. I am sending a certified check to a dealer in Michigan to purchase a 1959 Ford 641 Workmaster tractor. It has a freeman pipe loader, drawbar, etc.. I am buying it from M. Nolan Farms in Michigan. Has anyone had any experiences with this company? Anyways, I realize that I am going to need an overrun clutch in order to do some mowing. I will be using a 5ft rotary cutter. I haven't quite made up my mind about the brand as of yet. I worked at a tractor supply for about 7 years before I went into education and was considering their county line brand of rotary cutter. Basically, my question is, will a standard 6 spline 1 3/8 slip clutch fit with this tractor? Also, what are your thoughts on the county line brand of mower? It seemed as if customers had mixed reviews about the mower when I would talk to them. Some seemed to love it and others seemed to think that it was not up to par with other brands. Finally, will I need to run this mower with a slip clutch as well as the overrun clutch? I also realize that different tractors need different lengths of shafts for the mower. Will the shaft that the TSC brand mowers come with work for me? Thanks for all of the help in advance guys. I appreciate it.


By the way, here is the link to the mower that I have been looking at:

CountyLine 5 ft. Rotary Cutter with a 40 HP Gearbox - 2127248 | Tractor Supply Company


Also forgot to ask about hydraulic fluid and engine oil? What weight should I use? Will general trans-hydraulic fluid work in the hydraulics? Thanks.

 

[Jerry/MT]

Hi guys, I am new to the forum. I am sending a certified check to a dealer in Michigan to purchase a 1959 Ford 641 Workmaster tractor. It has a freeman pipe loader, drawbar, etc.. I am buying it from M. Nolan Farms in Michigan. Has anyone had any experiences with this company? Anyways, I realize that I am going to need an overrun clutch in order to do some mowing. I will be using a 5ft rotary cutter. I haven't quite made up my mind about the brand as of yet. I worked at a tractor supply for about 7 years before I went into education and was considering their county line brand of rotary cutter. Basically, my question is, will a standard 6 spline 1 3/8 slip clutch fit with this tractor? Also, what are your thoughts on the county line brand of mower? It seemed as if customers had mixed reviews about the mower when I would talk to them. Some seemed to love it and others seemed to think that it was not up to par with other brands. Finally, will I need to run this mower with a slip clutch as well as the overrun clutch? I also realize that different tractors need different lengths of shafts for the mower. Will the shaft that the TSC brand mowers come with work for me? Thanks for all of the help in advance guys. I appreciate it.


By the way, here is the link to the mower that I have been looking at:

CountyLine 5 ft. Rotary Cutter with a 40 HP Gearbox - 2127248 | Tractor Supply Company


Also forgot to ask about hydraulic fluid and engine oil? What weight should I use? Will general trans-hydraulic fluid work in the hydraulics? Thanks.

If you jhave a transmission drive pto, you need an ORC.

If you have a live pto, you will not need a ORC.

The ORC and the slip clutch serve separate purposes
A slip clutch is used to protect the driveline, (like a shear pin) while an ORC protects the operator driving a machine with a transmission driven pto (and the surroundings) from an implement with a high rotating inertia from powering the rear axle of the tractor even when the the clutch is depressed.

Invest in an owners manual for this tractor. They are generally available a reprints of the factory issued ones. Generally UTF ( Universal Tractor Fluid) is fine. Check the spec on the container, looking for Ford Spec M2C134.

For engine oil SAE30HD, SAE 10W30 or SAE 10W40 or 15W40 will work depending on the ambient tempertures you operate in. If the engine has a lot of wear SAE 20W50 maybe needed. If you have a diesel engine youll need diesel rated oil. If its a gasser, the auto lube oil will be fine.

A far as a mowe r brand I look for value and found with a KingKutter 5 Points mower. It's a higer quality that the run of the mill farm store yellow moderls, but is significnty less expensive (by a factor of 2 ) than Woods. the mowers generally come with a shaft that is too long and you have to cut it to size. The instructions are in the mower operators manual supplied by the OEM.

 

[rambler]

Your tractor has a transmission pto, it will be better with the over running coupler.

Most mowers come with a slip clutch or shear bolt built in. You'd sure want one or the other! I guess a brush hog with a stump jumper has enough give in the blades to get by without, now that I think about it?

Pto shafts tend to come a bit too long from the factory, and you need to cut them down to fit. Follow the manual on that. Adding the ORC will probably for sure make the pto shaft too long as it ships....

Many folks now run their gas tractors on 10-40 oil year around and do just fine. These old gas engines are pretty fogiving, they just need oil, they are sloppy & worn and not so fussy on the exact type. The manual will tell you something different, it was written 60 years ago when the oils were different.

You will need to find a trans-hydraulic oil compatable with the Ford/NH 134 spec. Most universal 'trans/hyd' oils do so, you will find that number somewhere on the bucket. Do not use a 'hydraulic only' type of oil. You actually have 3 areas to fill with the trans/hyd, but they tend to splash & leak one into the other so use the trans/hyd in all 3. Some folks feel the old tractors leak a lot with that thin of a trans/hyd oil through old worn seals, and put in something a tad thicker. That is your call. I go with a 134 compatable oil......

I've no opinion on the brand of mower. I got an old well used Dearborn/Ford model for $300 several years ago, and keep on using it, works fine.

--->Paul

 

[Ultradog MN]

I would say your Countryline is a rebadged King Kutter.
The first tool I bought for my first tractor was a new KK 5' brush mower.
I had excellent luck with it. I ran it hard for about 4 years then found a heavy old Bush Hog brand so I sold the KK. The top deck on the KK was all dented up but it still worked great.
I have since had 2 KK finish mowers. First a 6' and now a 7'. I think a lot of the brand. They are somewhat lightweight but well engineered.

 

[knifeman32]

Hi guys, Thanks for the advice. I will definitely purchase an overrun clutch. Will the standard 1 3/8 6 spline clutch work? Being that I will also be mowing in some rocky areas, is it okay to run an overrunning clutch and a slip clutch at the same time? I will remove as many of the rocks as I can but I can't promise I will get them all. Finally, When I do purchase a rotary cutter and I need to cut the shaft, is there any particular information that I should know? Will a die grinder with a metal cutting blade be sufficient for this task? Sorry for all the questions guys. I am a bit new to all of this. My expertise at the tractor supply was garden tractors and dog food. Thanks for all the help!

 

[Jerry/MT]

Hi guys, Thanks for the advice. I will definitely purchase an overrun clutch. Will the standard 1 3/8 6 spline clutch work? Being that I will also be mowing in some rocky areas, is it okay to run an overrunning clutch and a slip clutch at the same time? I will remove as many of the rocks as I can but I can't promise I will get them all. Finally, When I do purchase a rotary cutter and I need to cut the shaft, is there any particular information that I should know? Will a die grinder with a metal cutting blade be sufficient for this task? Sorry for all the questions guys. I am a bit new to all of this. My expertise at the tractor supply was garden tractors and dog food. Thanks for all the help!

I cut mine to fit with a hacksaw. The instructions will be in your mower operator's manual. Just read that and follow the instructions.

I think by the time the Powermaster's came out the 1-3/8" shaft was standard. If your tractor has the standard 1-3/8" pto shaft that that's the size ORC you'll need. For safety sake, don't mow without it. The ORC will make your pto output shaft several inches longer so don't cut the drive shaft for the mower without installing the ORC on the pto or you'll have to do it again.

As I said before, the ORC and the slip clutch are used for very different reasons so, Yes, you run them together.

 

[barbqranch]

As I learned here, lower the engine RPM to an idle or just above when engaging or disengaging the PTO with an implement like your mower that has a lot of weight that spins. This will reduce the strain on the clutch. The reason for lowering the rpm when you disengage is even when you aren't mowing, it takes some power to keep the speed up, and it will wear the gears a little more when disengaging the pto. But, if you drop the rpm, the mower will keep spinning at the higher speed and the overrun clutch will be letting it, and there will be no stress on the gears while disengaging it.

 

[knifeman32]

I cut mine to fit with a hacksaw. The instructions will be in your mower operator's manual. Just read that and follow the instructions.

I think by the time the Powermaster's came out the 1-3/8" shaft was standard. If your tractor has the standard 1-3/8" pto shaft that that's the size ORC you'll need. For safety sake, don't mow without it. The ORC will make your pto output shaft several inches longer so don't cut the drive shaft for the mower without installing the ORC on the pto or you'll have to do it again.

As I said before, the ORC and the slip clutch are used for very different reasons so, Yes, you run them together.

Is there an approximate length that I should cut it to? Or should I just take a look to see how far I need to cut the shaft after I hook up the mower? Thanks.

 

[Hokie1984]

One thing to add about bush hogging with that machine. Its better to make two passes in thick stuff than to overload it and blow a head gasket. They are very tough but have their limits! Keep the blades sharp too.

 

[knifeman32]

One thing to add about bush hogging with that machine. Its better to make two passes in thick stuff than to overload it and blow a head gasket. They are very tough but have their limits! Keep the blades sharp too.

Thanks for the advice, I do plan on taking my time. Our property is vacant land at the moment so it is sort of my get away. I don't mind spending a little extra time there.

 

[Hokie1984]

There is nothing like the smell of a well tuned ford when she's warmed up and ready to work! Give her fresh gas, properly gaped points, clean air, fresh oil, and she will sing the song of man and machine till the day turns to night.

 

[Guesseral]

As far as cutting the PTO shaft, just read the instruction that come with the mower it is all there and pretty easy to undrestand.

 

[knifeman32]

Alright guys, I have received my tractor and everything works as it should. I began installing the overrunning clutch and it looks like I have fouled up one of the ends of the roll pin. Of course it was the end I was tapping in. I can't remove it at this point. I'm going to try to drive it in the rest of the way and install the second grease zerk. It frustrated me a bit but I am still more than happy with this machine. Now onto more questions:

What hydraulic fluid, engine oil, and differential fluid should I run in this baby? I guess cross referencing an oil filter would work for knowing the appropriate oil filter. What else should I do when maintaining the tractor? Any other areas that I need to pay attention to? Finally, how often should I grease the tractor and where are all of the grease zerks located? Thanks for any help guys. I appreciate it.

 

[Soundguy]

owners manual shows you the lubrication fittings.

if you look hard.. you can fint it online. I know the ntractorclub.com has it in their manuals section..

engine oil? in temperate areas I'd run a 15w40 C (s) rated oil.. in arctic areas.. 10w30.

oil filter , if a spin on.. the fram ph8a, supertech st8a, motorcraft fl1a.. napa 1452 though a 1515 will fit.. and about a billion others that cross.. if a cartridge type.. i believe a napa 1004 or a fram ch6pl and any crosses..

hyds sump takes utf meeting the m2c134 spec. can use that in the diffy sump and trans sump as well.. you could use an 80w90 gear oil in the trans and rear if you wanted. if your hyd smp and diffy inter sump seals leak.. just use utf in both...

remember to use 6qts of oil on a change, as 5-5.5 for engine.. and .5 qt for the oil bath air filter. may need to remove and rinse media in diesel.. etc..

probably good to drain and refill coolant and water.. fill to cover coils. new hoses if it needs it. check gauges to see if they work.. chase leaks.. check fan belt.. and charge system.. wireing..e tc. all normal stuff.. etc.

adjust brakes if needed. standard drum with star wheels..e tc..

get a service manual.. even if the simple I&T fo-20 for a farm store.. better than notheing.. plos that owners manul.. a parts catalog would be nice too.. but if nothig else you can lookup exploded diagrams online at the cnh parts site. same diagrams and aprts list as the manual has.. etc.

as a tip.. oem genny and dizzy have an oil cup that gets a couple drips.

other info.

pints gap at .025 so do plugs.. I reccomend al437 or champion H12 ( 512 ) fire order is 1-2-4-3

that's about it on the basics unless you have any other specific questions..

 

[knifeman32]

owners manual shows you the lubrication fittings.

if you look hard.. you can fint it online. I know the ntractorclub.com has it in their manuals section..

engine oil? in temperate areas I'd run a 15w40 C (s) rated oil.. in arctic areas.. 10w30.

oil filter , if a spin on.. the fram ph8a, supertech st8a, motorcraft fl1a.. napa 1452 though a 1515 will fit.. and about a billion others that cross.. if a cartridge type.. i believe a napa 1004 or a fram ch6pl and any crosses..

hyds sump takes utf meeting the m2c134 spec. can use that in the diffy sump and trans sump as well.. you could use an 80w90 gear oil in the trans and rear if you wanted. if your hyd smp and diffy inter sump seals leak.. just use utf in both...

remember to use 6qts of oil on a change, as 5-5.5 for engine.. and .5 qt for the oil bath air filter. may need to remove and rinse media in diesel.. etc..

probably good to drain and refill coolant and water.. fill to cover coils. new hoses if it needs it. check gauges to see if they work.. chase leaks.. check fan belt.. and charge system.. wireing..e tc. all normal stuff.. etc.

adjust brakes if needed. standard drum with star wheels..e tc..

get a service manual.. even if the simple I&T fo-20 for a farm store.. better than notheing.. plos that owners manul.. a parts catalog would be nice too.. but if nothig else you can lookup exploded diagrams online at the cnh parts site. same diagrams and aprts list as the manual has.. etc.

as a tip.. oem genny and dizzy have an oil cup that gets a couple drips.

other info.

pints gap at .025 so do plugs.. I reccomend al437 or champion H12 ( 512 ) fire order is 1-2-4-3

that's about it on the basics unless you have any other specific questions..

I believe that you have pretty much covered everything that I could ever want to know. I ordered a manual and it actually arrived today. I'm goint to catch up on some reading and check everything out.


I do have a few questions regarding a rotary mower and slip clutch. I finally installed an overrunning clutch. Today, I bought a king kutter 5 foot rotary cutter and a slip clutch. Is it okay to run a slip clutch with the shear bolts that come standard on these? I bought a slip clutch as well because the area is somewhat rocky that I will be cutting in. Also, I have been told that I will need to cut the shaft. I can't find anything in the product manual that gives instructions for cutting. Where should I cut it and about how much should I leave for flexibility? I just don't want to cut it too short and then be stuck. I realize that running a slip clutch and an overrunning clutch will probably force me to cut it down some but how much is the real question? My final question is, do I need to adjust the slip clutch that I purchased from TSC or can I just install it? I have read a few threads about folks adjusting their slip clutch but I don't have the slightest idea about what to do in terms of adjusting it or how much to adjust it. Any help is appreciated. Thanks for your great explanations above guys!

 

[Soundguy]

I believe that you have pretty much covered everything that I could ever want to know.

oh don't worry.. you'll have more questions these oldies like to be touched now and then. here's one to scratch down. valves adjust at 15 thousandths hot..

I do have a few questions regarding a rotary mower and slip clutch. I finally installed an overrunning clutch. Today, I bought a king kutter 5 foot rotary cutter and a slip clutch. Is it okay to run a slip clutch with the shear bolts that come standard on these? I bought a slip clutch as well because the area is somewhat rocky that I will be cutting in. Also, I have been told that I will need to cut the shaft. I can't find anything in the product manual that gives instructions for cutting. Where should I cut it and about how much should I leave for flexibility? I just don't want to cut it too short and then be stuck. I realize that running a slip clutch and an overrunning clutch will probably force me to cut it down some but how much is the real question? My final question is, do I need to adjust the slip clutch that I purchased from TSC or can I just install it? I have read a few threads about folks adjusting their slip clutch but I don't have the slightest idea about what to do in terms of adjusting it or how much to adjust it. Any help is appreciated. Thanks for your great explanations above guys!

i'd loosent he slip clutch so that it freely slipped.. then adjust it tighter till it stopped slipping and test it on a patch of grass. use a paint marker to mark across the media and edges.. then mow. if the line is still lined up it didn't slip and you are good.. if it did slip mowing a strip.. tighten more and recheck with a new line. paperwhite makes a good line.

install the orc correct so that it freewheels 1 way...

lift mower on 3p with pto shaft unhooked from tractor but on mower.. lift it even so mower drive is direct across from pto on tractor.. thi is the shortest distance. set mower shadft next to tractor pto to see if it is too long. ideally at shortest area you still want an inch of play.. and on extension.. at least 6" overlap.

if a square on square or triangle in triangle or lemon in lemon cross section shaft.. figure amount needed to be cut.. then cut half that amount off the end of each shaft.. sheild in cluded. if a square inner into a round outter with square inner drive.... don't cut that way.. post back.. have to cut the aft of te round shaft and some of the inner shaft down.. reason is as round with square end is drive end and is only at front of shaft.. so you can';t cut it off..

on t he slip clutch.. it will attach to the mower with a bolt in the hole that the shaer bolt used. shear bolt would have been a gr2.. for attaching the slip clutch though, use a hard bolt. don't want it to shear or partially shear vs the clutch slipping...

 

[knifeman32]

I believe that you have pretty much covered everything that I could ever want to know.

oh don't worry.. you'll have more questions these oldies like to be touched now and then. here's one to scratch down. valves adjust at 15 thousandths hot..



i'd loosent he slip clutch so that it freely slipped.. then adjust it tighter till it stopped slipping and test it on a patch of grass. use a paint marker to mark across the media and edges.. then mow. if the line is still lined up it didn't slip and you are good.. if it did slip mowing a strip.. tighten more and recheck with a new line. paperwhite makes a good line.

install the orc correct so that it freewheels 1 way...

lift mower on 3p with pto shaft unhooked from tractor but on mower.. lift it even so mower drive is direct across from pto on tractor.. thi is the shortest distance. set mower shadft next to tractor pto to see if it is too long. ideally at shortest area you still want an inch of play.. and on extension.. at least 6" overlap.

if a square on square or triangle in triangle or lemon in lemon cross section shaft.. figure amount needed to be cut.. then cut half that amount off the end of each shaft.. sheild in cluded. if a square inner into a round outter with square inner drive.... don't cut that way.. post back.. have to cut the aft of te round shaft and some of the inner shaft down.. reason is as round with square end is drive end and is only at front of shaft.. so you can';t cut it off..

on t he slip clutch.. it will attach to the mower with a bolt in the hole that the shaer bolt used. shear bolt would have been a gr2.. for attaching the slip clutch though, use a hard bolt. don't want it to shear or partially shear vs the clutch slipping...

I am assuming that I installed the ORC correctly. I hooked it up to the pto, lined up the holes, removed the grease zerks, tapped in the roll pin, and screwed the grease zerks back in. I did foul up one end of the roll pin and had to tap one of the grease zerks in. When I say tap, I had to use a tap (not tap with a hammer). Nonetheless, it is own and it spins. How can I check to make sure that I installed it properly. I feel confident that I did but now I am second guessing myself.

By the way, thanks for all of your help. I wish you were in NC. I am sort of a visual learner but I guess with experience comes success.

 

[knifeman32]

Oh... one final thing. Please don't judge my lack of knowledge. When I install the slip clutch, I do install it at the gearbox correct? I believe that I install the slip clutch directly into and out of the gearbox but I just wanted to make sure.

 

[Soundguy]

very common to install the slip clutch right to the gearbox.

on the orc, as long as the roll pin is in far enough that the outter shell can spin in one direction and locks up i nthe other.. it's fine.

your questions are perfectly normal. and good. You are asking all the correct ones ( and there really are no incorrect ones! ).

be safe, have fun, and get to know that machine.

ask any questions you have. many times some stuff is covered int he manual but may help hearing / asking about it as well. don't hesitate to do so. better to be safe and ask, than to damage the tractor or hurt yourself.

soundguy

 

[knifeman32]

very common to install the slip clutch right to the gearbox.

on the orc, as long as the roll pin is in far enough that the outter shell can spin in one direction and locks up i nthe other.. it's fine.

your questions are perfectly normal. and good. You are asking all the correct ones ( and there really are no incorrect ones! ).

be safe, have fun, and get to know that machine.

ask any questions you have. many times some stuff is covered int he manual but may help hearing / asking about it as well. don't hesitate to do so. better to be safe and ask, than to damage the tractor or hurt yourself.

soundguy

Alright... last question... maybe. I took the tractor out and really tested the workload this weekend. I cut about a two acre field that was totally full of brush. I used a 5ft bush hog with a 40hp gearbox. The cutter worked amazingly well. The field was full of small trees, blackberry bushes and more random weeds and plants. My tractor had a bit of issues with what I believe was a fuel problem. At first I though the bush hog may be too large for the tractor? (what are your thoughts)? But then again, it pulled it and lifted it well. The pto worked fine. Turns out, I think the tractor was sitting for a while at the dealership I bought it from and it gathered some debris/water in the gas tank. I had to empty my sediment bowl twice. The first time it had a healthy does of water in it along with some trash. The second time there was still a little drop or two of water and more debris. My tractor was sputtering when I was cutting and it overheated a little. I cut it off, rested it and it worked great again. I am assuming that this debris is what is causing it? Am I correct in assuming this?

Also, I plan on changing out the hydraulic oil this coming weekend. When I checked the hydraulic fluid and the differential fluid, it was a milky white color. I am assuming that some water may have gotten in it as well. Is there a filter that I need to replace as well? The engine oil was changed when I bought it from the dealer so I think that it is good. I found the reservoir for the hydraulic fluid at the gear shifter and the reservoir in the back behind the seat. Am I missing another reservoir? Thanks for all of your help. Between you and my neighbor, I may actually be getting the hang of this.