FORD 4000 Not Charging

   / FORD 4000 Not Charging #21  
I'm sorry.. but that is just plain bad / incorrect advice. there are at least 3 other problems other than 'generator is bad' that your test completely overlooks.

soundguy

Wow! I didn't realize trying to help out would bring about such an attack. As I stated, it's a quick test to see if the generator works. It's not meant to be a "bench test". That can happen later if it's determined the generator is the problem. You're going way overboard for a field test and pulling the belt is not necessary for a quick and dirty evaluation.

And unless you know some secret magic about the Lucas generator, YOU are all wrong when you state to jump the BAT (AKA: Armature) post and Field post. It's not necessary as the two are connected internally via the field coils. The Armature post is the OUTPUT of the generator.

All the best and tractor on.
Ken
 
   / FORD 4000 Not Charging
  • Thread Starter
#22  
With everyones thoughtful suggestions,I diagnosed a bad regulator. Got one at the dealer and the tractor is now charging. Did another oil filter change as well. Sure had to get the bolt quite tight to seal it up,but when I left,it wasn't leaking and the generator was charging. Maybe there's hope yet.

Thank you again everyone!
 
   / FORD 4000 Not Charging #23  
Wow! I didn't realize trying to help out would bring about such an attack. As I stated, it's a quick test to see if the generator works. It's not meant to be a "bench test". That can happen later if it's determined the generator is the problem. You're going way overboard for a field test and pulling the belt is not necessary for a quick and dirty evaluation.

And unless you know some secret magic about the Lucas generator, YOU are all wrong when you state to jump the BAT (AKA: Armature) post and Field post. It's not necessary as the two are connected internally via the field coils. The Armature post is the OUTPUT of the generator.

All the best and tractor on.
Ken

Pulling the belt is 100% necescarry for a motor test.. otherwise you can't tell if the genny is spinning with a belt holding it in place! :(

BAT is not ARM.. BAT is the hot battery side connection on the regualtor which is seperated from the ARM via cutout.

When i specifically state to jump BAT to FIELD, for instance.. for polarization.. I AM doing so because you need current to flow to create some residual magnetics in the pole pieces.. Can't do that by jumpering ARM to FLD with the tractor off. ( no power is being generated, thus cutout is open.. ).. Aslo.. in a motor test, the tractor will be off.. thus no power is being made.. thus the cutout is open.. thus to motor the genny, you have to provide BATTERY to the armature,.. IE.. bypassing the cutout, and you have to bias the field.. again.. going this with BATTERY.

No attack.. my message stated what it did for a reason.. To declare a genny bad without fully testing it is a waste of time and money...

I'm not going to argue with you.. but I can read it ( diagnostic procedures for that genny ) to you right out of the book.

On a b-circuit genny.. one side of the field is touching case ground.. the other side terminates at the field spade connector on the back of the genny.

Armature is the charge stud ( who indicated otherwise? )

On an A-Circuit genny, one sid eof the field coil contacts the armature... the other terminates at the fild post.

I can post a pictoral diagram to explain the differences in A-Circuit and B-circuit genrerators, that show the field connections very clearly...

in fact.. here it is.. look at the lower of the 3 pictures.. it is a B circuit genny like a lucas... it should make sense to you now.

The last paragraph of your message describes an A-Circuit generator pretty good.... only problem is we are talking about a B circuit genny.

Ford used 2-brush A-Circuit generators up thru the end of the 8N run. ( 9n/2n were 3 brush gennies.. and some early 8n gennies were a bit weird too.. ) In any case.. with the introductuion of the NAA in late 52 for the 53 year, ford went to a B circuit genny... When ford dumped the 4 cyl tractors in 65, they went to the lucas B circuit gennies.. For practical electrical generation.. the B circuit gennies on the frods from 53-64 worked the same as the 65+ lucas gennies.. There were obvious cosmetic and manufacturing differences int he ford and lucas gennies, and different specs for current limitation.. etc.. but in generall.. all B circuits work alike..and All A circuits work alike.
A-circuit use a field that is internally connected to the armature on one side.. and a filed post on the other.. field current is provided when the vibrating contact in the regulator grounds the field coil. There will also be a bias resistor in the regulator from the field contact to ground.. as the genny spins up, the residual magnetic field in the pole pieces starts low voltage generation in the armature.. which directly starts feeding the field.. this 'bootstraps' power generation up untill the cutout closes and the battery starts to charge.. with the armature providing power, and the regulator ground.. this is all A-circuit.. refer to the top left pic in the attachment.



Soundguy
 

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   / FORD 4000 Not Charging #24  
With everyones thoughtful suggestions,I diagnosed a bad regulator. Got one at the dealer and the tractor is now charging. Did another oil filter change as well. Sure had to get the bolt quite tight to seal it up,but when I left,it wasn't leaking and the generator was charging. Maybe there's hope yet.

Thank you again everyone!

Glad you found it and that it turned out to be a cheap fix like a reg, and thet you didn't junk your genny in the process.

soundguy
 
   / FORD 4000 Not Charging #25  
For clarity sake.. I'll describe the B circuit interaction og the genny and reg in this seperate post.

As with the A-circuit, the B circuit functions by the residual magnetics int he pole pieces inducing a small votlage on the armature.. however.. to get this power to the field it is sent outboard to the reg, then back thru the field contact, and then it bootstraps up..

Because of this.. when testing a B circuit genny with a bad regulator.. particuarly if the field circuit is bad, you must artificially bias the FIELD with BAT power, as there may be non coming back in from the arm.

If you are motor testing, the BAT connection will be needed as well.

Soundguy
 
   / FORD 4000 Not Charging #26  
I have a 1969 4000 ford tractor that I am having some charging issues with also
I have replaced both Voltage regulator and generator.
I polarized the generator and as long as the tractor is running above 1000 rpm it seems to charge fine. (about 13 volts at battery.)
When the tractor is shut off or the RPM's go to an idle the generator light comes on and stays on. I can re-polarize the generator and the light will go out until the dey is shut off or the RPM's drop.
 
   / FORD 4000 Not Charging #27  
the low rpms are normal for no charge.

the lamp coming on when the macine is off .... have you turned the key off?
 
   / FORD 4000 Not Charging #28  
yes
key off, light off.
Start tractor, light on..... polarize generator.... light off
stays off until tractor goes to idle then light is on.
Rev motor light goes out for one second then comes on (slightly dimmer than when key is turned on)
stays on until polarized or key shut off.
 
   / FORD 4000 Not Charging #29  
lamp should not be on with key off. have yo verified the wireing on that tractor at the reg,key and cluster?
 
   / FORD 4000 Not Charging #30  
no changes were made.... only replaced voltage regulator, and Generator.
generator was tested and required replcement.
Voltage regulator also required replacement, light on with key off and wires got hot when battery connected.
Stated likely problem in Voltage regulator.
Voltage regulator replaced, and condition is as described currently.

When polarized, seems to work fine. Until RPM's are low or tractor is shut off.
Start tractor and light is on .... with no charge condition.
polarize and light goes off... charge condition when tested at Battery(>13 volts)

Will check wiring at Key, and Regulator. When you say Cluster, do you mean instrument cluster? and anything specifically to look at?
 

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