Oil & Fuel Ford 1700 Injector Pump Running WIDE OPEN

[Danimal]

I just picked up a Ford 1700 4WD that has been sitting for about a year and a half. Story goes the PO was rototilling the neighbor's garden, brought it home, parked it in the drive and started to take off the injector pump but didn't finish. Unfortunately, he was elderly with dimentia and alzheimers so there wasn't a clear reason behind it. He got worse and eventually passed away.

Another guy picked it up via an estate sale and swapped it to me for an old Chevy truck I had. My sons and I got the parts, pulled the timing cover off and got things lined back up. Fuel lines were located in PA and shipped in and this afternoon the boys got it fired up following instructions on how to bleed the pump found on this site (thanks!)

Problem is, there is no throttle response, it just runs at WOT and is dumping a ton of fuel in. The only way to shut the tractor off is to turn the fuel tank valve off and let it starve. Black smoke pouring out the whole time.

We are going to pull the end cover off but would like to know what we might need to be looking for. Does anyone have an exploded view of the pump? The shaft is turning with the throttle arm so the rod isn't stuck. I don't know much about diesels and made the swap for this tractor because I got the rototiller with it and figured I could let my two FFA boys mess around with a simple diesel.

Your help is greatly appreciated.

 

[Danimal]

Tractor has about 800 hours on it and, yes, the injector pump had little to no oil in it. I broke the paint on the screws to open them up and check/fill. I'm almost wondering if I shouldn't take the plate off and spray it all good with something like PB Blaster and let it soak for a day or so.

 

[TraderMark]

Danimal,
My suggestion would be to remove the pump and have a diesel pump shop tear it down to see if there are any serious problems from lack of oil.

But if you want to tear into it yourself, there's an exploded view of the injection pump on the CNH website.

Just go here.

Highlight the Parts and Service tab, then select "Search for Parts".

That should take you to the parts catalogs where you can type in your model number and see a complete parts manual for your machine.

Hope this helps.

Mark

 

[Danimal]

Looks like everything moves freely. Is there anything that can be turned up/down in/out like an idle adjuster that someone may have messed with?

 

[rayikeo2]

Looks like everything moves freely. Is there anything that can be turned up/down in/out like an idle adjuster that someone may have messed with?

This is just a wild hair thought...Maybe your throttle linkage is out of adjustment. Have you thought of that and looked it over? With the tractor off, move it up and down to see if it is working right. There is a foot pedal also.

 

[JC-jetro]

Looks like everything moves freely. Is there anything that can be turned up/down in/out like an idle adjuster that someone may have messed with?

Do you see all the throttle linkages as pictured below. If so do you have full stroke of the linkage at the injector. Linkage can be adjusted up and down as the pics shows.






Additionally, there is a governor on the injector pump that works on centrifugal force. The counter weight might be stuck open which caused the throttle to stay full open without modulation.

JC,

 

[Danimal]

JC,

Sticks wide open even with the linkage disconnected and modulating by hand. There is no "off" or "WOT" or "in between" functionality. It just runs full out. At first the lever was very stiff so I was afraid it may have been stripped on the shaft that goes into the pump but the shaft does move. After spraying it and soaking then working it back and forth, it is very free.

My son has the cover off but end of the year showcase tonight so we'll look into the governor tomorrow. That's what it feels like, the governor just letting it run all the way up. He said everything moves inside but there appears to be a cam that has something adjusting it all the way in one direction. (Phone conversation at lunch today)

I'll dig into it tomorrow after work.

Thanks to all for the help! This is why I joined.

 

[JC-jetro]

JC,

Sticks wide open even with the linkage disconnected and modulating by hand. There is no "off" or "WOT" or "in between" functionality. It just runs full out. At first the lever was very stiff so I was afraid it may have been stripped on the shaft that goes into the pump but the shaft does move. After spraying it and soaking then working it back and forth, it is very free.

My son has the cover off but end of the year showcase tonight so we'll look into the governor tomorrow. That's what it feels like, the governor just letting it run all the way up. He said everything moves inside but there appears to be a cam that has something adjusting it all the way in one direction. (Phone conversation at lunch today)

I'll dig into it tomorrow after work.

I had a picture of back of the injector cover where is shows the counter weight for the governor. I'm thinking the oil in the injector is fouled up or something keeps the weight from moving in and out against the governor spring. I have changed the oil in the injector a few times and few weeks ago I actually measured it to be 2 oz. The oil is the same as diesel oil you use for the crankcase. If I were you, i'd pull the back cover off the injector for inspection and oil change. The cover has a spring on it, make sure not to lose it. I'll post the pic when I find it. search for ford 1700 injection pump or oil here and you'll find several good hits.

JC,


PS. I re-read the post, I suppose you meant he opened the back plate of the injector? if so can he moves the weight at all? was there any oil coming out?

 

[Danimal]

There was some nastiness along with the oil. I'd added oil to fill it previously. He got the back cover off and we'll compare your picture to our to see about the weights. I think that it acts like something along those lines could be the culprit but with the yuck that came out, it ran a while with little oil.

I'd read somewhere else that the oil fill should be 60 cc which is 2 ounces so you measured it the same way.

Is this the thread you are talking about JC? I'm using it as a benchmark when I go out later today. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...ng/144468-ford-1500-1700-injector-pump-3.html

 

[JC-jetro]

There was some nastiness along with the oil. I'd added oil to fill it previously. He got the back cover off and we'll compare your picture to our to see about the weights. I think that it acts like something along those lines could be the culprit but with the yuck that came out, it ran a while with little oil.

I'd read somewhere else that the oil fill should be 60 cc which is 2 ounces so you measured it the same way.

Is this the thread you are talking about JC? I'm using it as a benchmark when I go out later today. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...ng/144468-ford-1500-1700-injector-pump-3.html

Yep... Good find There is whole bunch of good info there. Hopefully, it'll help you to diagnose and fix your problem.

JC,

 

[Danimal]

No such luck...yet. Everything appears to turn and move and flip and spring from what can be seen. He sprayed it down good with a rust inhibitor (not PB, not WD, another type) and put it back together.

What should pull the throttle back? The dash lever pulls it back but turning the dash lever CCW lets it stay there. Am I missing a spring or perhaps something inside is just weak? Hope to have a diesel friend over to check it out.

Did find out it is an '82.

 

[JC-jetro]

No such luck...yet. Everything appears to turn and move and flip and spring from what can be seen. He sprayed it down good with a rust inhibitor (not PB, not WD, another type) and put it back together.

What should pull the throttle back? The dash lever pulls it back but turning the dash lever CCW lets it stay there. Am I missing a spring or perhaps something inside is just weak? Hope to have a diesel friend over to check it out.

Did find out it is an '82.

Okay, I looked at my picture library and could not find a pic where I directly looked down from top of the injector to see if there is a spring. What I know for a fact, the normal position of the injector arm is all the way to the right at lowest rpm. That lowest rpm is also established by throttle lever on the dash.

Does the arm on the injector pump moves right or left?
what is arm on injector position with hand throttle fully up?

A shaft comes out of opposite side of theh injector that the arm is attached to. It does have a jam nut. The arm might have slipped. I have had it happen to HVAC equipment where the damper rod slipped from the motorized controller where it messed up operation of a damper. You might have a situation like that here. Check for slippage sign or if the jam nut is tight.

On pic below I might add a spring or small bungee from the arm to something ... may be the radiator hose temporarily and test it out to see if it goes to normal low rpm and weather you could rev it up or down.

JC,



ps. I might go to my place tomorrow. I'll check for spring if i go.

 

[Danimal]

Checked the shaft to lever and no slippage. With the throttle shaft OFF and moving the lever by hand we can't change the speed. All the way forward is WOT, all the way back is WOT. No change.

When we first started, the lever was VERY stiff but now, after a week of soaking and working it, it moves pretty well. I was concerned about the insides not moving but you can feel them and see the little lever that has the spring on it move just above the governor.

I'm using "Fluid Film" for my penetrant. It is what I use on my sheep shearing equipment.

 

[JC-jetro]

Checked the shaft to lever and no slippage. With the throttle shaft OFF and moving the lever by hand we can't change the speed. All the way forward is WOT, all the way back is WOT. No change.

When we first started, the lever was VERY stiff but now, after a week of soaking and working it, it moves pretty well. I was concerned about the insides not moving but you can feel them and see the little lever that has the spring on it move just above the governor.

I'm using "Fluid Film" for my penetrant. It is what I use on my sheep shearing equipment.

I think something might be mucked up in the injector pump leading to seizing a part... Obviously you realize, " I'm just guessing" I have a exploded view of the pump that I can try to dig up if you need .

JC,

 

[Danimal]

JC, Thanks for the offer for the exploded view. I've got the one from the CNH site. I'll go through it and see what I can see. We may just pull the pump off and start scrubbing!

 

[JC-jetro]

JC, Thanks for the offer for the exploded view. I've got the one from the CNH site. I'll go through it and see what I can see. We may just pull the pump off and start scrubbing!

If you end up doing it , then please take good close up picture for my future (hopefully very distant) use. There are two plunger that are removed from the top. I might carefully take them off on the tractor for inspection and cleaning before taking the pump off. It might help some. Make sure put witness make on the injector and housing for timing the injector.

JC,

 

[Danimal]

I definitely will mark it. I do NOT want to screw the timing up. There are some marks on it already, which helped putting it back together the first time. Fortunately, the guy didn't disconnect the gears from the pump, he just left it hanging through the hole!

The two plungers, do you mean the ports for the fuel lines? We have discovered today that the rear one isn't pumping fuel yet so I've sprayed some stuff in it as well to see if I can get it moving. The lines were off of it for over a year. Even with a tarp on it, I'm sure gunk got down in there. I started trying to take the ports off the top today but they are definitely ON there.

I'll keep at it, though and keep you posted. Thanks for your help.

 

[JC-jetro]

The two plungers, do you mean the ports for the fuel lines?
I'll keep at it, though and keep you posted. Thanks for your help.

yep, I'm taking the port on top (two) that houses the plunger. It appears from studying of the diagram, there is a cam shaft with two lobes the the plunger up and down causing fuel to be pumped. pretty much like a hydro pump (positive displacement) with a swash plate. The picture below id from one of the guys here (Russel). sure wished to have an opportunity to open one up for a looksy... obviously not on a good running one. If you're careful you might be able to overhaul without buying more part.


JC,

 

[Danimal]

JC, biggest fear is breaking something! Going to pick up an impact driver tomorrow to get the 3 phillips off the side plate and a cheap deep well that I can grind down because I can't get a box end on the tops of the ports. Looks like there is also a valve underneath each one.

What the heck, it's ONLY $1700 for a new one...YIKES!

 

[JC-jetro]

JC, biggest fear is breaking something! Going to pick up an impact driver tomorrow to get the 3 phillips off the side plate and a cheap deep well that I can grind down because I can't get a box end on the tops of the ports. Looks like there is also a valve underneath each one.

What the heck, it's ONLY $1700 for a new one...YIKES!

Dan,

So you're saying 3 philips head screws are so tight that you can not get them off using screwdriver? I'd be careful with the impact driver as the case is aluminum. I'd rather destroy screw head before damaging the case. should not be too difficult to find the right screw.

Can you not use normal side of the wrench rather than the box end? how about a 6" crescent wrench? are the nuts rounded off? why not put some electrical tape on the nut to protect the surface and grabbing it with needle nose visegrip to just loosen it. I hate to booger up the nut but at times I ended up using a very small pipe wrench to loosen up rounded off nuts also.

JC,