Ford 1700 clutch adjustment

[JC-jetro]

I guess the next step is to pull the steering column and see if there is something simple causing the throwout bearing to hang in a forward position. I just can't figure out what the likely cause of this trouble might be.

Thank you, JC-jetro, for taking the time and effort to help me through this, and take pictures of your tractor.

I advise against it now as you can find all you need without doing so. Again, all I was trying to tell is " you can visually check if the bearing is riding the fingers or not".

Were you able to look at the last pic I posted. Can you identify the finger visually? If you do so then it is quite easy to see if the bearing surface is touchging the fingers or not. Steerin column does not need not be taken off to verify that. It takes a flash light only. This can be done visualy without a split and 1700 access hole would afford you that. That is a great feature of this tractor.

You can verify one finger at a time though. So again going back to raising the axle to afford you turning the wheel so you can check all the 3 fingers of the pressure plate.

Do look at the picture of the pressur plate that I posted earlier on a tractor split. You must identify the fingers and verify if it is touching the bearing or not. This does not require a tractor split or steering column removal.


JC,

 

[284 International]

The throwout bearing is touching the fingers.

 

[JC-jetro]

The throwout bearing is touching the fingers.

Do you see the retaining spring thru the hole? the sporing helps the bearing carrier to retreat to normal position. is it missing? disconnect the pivot point as it is shown below. get a rubber mallet and hit the arm that turns CW and CCW. That might free up the bearing holder on the shaft. I'm thinking if the bearing holder does not easily slide on the input carrier shaft. visually inspect from the hole. with the pivot removed the arm should be easily move back and forth till you hit the pressure plate spring.

JC,

 

[284 International]

I can't see a retaining spring; that only means I can't see it, not that it is or isn't there.

I've tried moving the arm when I disconnected the clutch pedal. It has some free play in-perhaps 1/4" to 3/8"-clockwise/counterclockwise. I haven't tried driving the bottom arm toward the front of the tractor, since that's where the end of the threaded rod would be.

 

[JC-jetro]

I can't see a retaining spring; that only means I can't see it, not that it is or isn't there.

I've tried moving the arm when I disconnected the clutch pedal. It has some free play in-perhaps 1/4" to 3/8"-clockwise/counterclockwise. I haven't tried driving the bottom arm toward the front of the tractor, since that's where the end of the threaded rod would be.

No it should be moving a lot more than that. to the extent of activating Neutral safety switch as pictured previously. I think your bearing carrier is frozen(rusted) to the shaft. Pic below also shows the spring I'm talking about. looking thru the hoe and you should be able to see the top spring and a small mirror can enable you see the spring on the bottom. it is time for you to get the big guns, 4 lb sledge hammer that it you need to free it up at the very least.

JC,

 

[284 International]

Won't it only activate the safety switch when the clutch pedal is depressed (down facing arm of bell crank is pulled back)? I can press the pedal down and fully disengage the clutch. The free play I was talking about was with the linkage detached, and the bell crank had some movement fore and aft; that is, it didn't feel tightly bound. I could move it with finger pressure, but to depress the clutch springs I'm too weak to move it much with my fingers.

 

[284 International]

Thank you for all the pictures, it's really going to prove useful. I appreciate your time.

 

[JC-jetro]

Won't it only activate the safety switch when the clutch pedal is depressed (down facing arm of bell crank is pulled back)? I can press the pedal down and fully disengage the clutch. The free play I was talking about was with the linkage detached, and the bell crank had some movement fore and aft; that is, it didn't feel tightly bound. I could move it with finger pressure, but to depress the clutch springs I'm too weak to move it much with my fingers.

when the pedal is pushed in the bracket does tow things, one side of it activate the neutral safety switch and the other side rotate a shaft (goes thru bell housing) that pushes the bearing carrier forward. There are couple of pins that keeps it on the shaft from slipping and it has a back up wire to keep the pin from coming out. Although it is quite unlikely, it might have sheared off not allowing correct manipulation of of pedal. you can't fight the pressure plate spring by hand. After all of this, when the fingers not touching the bearing, then do you see less or no gap between pressure plate and friction disk? that's the key discovery.

JC,

 

[284 International]

After all of this, when the fingers not touching the bearing, then do you see less or no gap between pressure plate and friction disk? that's the key discovery.

That's the thing, I can't get any clearance between the fingers and the bearing. I know that is the trouble, I can't figure out how to isolate what is keeping the bearing forward, especially since there is slack in the bracket.

 

[JC-jetro]

That's the thing, I can't get any clearance between the fingers and the bearing. I know that is the trouble, I can't figure out how to isolate what is keeping the bearing forward, especially since there is slack in the bracket.

The holder/bearing can slide forward and return to normal position. If another person pushed the pedal and you watch thru the hole with a flash light you might be able to see where it sticks. I don't know if the springs can sprung out due to breakage hence touching the bearing all the time. if you look at the pic of the pressure plate on one my earlier page you see big spring right under each finger and a pivot point on the opposite side of the finger. if the pivot popped out then I can see the tip of finger touching the bearing at all time.



JC,

 

[284 International]

The holder/bearing can slide forward and return to normal position.

Maybe I don't understand how these work. I thought the throwout bearing moves toward the front of the tractor when the clutch pedal is depressed, and that there is something keeping it from sliding away from the engine.

 

[JC-jetro]

Maybe I don't understand how these work. I thought the throwout bearing moves toward the front of the tractor when the clutch pedal is depressed, and that there is something keeping it from sliding away from the engine.

I'm kind of perplexed with the question. Take a look at the link below. that might make it may be more clear. release /throwout bearing move ofrward just enough to push the fingers toward the flywheel enough to release spring pressure to disengage the clutch.



JC,


File:Clutch illustration.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Clutch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[284 International]

I think we're saying the same thing. The throwout bearing moves forward, against the fingers of the pressure plate/diaphragm. That releases the spring pressure on the friction disk between the flywheel and pressure plate, causing the clutch to be disengaged.

I think there is something binding the throwout bearing partway forward, or disengaged, and keeping it from sliding toward the transmission end of the shaft, and allowing full spring pressure to the friction disk.

 

[JC-jetro]

I think we're saying the same thing. The throwout bearing moves forward, against the fingers of the pressure plate/diaphragm. That releases the spring pressure on the friction disk between the flywheel and pressure plate, causing the clutch to be disengaged.

I think there is something binding the throwout bearing partway forward, or disengaged, and keeping it from sliding toward the transmission end of the shaft, and allowing full spring pressure to the friction disk.

in normal situation with the clutch out the bearing holder has to be all the way back against the two tab on the holder where the spring is attached. is it resting there or not?

JC,

 

[284 International]

I can't tell, and am not around the tractor to check. The machine has a loader, and the upright post goes across part of the sight hole, so I can't see as much as I should. I can check this evening, but I'm not sure if I'll be able to see that far back.

 

[284 International]

I have taken a photograph of the throwout carrier with the pedal adjusted fully out. It's clearly in contact with the rod.

One of the fingers has clearance between it and the throwout bearing. Not lots, but clearly some: 2-3mm (not quite but almost 1/8"). I apologize for the poor photograph, even on macro I couldn't get the camera to focus properly.

 

[JC-jetro]

yes, that's what I wanted to see. With clutch out even with one milliliter of gap there is still no interference. if the gap is too small when tractor is cold then I can see as things heat up finger and bearing might actually slightly touch due to expansion and that might cause the slight occasional slippage. I'd try to manipulate adjustment externally however I can to increase that gap and visually inspect it afterward. I'd have the cover off and when the clutch slips I do a visual. I know the tractor has not ran long enough to heat up. The pressure plate spring might not be up to snuff to cause enough friction or you have some glazing on the disk or pressure plate that reduces friction factor. The rest of the stuff look like how it should be and you did not need to split or take the steering column off. I think you eventually will gain on this thing with the addition of a starter.

JC,

 

[284 International]

This is with the clutch pedal disconnected and the bellcrank manually moved. You can see there is plenty of room. Even prying on the bearing with a prybar, though, I can't get clearance between the bearing and the fingers.

 

[JC-jetro]

well, that's not good. now, within the few milliliter that you have can you mover the bearing holder for and aft easily?

Now you realize there is 3 fingers that the pressure plate has and you have just verified one. With the starter removed and glow plug loosened you might turn the flywheel some to see if all fingers have the same gap to the bearing. The pressure plate has some total of 6 bolts that attaches it to the flywheel. Although unlikely, is there possibility that a bolt of two is lose or come off causing pressure plate not to be perfectly parallel to flywheel? you can verify the bolts and even tighten them with off set box end wrench. if none of these bear any fruits I then think the pressure plate has spring failure or is warped causing the fingers geometry change. That result will force you to a tractor split. bright side of it that you have on line (Fleabay) sources that you can by the whole assembly less than $200.

JC,


Ford 1000 1310,1500,1700,1900 shibaura tractor clutch | eBay

 

[jones6780]

Well just my 2 cents worth.... I can see clearance between 1 presure plate finger and the throw-out bearing. Rotate the engine and check the other 2 fingers. As the clutch wears the presure plate moves forward and the 3 fingers move backwards. If you do not have clearance then you do not have full pressure on the clutch and the clutch "could" slip. If you can not solve the clearance problem or, if you have clearance and it still slips, then I would split the tractor and replace the clutch, presure plate, throw-out bearing and pilot bearing.

Just saw JC's post on the presure plate bolts. That would be good to check that they are tight.
Russell