Ford 1500 Steering Slop

[old1500]

I launched an investigation into some excess slack in the steering on my late-80-early-81 1500. I purchased the little monster used and don't have much history, other than it was set-up with a belly mower at one time. I suspect commercial mowing or golf course work. Anyway...when I turn the steering wheel I notice the cross-shaft "moves" laterally when I apply wheel pressure. The drawings do not indicate any bearing in the housing, so I suspect either shaft wear or wear on the surfaces of the load deck where the shaft protrudes. There is some reference to a "bushing" in the load deck, which I would rather not pay the hundreds of $$$ being asked for the part. The drawing does not show this bushing as an individual part.

I think the same system was used on the 1300 through 1700 models, but I also have discovered they changed the part numbers in 83 for the cross shaft.

No...I have not pulled it apart. It works like it is and I do not want to tear it apart and then discover I need a part I can't find. I would rather try the forum here to see if anyone has any experience with the shaft or load deck replacement....or a busing not shown in the load deck.

I could have a machinist install a bushing for much less money that they want for a new one.

ANY HELP OUT THERE????

 

[Soundguy]

I DO see thrust bearings in that box

upper is:

SBA334290710 BEARING ASSY

lower is:

SBA334290131 BEARING ASSY

21 and 4 on the CNH drawing of the manual box..

thurst bearing play wil magnify any other play.

I see there is also a sctor backlash adjustment for the sector gear to ballnut.

it's a bummer that there appears to be no sector shaft bushing.. if you are getting the sector shaft to move fore / back before beginning rotational movement.. the shaft or housing is wore.. however.. I bet a machinist could bore and install a bushing.. or weld and cut a new bore, ore reface the shaft if it is worn on the seal diameter.

soundguy

 

[old1500]

We are on the same page there Soundguy. I had discovered in the 83 model year they installed a bushing, but the 79-82 models do not have the bushing. The 83 carries a different part number. As opposed to springing for the $576 for an 83 part....I feel just like you do and a good machinist should be able to install a bushing and take out that slack. I have adjusted the backlash and made a "tiny" difference, but I am pretty sure I have serious case/housing wear. The seal appears to be holding the lubricant in place, as there is no leak, but I have a"visible" amount of fore-n-aft movement.

I don't plan to tear it down until later this fall. All I do is a little rotary cutter work to keep my roads open across the place and drag a trailer around the for firewood cutting, etc.

I appreciate the discussion....you sound like a man that knows what he is doing. You know how it is when you want something....I think I was looking for a reply like...."hey man...I got a brand new one of those in a box for $100". I know.....that would be a pie-n-the-sky response.

BTW....I have kids and grand-kids over there (barely) in Florida.....Pensacola that is.

 

[Soundguy]

manual gearboxes are easy.. I don't mind them at all... now power steering boxes on the other hand.. I don't like to mess with them, and thus have less experience or advice on them.. I don't like taking the blocks apart with the thousands of springs and balls and whatnot in them and then trying to get it all back together like a chinese fire drill..

you might check with a salvage yard like wengers of pa to see if you can get a late style box.. and that way if it needs rebuilding, it's already cut for a bushing.. that or as mentioned.. bore and bush.

if the seal lets go before you decide on a repair method, go buy some NLGI 00# grease ( jd cornhead grease is an example ).. and pump the gearbox full.. the grease is sticky and will flow to fill voids after it sets... that are many many old mower gear boxes and old tractor steering boxes filled with 00# grease.

In fact.. I have a copy of a ford service bulletin from 1962 stating to fill ford manual steering boxes with grease to prevent sector seal leaks . ( bulletin number 100 ( 1237 ) dated 10-31-1962 )

soundguy

 

[BWBrown]

I just replaced the steering box on my 1700 (pretty much the same as 1500 I think - many parts will interchange) with power steering. Prior to that, I replaced the oil plug with a reducing bushing to adapt to a grease zerk fitting.
Worked well.
Bob

 

[old1500]

Soundguy made the same suggestion....grease I mean. Either mine is not losing any fluid or has none left in it as I have no leaks around the shaft seal.

At's what I plan to do....if it's dry. I'll pump it full of grease until I have the time to rip it apart and have the case fixed or replaced.

I have a little "slack" in several places around the front end and maybe when I work on some of that, I can take out enough slack to last until me or the tractor are "done in".

I have noticed a good bit of lateral axle movement in the axle-to-frame connection. I think there are some bushings or spacers in those two connecting points (front side and back side). I have not pulled any of that and it may do as much (or more) good that fooling with the steering box. I can't get the front side to take any grease...so that probably indicates something, as in it never was greased before!

ANYBODY EVER BEEN IN THERE?

 

[JC-jetro]

FYI. Steering column and housing gets ford 134 fluid rather than grease.

JC,

 

[old1500]

Understood there JC, but I think the purpose of putting the 00 grease in there is when the seal is leaking due to shaft/housing wear. Soundguy (above) has a reference to an old service bulletin. I realize it's dated a bit, but I suppose if you can't keep fluid in there....the grease may stay put until the case/shaft can be repaired. Heck.....I ain't even checked mine to see if it has anything in there anyway.....talk about lazy....that's me now and then.

Obviously, I don't use my tractor on a routine basis or to make a living.

 

[Soundguy]

sure.. in a new tight box.. 134.. in one that leaks.. 00# grease. the old bulleting I have is dated 62.. so way before this 'new' machine.. but the basics of a mechanical worm shaft/sector steering box hasn't changed any..

soundguy

 

[JC-jetro]

sure.. in a new tight box.. 134.. in one that leaks.. 00# grease. the old bulleting I have is dated 62.. so way before this 'new' machine.. but the basics of a mechanical worm shaft/sector steering box hasn't changed any..

soundguy

I agree and have no issue with the statement at all. How would rate thick solidified grease in the box in northern winter climate.

JC,

 

[Soundguy]

it's a tradeoff for sure. oil.. even 140w or even 300w marine oil.. will slowly leak out of a bad seal.. even in cold territories.

00# grease may weep a bit but won't leak very much even out a bad seal.

00# grease will slowly slump to fill a void as created in the steering box by the sector gear rotating and the ballnut moving up and down... the sticky nature of the grease makes it cling to the gears and lube well.. at the end of the day when the machine is sleeping, the grease slumps back into place to recoat everything for the next work day.

since this isn't a high speed gear box or a tranny or a diffy.. drag from cold lube is a real non issue. The grease won't be freezing.. so that's a non issue as well. I've packed a steering gearbox with short fibre stiff axle grease before... because it was all I had.. ..ie #4 grease..and needed to get a job done..and... with the extreme mechanical advantage a worm setup gives... it really made no difference on the steering.. honestly.. on a 2wd non power stering setup.. grease.. oil.. whatever you pack the box with.. as long as it lubes.. it will be fine... besides.. once you steer lock to lock once.. you open a void, and just have the sticky residue on the worm and gear surfaces anyway.. I'd wager that's less drag than even a light 30w oil bath.

lots of mower gearboxes can also use a 00# grease. my howse 10' mower can use either 140w oil.. or 00# grease. have seen landscape maint equipment that also uses 00# grease in their gearboxes... it's not all that uncommon.. look at the jd application.. their 00# grease is 'cornhead' grease.. as in.. it goes in those header gearboxes...

soundguy

 

[Egon]

[cold lube is a real non issue./QUOTE]

Hmm, in the cold climate's all that stuff seems to turn solid!:laughing:

Them steering wheels turn just a little harder and sometimes you gota wait a few minutes before a manual transmission can be shifted. You might even haft to wait a few minutes before you can release the clutch without stalling the motor.

 

[JC-jetro]

since this isn't a high speed gear box or a tranny or a diffy.. drag from cold lube is a real non issue. The grease won't be freezing.. so that's a non issue as well.

soundguy

I'm sold the key is " high speed". My concern is if you don't create enough heat in the steering box then congealed heavy grease might be stuck to the inside of the case and not do a good job of lubrication.

JC,

 

[Soundguy]

sure.. a cavity is formed on the first movement.. but the grease is a sticky formulation with high film strength.. then it slowly slumps back into place to recoat the gears.. presumably after some running the stering box will be warmed by the rest of the tractor it is bolted to.. even on a cold day.

like I said.. it was good enough for ford back then as a seal leak stop.. and the technology ain't changed any on that mechanical steering box.

plenty of old fords running with greased boxes these days.. and them oldies are likely to outlast their new counterparts

I just did a pto seal and bearing job on my 1955 740. 37$ bought the seal, bearing, wear ring and gasket... all in stock on the shelf at my local CNH dealer... heck.. I can't even find parts for my 98 dodge in stock and on the shelf at a chrysler dealer these days..t then I suspect most of my antique tractors will outlast most of my auto's.. )

soundguy

 

[old1500]

Doesn't snow or freeze that much where I live guys....well...we have gotten more than our normal share of snow the past two winters, but it doesn't last long. I'll likely go with the grease.


I had mentioned this earlier, but it got clouded in the discussion....Anybody been in the front axle to frame connection area of these little monsters? The drawings don't seem exactly clear to me as to what is wearing out causing the slight lateral movement in the axle assembly, but it has to be in that connection. I just hate to tear something down and then wait on parts. Is there a bushing/bushings I need to pre-order? Mine has the adjustable front axle....if it matters.

 

[JC-jetro]

I had mentioned this earlier, but it got clouded in the discussion....Anybody been in the front axle to frame connection area of these little monsters? The drawings don't seem exactly clear to me as to what is wearing out causing the slight lateral movement in the axle assembly, but it has to be in that connection. I just hate to tear something down and then wait on parts. Is there a bushing/bushings I need to pre-order? Mine has the adjustable front axle....if it matters.

Old,

There re two bushings (#11) there as the pic suggests. if it ran dry might cause wear and subsequent lateral movement. There are grease zerks in front and the in the back that I filled it choke full of grease when I bought my tractor. You might be lucky and find a pipe same dia, thickness as the bushing to make your own. obviously need much dis-assembly.

JC,

Look at the attached files as well

 

[old1500]

My 1500 has the adjustable axle also, and the parts look pretty much the same. You can bet that I have tried as hard as I can (including installing a new grease fitting) to get some juice up in there. The back side took it, but the front would not, so something must be galled or rusted together in the front coupling. I bet when I get my lazy butt out there and pull that, I can come up with the bushing or a "customized" something-or-another.

I have been using partspring.com as a resource for parts and diagrams. They do show a bushing in there as part #27 on the 1500 diagram, but do not have it listed for sale. They show the entire unit as a "sump"....but are out of stock.

I think there are some slight differences between the 1500 and 1700, but that connection system looks about the same.

 

[JC-jetro]

My 1500 has the adjustable axle also, and the parts look pretty much the same. You can bet that I have tried as hard as I can (including installing a new grease fitting) to get some juice up in there. The back side took it, but the front would not, so something must be galled or rusted together in the front coupling. I bet when I get my lazy butt out there and pull that, I can come up with the bushing or a "customized" something-or-another.

I have been using partspring.com as a resource for parts and diagrams. They do show a bushing in there as part #27 on the 1500 diagram, but do not have it listed for sale. They show the entire unit as a "sump"....but are out of stock.

I think there are some slight differences between the 1500 and 1700, but that connection system looks about the same.

My bad Old, I dod not even realize I posted 1700 rather 1500. would have been the same effort to post 1500 instead. concept is pretty much the same.

JC,

 

[old1500]

That is a great site you have access to for the parts and diagrams. I can't join it as I am no dealer. Partspring is "similar", but it's open to the public. I have gotten an item-or-two from them.

If you get around to looking close at the 1500...the diagram that I have does not show that pin or shaft protruding from the frame like your 1700 photo does....just shows an opening. The blow-ups show the bushing or plug (one on each side of the frame member).

Post me that one for the 1500 when you want to do me another favor and I will see if it's the same as the Partspring diagram.

 

[Soundguy]

. I can't join it as I am no dealer. .

What about the parts diagram from the new holand website parts lookup section.. that's where i view mine when I'm away from my manuals..

soundguy