Ford 1210 No Start - No Idea Why

[greedypebbles]

Hi

I have an old Ford 1210. A while back, for no real reason I can see, it just refused to start. It turns over, glow plugs heat up, it has fuel, it just wont fire up.

What really confuses me is that it worked one day (aside from a hydraulic issue which I trust is irrelevant) but then the next day it just refused to start. Nothing happened to it over night, it wasnt stood for a long time, I didnt mess with it, it just point blank now refuses to run.

I'm no mechanic, just a basic DIYer, but I always work on principle that if you have fuel and compression it will run. Well it has fuel and I see no reason why it wouldnt have compression.

Any ideas, anyone? Any suggestions for what to look into would be gratefully accepted, otherwise I'm going to have to resort to paying someone to look at it.

Thanks in advance

 

[dusty3030]

Does it have fuel?
When it turns over is there unburned fuel coming out of the exhaust? Should be white puffs and you should be able to smell it.

Just because there is fuel going to the pump doesn't mean the pump is sending fuel to the injectors.

 

[greedypebbles]

Hi Dusty and thanks for replying.

Yes, there is white smoke from the exhaust and you can smell the diesel coming through.

I have done a lot of googling around in recent days and come up with possible battery no good or starter not turning fast enough but it doesnt seem to be turning over any slower than it used to. I begrudge taking a chance on buying a new battery or spending on having the starter rebuilt if this isnt the problem. Would rather dismiss all other (free of cost) options first. Plus I tried jumping it off a good battery in my car and it didnt help in any way.

 

[Harry in Ky]

If you have smoke, then you must have fuel. I'd be looking hard at the glowplugs. You claim they seem to be working, but if they are, it should start. As we all know, it WON'T start without them. I'd be checking to see if they actually work not just have power applied

 

[Btown]

If you have smoke, then you must have fuel. I'd be looking hard at the glowplugs. You claim they seem to be working, but if they are, it should start. As we all know, it WON'T start without them. I'd be checking to see if they actually work not just have power applied

All my diesels start fine in warm weather with no glow plugs. But there may be some that don't if they are low compression diesels. Maybe try jumpstarting from another battery and see if that helps.

 

[greedypebbles]

Hello Harry and BTown, thanks for the replies

I have cheked out glow plugs and they heat up nicely.

Tried starting with lube oil spray in air box to help it start, but still nothing.

Took exhaust manifold off and noticed cylinders full of black, sludgy oil. Cleaned it out as best I could, sprayed lube into cylinders and turned over. Rebuilt, tried again, still no start and white smoke puff.

This black sludgy oil reminds me of the hydraulic issue I had that I originally wanted to fix but couldnt get it started. Is it even possible for the engine and the hydraulics to be an interconnected problem?

 

[greedypebbles]

Ok, I've tried again, jumped it off a big diesel engine so I know the power is there. Used cold start spray, lots of it. It felt like it was going to run, nearly got there but just wouldnt quite catch.

I appreciate any replies so far but would really, really appreciate any more thoughts anyone might have.

Thanks in advance

 

[jimmysisson]

Any way for you to take a compression test? All that smudge could be from the many times you tried starting. Still seems like it should fire with the ether (not recommended by most).
Jim

 

[greedypebbles]

Jim, thanks. It has to be a compression issue but I dont have a diesel comp tester. I am starting to think that whatever is wrong here, it aint gonna be a quick fix.

 

[Raw Dodge]

If I were you I'd make sure the oil level is adequate,then I'd pop start it ,pull it with another tractor or a truck ,put your tractor in high gear and pull it,if it's going to run this will get it lit off,you may. Have air in the file line,but if it's huffing smoke cranking you should have fuel,also it should lite off on ether...you should only need to be. Pulled 5-7 mph to get it lit off,I'd drag it a quarter mile or so,it's your best way to get it lit...

 

[greedypebbles]

Thanks for the additional advice..... Unfortunately pulling it is not as easy as it might sound because of where it is and the fact the FEL and more specifically backhoe are on the ground.

I changed the oil. Put in plenty of nice and thick oil and an additive which (so the bottle told me) was supposed to further improve compression.

Still wont start. Even with start spray.

Does anyone know - can a hydraulic problem affect the engine. Last time it ran the hydrauics packed in and black oil started pouring out of the control levers. I had planned on changing the fluid, hoping that for some reason this would fix it, but now this problem came along and kind of changed my priorities.

Really appreciate your input. Thanks again.

 

[Fawken]

Its so easy on those models I assume you already pulled the valve cover, checked the valve clearances, and watched the rocker arms while cranking? Could also be a stuck valve, bent push rod, or diesel pump timing. Also, could actually be a head gasket. Mine went out in January after 35 years of service. Aftermarket starters, head gaskets, injectors are available for these models on ebay. Put a Chinese $75 starter on my 1100 4 years back and it still cranks like new.

Edit: My own personal feeling is NEVER use starting fluid on high comp diesels.

 

[greedypebbles]

Fawken

Valve cover off and all is well and moving properly.

If I thought taking the head off and replacing the gasket would fix it then I do that but I don't want to if its not the problem.

It seems a coincidence that this happened the same time as the hydraulic oil problem..

I notice the decompression unit (sorry I don't know what its called, its where the 'switch off' valve is) is fed by hydraulic lines. Could low hydraulic pressure cause the valve to stick open?

I'm clutching at straws here.

Thanks again

 

[Fawken]

Fawken

Valve cover off and all is well and moving properly.

If I thought taking the head off and replacing the gasket would fix it then I do that but I don't want to if its not the problem.

It seems a coincidence that this happened the same time as the hydraulic oil problem..

I notice the decompression unit (sorry I don't know what its called, its where the 'switch off' valve is) is fed by hydraulic lines. Could low hydraulic pressure cause the valve to stick open?

I'm clutching at straws here.

Thanks again

Let's start over:
To me a 1210 Ford is a 3 cyl diesel made by Shibaura of Japan in the 80's. Is that what you have? If so, it is very similar to my 1100 which I have owned and maintained for 32 years. There should never be black oil coming from the hydraulic lines or valves. Has the hydraulic fluid ever been changed" It should be clear. Also, there is no shut off valve for the hydraulics. There is a drain petcock for the fuel line right in front of the injector pump. If the pump has gone out you'll not get enough pressure to make your injector nozzles pop and spray. You'll gat some fuel, but the timing will be off as well.

 

[greedypebbles]

Maybe I didnt explain too well. Yes its a 1210 with 3 cylinder diesel, from the 1980's.

The shut off valve I am referring to is for the engine, its the valve you pull to decompress and kill the engine. I've tried to find what it is and I believe its the fuel governer.

When I say it has hydraulic feed I mean there is a part bolted direct below it which has a hydraulic feed.

Quite right to say that having black oil coming from hydraulics seems bad which is why I was concerned and was looking to trace that problem. I am more confused by that because the hydraulic oil on the dipstick is perfectly golden. The hydraulic issue was that the FEL packed up and then when the engine was switched off the black oil leaked out from the control levers.

I was now wondering if somehow the two things are linked. Would low hydraulic oil pressure or something related to the failed FEL now cause decompression in the cylinders and prevent engine starting? Or would a faulty fuel governer prevent starting and also cause the hydraulic issue? As I am not entirely clear how these two parts interact I am struggling to diagnose a problem here.

 

[MrWhippy]

Grasping at straws options:

1. Could the fuel be bad/contaminated/wrong fuel?
2. If you don't believe it's a compression problem, are the injectors worn or leaking so that you're not getting a good enough spray pattern to start?

 

[Creamer]

It sounds like you have tried a lot of things. A diesel needs compression, fuel, and possibly a little extra energy to light it off (Glow Plug).

Since you have checked the glow plugs and know that the white smoke is coming out we know that the fuel and that the fuel and heat are present. The existence of the black slimy stuff in the exhaust port is probably unburned fuel mixed with a little soot - more evidence that the fuel is present. Since the tractor turns over fine and the valves are operating I must assume the compression is OK. I think this takes us back to the most issue - fuel.

If fuel is getting into the cylinder in either insufficient quantities to burn or as a liquid stream instead of atomized it does not burn well - and it certainly does not light off well. Since this happened when ti was just shut off and wouldn't re-start I am thinking that it is probably due to either contamination settling and being in the wrong place at the wrong time, i.e. when you wanted to start it or something had built up while you were running it but because of the hot combustion chamber and momentum of the engine everything kept running but it cannot create the required starting conditions. This could be either pump or injectors and I would start with the injectors. Have them cleaned (or maybe somebody can provide a cleaning procedure) and see what that does. If the injector got partially plugged and is being held slightly open it isn't creating pressure for the required atomization. The injector needs to be closed to allow the pressure to build and then a quick spray of fuel before it shuts off again.

Have you checked the pump prime by cracking the fuel lines at the injector to make sure fluid flows freely there? I ask this from experience - one time mine would not start and we could see white smoke coming out of the exhaust. We cracked the fuel lines and fuel was coming out just not like it should. The problem was the pump had lost its prime - I have no idea how. It was as simple as loosening the plug on the pump and letting the air out - but it took me 3 weeks to find it and with some help. BTW the mechanic from the dealer stopped out and said it was the pump needed rebuilt. This didn't make sense to me and so i kept asking and finally as friend who does a lot of general car repairs was there and after we had pulled it for about 20 minutes and it didn't help we just started going through what it could be and the only thing we came up with was that it wasn't getting fuel properly.

The one thing that troubles me is that it does not start with starting fluid because it should technically run on starting fluid if it is continuously supplied and this is being supplied by a different system so the starting fluid should be getting into the cylinders.

The back hoe can easily be pulled up by releasing the pins and putting a strap on it to hold it up. Then you can pull it by running the chain under the scoop and the tension in the chain will lift the scoop.

Hope I helped! Good luck

 

[showcattle]

Grasping at straws here. Are you sure the fuel system is bled? I know our Ford 1100 could be a real pain to get started after fuel filter changes. Crack an injector line and see if you're getting fuel at all cylinders.

 

[greedypebbles]

Gents

Genuinely appreciate all your thoughts. I'll make a start at looking into injector or general fueling problems.

This is really getting me to me now. Its the first time I've had an old diesel engine, I've worked on plenty of old petrol engines and thought looking after this old girl this would be a doddle. Give me a spark plug and carburretor any day over this frustration!

 

[Creamer]

Gents

Genuinely appreciate all your thoughts. I'll make a start at looking into injector or general fueling problems.

This is really getting me to me now. Its the first time I've had an old diesel engine, I've worked on plenty of old petrol engines and thought looking after this old girl this would be a doddle. Give me a spark plug and carburretor any day over this frustration!

I am just the opposite - anything without electricity is good for me. Diesel just seems so much simpler - but that doesn't mean it can't be just a s frustrating.