FMCSA interpretation of GCWR

[Skyco]

I also agree about people who find a piece of property priced very well, but near a major highway. The highway was there first but they complain about the noise of the trucks and traffic, even though they got their land for a good deal. The highway was there first and they knew what they were getting into when they bought the property, too bad for them if they don't like the noise.

*I* have no problem with normal traffic noise- it is the ones that illegally remove their mufflers that are the problem. They would get fined and their vehicle impounded if it was up to me. Now to buy in a known noise area and complain about normal *legal* noise is silly...

If commercial vehicle enforcement IS about money why do they pass up an easy ticket for no mufflers? I also see commercial vehicles speeding routinely but rarely see one stopped. If it is safety pull over all the speeders..if its money write the muffler and speeding tickets without mercy.. I don't know what the typical truck cop's goal is..it really puzzles me.

 

[Skyco]

It's an engine brake, btw. I've turned a couple towns in to this link just for fun. Build your house on a large hill or major thruway and then tell me not to use a federally passed safety device? I don't think so.:confused2:

Well if you are legally and properly muffled they probably wouldn't know...

 

[The Haymaker]

If it is safety pull over all the speeders..if its money write the muffler and speeding tickets without mercy.. I don't know what the typical truck cop's goal is..it really puzzles me.

Actually, a study a few years back found that most trucks, on the average, do 3-4mph less than the flow of traffic. Speeding, maybe, but in my humble opinion anyone doing less than the flow of traffic is an accident waiting to happen because no one pays attention. Same reason I usually go with the higher speed flow while on my bike. I don't need some moron plucking her eyebrows or doing his note taken mowing me over.

 

[The Haymaker]

Well if you are legally and properly muffled they probably wouldn't know...

Truck is bone stock. I shut it off in a true residential, but other than that, I use it as intended. A brake or assistance to the primary brakes. I already mentioned I done condone tampering with the vehicles stock exhaust. We have enough ignorant lawmakers stacked against the industry already.

 

[Lt CHEG]

*I* have no problem with normal traffic noise- it is the ones that illegally remove their mufflers that are the problem. They would get fined and their vehicle impounded if it was up to me. Now to buy in a known noise area and complain about normal *legal* noise is silly...

If commercial vehicle enforcement IS about money why do they pass up an easy ticket for no mufflers? I also see commercial vehicles speeding routinely but rarely see one stopped. If it is safety pull over all the speeders..if its money write the muffler and speeding tickets without mercy.. I don't know what the typical truck cop's goal is..it really puzzles me.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree when it comes to the noise aspect. I think it's silly to live near a highway and complain about any noise, even if someone removed the mufflers from their truck and use the Jake brake. People have been doing what they can to get extra performance out of their vehicles for as long as there have been mass produced vehicles. One of the most common sources of additional horsepower is to reduce exhaust back pressure by letting the exhaust flow better. To think that people are ever going to stop doing that regardless of what law is passed is folly as far as I'm concerned.

As to why not pull over speeders or those with loud exhaust, the answer is simple. It's not really all that safe to do a full DOT workup on a truck that is pulled over on the shoulder of the road, so you'll probably just write one ticket for the exhaust, speed, whatever. It is much better to have the trucks go through a checkpoint where they can go over everything with a fine tooth comb and write 5 or 6 tickets to one truck. You get a lot more total tickets in less time with less effort and more safety by running a checkpoint than you do by stopping trucks haphazardly. That is why you see as many checkpoints as you do, and I believe it further supports my case that commercial vehicle enforcement is all about the money.

 

[lostcause]

Back to the original post, the reason why campers and large RV's aren't inside the radar is because many politicians own them, while not many drive a CMV. Same reason why Maine hasn't gone overboard with it's cellphone regulation yet.

i think there's a little more to it than that. let's take all model year 2000 vehicles on the road and get the average total mileage for the 10 year period. then take all the motorhomes and take the average total, and then all the trucks and get the average total. you will find that the motorhomes are the lowest, personal vehicles next, and trucks highest. motorhomes are "generally" considered as limited use vehicles, and surely there are exceptions where people put tons of miles on them touring the country, but there are tons of them that sit for 50 weeks a year, and also a lot that get driven across the country once, then parked for 6 months. if you don't believe me, check craigslist or any other sale venue and you'll see lots of low mileage ones out there.

certainly that doesn't mean that the operators (or the vehicles, for that matter) are any safer, but you have to go with the law of averages at some point. the laws here are the same for trailers too - i own a small 16 ft deck equipment trailer. i use it to haul a loader/backhoe for my own personal use. i do not need to have it inspected. if i used that same trailer and equipment to do commercial landscaping, i would need the trailer inspection. my usage is considered limited use, so in theory, it won't have the wear and tear that the daily used ones have. again, you can find all the exceptions to the rule, but you have to govern for the majority, and not the special case.

 

[Skyco]

I think we'll have to agree to disagree when it comes to the noise aspect. I think it's silly to live near a highway and complain about any noise, even if someone removed the mufflers from their truck and use the Jake brake. People have been doing what they can to get extra performance out of their vehicles for as long as there have been mass produced vehicles. One of the most common sources of additional horsepower is to reduce exhaust back pressure by letting the exhaust flow better. To think that people are ever going to stop doing that regardless of what law is passed is folly as far as I'm concerned.

As to why not pull over speeders or those with loud exhaust, the answer is simple. It's not really all that safe to do a full DOT workup on a truck that is pulled over on the shoulder of the road, so you'll probably just write one ticket for the exhaust, speed, whatever. It is much better to have the trucks go through a checkpoint where they can go over everything with a fine tooth comb and write 5 or 6 tickets to one truck. You get a lot more total tickets in less time with less effort and more safety by running a checkpoint than you do by stopping trucks haphazardly. That is why you see as many checkpoints as you do, and I believe it further supports my case that commercial vehicle enforcement is all about the money.

You have some technical misunderstandings about back pressure and its effect on performance, less is not always better especially when torque is the goal. Besides there are commercial truck mufflers designed especially to dampen engine brake noise without compromising performance.
http://www.donaldson.com/en/exhaust/support/datalibrary/000369.pdf
As for checkpoints for commercial vehicles- never see one down here except at the weigh stations, which the one I pass twice everyday isn't even open at least 75% of the time.

Your statement that it is silly to complain about quality of life laws being broken tells me either A- you aren't really a cop. or B- you are and I'm glad you are elsewhere and my local tax dollars don't pay for a cop not wanting to do his job.

 

[Lt CHEG]

Your statement that it is silly to complain about quality of life laws being broken tells me either A- you aren't really a cop. or B- you are and I'm glad you are elsewhere and my local tax dollars don't pay for a cop not wanting to do his job.

Actually, I did often enforce quality of life crimes whenever possible. In fact one day I ticketed and towed 16 cars for illegal window tint in addition to writing a whole crapload of other tickets while working on an enforcement detail The problem was that it was rarely possible with all the other stuff going on. I guess I'm just used to working an inner city.

And to me it's not about enforcing quality of life crimes or not, it's all about reasonable expectations. I don't think that it's reasonable to move into a house near a highway and expect quiet. I don't think that it's any different than moving near an airport and expecting quiet. The airport and the highway were there first, it is the responsibility of the property buyer to not buy the property if they want quiet. There will never be enough cops to enforce every law and protect every citizen from every ill.

 

[FlaDon]

As to why not pull over speeders or those with loud exhaust, the answer is simple. It's not really all that safe to do a full DOT workup on a truck that is pulled over on the shoulder of the road, so you'll probably just write one ticket for the exhaust, speed, whatever. It is much better to have the trucks go through a checkpoint where they can go over everything with a fine tooth comb and write 5 or 6 tickets to one truck. You get a lot more total tickets in less time with less effort and more safety by running a checkpoint than you do by stopping trucks haphazardly. That is why you see as many checkpoints as you do, and I believe it further supports my case that commercial vehicle enforcement is all about the money.

Would you please tell that to the local FDOT cop here. She makes plenty of money for the state with just traffic/inspection stops. Fairly safe for her though as she does it in a 30 MPH zone.

 

[FlaDon]

Actually, I did often enforce quality of life crimes whenever possible. In fact one day I ticketed and towed 16 cars for illegal window tint in addition to writing a whole crapload of other tickets while working on an enforcement detail The problem was that it was rarely possible with all the other stuff going on. I guess I'm just used to working an inner city.

And to me it's not about enforcing quality of life crimes or not, it's all about reasonable expectations. I don't think that it's reasonable to move into a house near a highway and expect quiet. I don't think that it's any different than moving near an airport and expecting quiet. The airport and the highway were there first, it is the responsibility of the property buyer to not buy the property if they want quiet. There will never be enough cops to enforce every law and protect every citizen from every ill.

Interstates have moved into areas where there were no main highways. Still going on too. I-485 west of Charlotte just opened last year as an example.

42 years ago I-77 cut thru 3 miles from the family's Ohio farm that has been in the family since 1941. A Federal highway was closer but never had as much noise as it was a narrow road truckers would rather have avoided.

 

[Skyco]

I don't think that it's reasonable to move into a house near a highway and expect quiet. I don't think that it's any different than moving near an airport and expecting quiet. The airport and the highway were there first, it is the responsibility of the property buyer to not buy the property if they want quiet. There will never be enough cops to enforce every law and protect every citizen from every ill.

Again you seem to be missing my point- I have no problem with regular normal legal traffic noise, I've stated that twice. I do, however, expect the authorities to enforce the laws prohibiting ILLEGAL activities.
I live in what was once a quiet off the beaten path neighborhood. Around the corner from me one family has moved in that is outrageously loud at all hours, loud late night basketball games, they have at least one very loud Harley, several pickups with altered loud exhaust systems, shoot off lots of fireworks late at night for no apparent reason, ie not the 4th or New Years...

I guess the rest of us should have no expectations of peace and quiet since we all bought homes in a neighborhoods where such things can happen. We all expect normal noise, the lawnmowers on the weekends etc but certainly not what this crowd is dishing out. Thankfully I'm far enough away I am only aware of it and not too annoyed, except for the late night fireworks, but if I lived next door or closer to them than I do I would certainly expect law enforcement to do its job if asked.


Getting back to the "all about money" thing- I still remain puzzled why the transport cops apparently don't write tickets at that NC Weigh Station for each and every violation that comes through, especially since their staff has indicated they can write no muffler tickets and would pay an inspection visit to any offenders I report to them. Oh, they check for red fuel there too, or at least are supposed to, according to the signs they have up....

 

[Lt CHEG]

Again you seem to be missing my point- I have no problem with regular normal legal traffic noise, I've stated that twice. I do, however, expect the authorities to enforce the laws prohibiting ILLEGAL activities.
I live in what was once a quiet off the beaten path neighborhood. Around the corner from me one family has moved in that is outrageously loud at all hours, loud late night basketball games, they have at least one very loud Harley, several pickups with altered loud exhaust systems, shoot off lots of fireworks late at night for no apparent reason, ie not the 4th or New Years...

I guess the rest of us should have no expectations of peace and quiet since we all bought homes in a neighborhoods where such things can happen. We all expect normal noise, the lawnmowers on the weekends etc but certainly not what this crowd is dishing out. Thankfully I'm far enough away I am only aware of it and not too annoyed, except for the late night fireworks, but if I lived next door or closer to them than I do I would certainly expect law enforcement to do its job if asked.


Getting back to the "all about money" thing- I still remain puzzled why the transport cops apparently don't write tickets at that NC Weigh Station for each and every violation that comes through, especially since their staff has indicated they can write no muffler tickets and would pay an inspection visit to any offenders I report to them. Oh, they check for red fuel there too, or at least are supposed to, according to the signs they have up....

Well, now you're talking about something different. You originally mentioned all the big rigs on the highway running with their modified exhaust and Jake brakes. You didn't mention fireworks late at night all the time and things of that nature in a normal residential neighborhood that's not near a highway. Under those circumstances, I wouldn't find some additional patrol to be out of line, but that's a totally different set of circumstances than you first described. When a new inconsiderate neighbor comes into a residential neighborhood and starts creating a problem, then some community oriented policing, combined with code enforcement and things of that nature are warranted. I guess I'm confused as to what over the road truck exhausts and Jake brakes have to do with noisy residential neighbors though. My guess is that in NC there is even a different section of law that references passenger cars with modified exhaust as opposed to big rigs with modified exhausts, I know that's the case in NY.

I can't explain why officers at weigh stations don't write tickets for other violations in NC. My best guess would be that there is probably only one officer and they can't take the time and back up traffic to write tickets on non weight related issues. It also still doesn't change my opinion and what I've personally seen and experienced.

In reference to the post about a family who had a highway put through their property without actually wanting it there, they have a legitimate gripe as far as I'm concerned. My issue is when people move near highway, airport, gun range, etc. that was there before they lived there or bought the property and then complain about the loud traffic, airplanes or shots, etc. And life being what it is I do believe that it is the responsibility of a prudent person to expect not only normal traffic noise but also the occasional loud, modified exhaust when they move near a major highway just because of the volume of traffic that is going to drive on it. I know I shake my head every time I drive by a new development that pops up right alongside a highway, and think to myself unless those people are all deaf then those houses aren't worth half what they paid no matter how cheap they were.

 

[Skyco]

I wasn't as clear as I should have been. The illegal truck noise occurs near my property in NC while I live in SC over 100 miles away. I do hear it at home in SC too but it is much farther away, the hills aren't near as big or as long, but at around 2 miles I still hear it, thats how loud it can be. Some of the worst I bet can be heard 5 or more miles away and that is just ridiculous.
My point, that I didn't make effectively, was that if if illegal truck noise is acceptable to you where do you draw the line? The neighborhood noise was an example of other noise that I wondered if you'd also find acceptable.
Personally I strive to lead my life so I don't inconvenience or annoy anyone, wish more people did. Some people seem to delight in bothering other people, usually uneccessarily.
I still feel the violators should be ticketed, I believe if the average owner operator got several $1000 tickets a week those mufflers would quickly go back on.