Float question

[JimMorrissey]

Has anyone else experienced this.......? I was trying to clear my drive today from packed ice and snow with the front loader. I attempted to use the float position and when moving forward with the blade tilted down, the front end of the machine came right off the pavement as I moved forward. It was if I was using the loader to lift the front end. So natually I had no control and thought it was just a strange one time event. I tried again and it did the same thing over and over. However, when the loader bucket cutting edge is tilted up it then floats like it's supposed to. It's absolutely maddening while trying to get something done. Basically my loader is currently useless for clearning snow. I've yet to get the blower installed and guess that'll be happening tomorrow.

 

[ronjhall]

That's about how my tractor reacts to float, when moving forward with cutting edge down. Float works best when backing up. My FEL blade does the same thing in float if it hits something solid.

 

[JimMorrissey]

If this is indeed the way these loaders operate, it's a poor design. I don't remember my 7 series loader or my BX loader working this way.

 

[Berniep]

It's the geometry of the loader arms. My BX23 does it in certain situations. The pivot point is above the ground contact points of the loader bucket and the rear tires. If you push on something it wants to scrunch/fold up and when its in float there is nothing to stop it.

 

[AntrimMan]

Yes, it is geometry, or more precisely the resultant.
I know when the edge is positioned like that it does a better job of breaking up the ice, sort of like bulldozing, but the manual warns against using the bucket in that position as a bulldozer.

I used to speak colorfully when my fronts were airbore because I couldn't steer but once I discovered the ability to separate the brake pedals and steer with the rears life became good again.
If the L39 had HST and cruise control you would sure be able to use it to great advantage at times like this. FWD is useless with the fronts up but strangely enough I don't seem to slip the rears unintentionally.
Also I notice that when scraping ice the machine can bounce the bucket edge quite a bit and shake the machine enough to knock the loader out of float. That is when I back off a little, sort of a reminder. I know this is not intentional by Kubota design but I thank them for it nevertheless. Could that be happening to you?

Because of the difficulty scraping up ice I am resolved to do a better job pushing the snow next time. I am also acutely aware of the ability to inflict damage if the gravel isn't frozen.

We both need blowers on, but I don't have one. I am accepting donations.
Once you put your's on it won't snow 'till May, so hurry up for the sake of the rest of us.

All the best,
Martin

 

[bowhunter3030]

Could you please explain to me what the "float position" is?

 

[MadReferee]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Could you please explain to me what the "float position" is? )</font>

Have you read your B3030 LA403 loader Operator's Manual? It's all right there.

Basically it's a detented position on the loader control valve that is beyond the normal down position. Sometimes you have to jam the lever rather hard to get it into the float position.

Now for how it works. When the valve spool is in the float position, high pressure fluid that would normally go to one side of the lift cylinders is redirected to the tank, along with the opposite side of the cylinders. This allows the cylinders to operte freely without any load (ie. they float), permitting the loader to move either up or down following the contour of the terrain.

Use the TBN Search function to get plenty of information on Float Position.

 

[JimMorrissey]

Bow,

Your machine has float as well. It's very handy in some situations....trying to scrape frozen snow off pavement is not one of them /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Next time you fire up the beast, drop your bucket close to ground with the bucket level and then push your joy stick all the forward until you feel it click and hold. That's the float position on the valve that controls the up and down movement of the loader. Most machines have one. Simply, it allows the loader arms to float, so there is no down pressure or up pressure on the lift cylinders.

 

[JimMorrissey]

This is where the angle of a real snowplow would come in handy on the QA, especially with a unit that has springs which allows the blade to collapse......Very frustrating none the less, but the physics of it all can't be bargained with.

 

[herringchoker]

Jim, you are right: it is the physics of it and you have to learn to adjust to it. I plowed snow for 18 winters with a Ford 4500 backhoe loader that was extremely light in the front end due to an oversized (15.5 ft.) backhoe on the rear. I could sometimes (in light snow) gain a bit of steering control by adjusting the bucket angle, but most of the time it was steer with the brakes or momentarily pull back on the FEL boom lever to drop the front wheels to the ground and get on course again. I find my retirement toy..er..tool, a B7800 with LA402, much easier to steer in similar situations. (But mostly I rely on my 3PH blower.)

 

[simonmeridew]

What's happening is that even though you are in "float" position in the up/down of the FEL, the cutting edge of the bucket is set to an excessively aggressive angle by tilting it too far down,and because you are in "float" for the up/down position the blade edge is actually digging in and pulling the bucket DOWN, being allowed to do so because it can "float".
In a rather gross example think of a safety razor blade set at too aggressive angle and will dig in and cut off your skin in pieces rather than glide across at whisker level.
Back to the FEL, the solution would be to lessen the angle of attack of the bucket by tilting up slightly. If the surface you are plowing off is very level, that is no ups and downs, no dips and rises, you can set and forget, but if there are ups and downs the angle needs to be adjusted as the surface changes. You can tell by the sound of the scraping when you need to bump the control angle back or forward.

simonmeridew

 

[rk246]

I was spreading gravel yesterday and experienced the same thing, I found it works great going in reverse, but trying to go forward would not work well with the bucket edge at a right angle to the ground. I then just started going in reverse instead and found that worked much better. With snow I guess that would be tougher to do. I will soon find out we just today started getting our first real snow for the winter....

 

[daTeacha]

Let me toss a couple of things into this mix. I use my FEL, which does not have float, to make my gravel drive on a hill passable with ice on it. I have a gear drive B7100 with factory loader, a 630 I believe.

I have made a set of 4 forks out of 1x2 channel steel. The forks are welded square to another piece of the same material, all of them with the open part of the channel facing up. The cross piece and each fork are drilled for bolts. The forks bolt to the heavy cutting edge of the loader, the cross piece is set back about 6" and the bolts anchor through another piece of the same stock on the bottom side, reinforcing the bolt holes. The whole thing looks like a 4 bar letter E with the forks sticking out about 10" from the front of the bucket. The leading edges are cut at an angle of about 30 degrees from the horizontal. I made this thing for ripping out multiflora, moving manure, picking up logs, etc.

When working the driveway, I set the loader at a downward angle to put the forks on the ice, but not vertical. Driving forward, the edges dig in and rip grooves in the ice along with the occasional good size chunk. Going backward, I lift the bucket, dump it completely, lower it enough to just about take the wheels up, and then back down the hill. The forks tear up the ice, and the front end comes up fairly often. I make several trips down the drive, using the steering brakes to guide my path. If it's really icy, I also make some cuts across the drive.

Then I use the rear blade to more or less smooth things over and get the ruts and big chunks out. It also brings the stuff from the sides, which is full of gravel, back into the main traffic way. The end result is a very nice gravel/ice chunk layer over the roughened up frozen gravel drive. It's easy to navigate the hill and curves for all comers.

If you have a tooth bar, I think it will work like my rooter forks, but use the weight of the front end to put some pressure on the points. Don't use float.

Of course, if your driveway is paved, this whole thing is not a good idea unless you want your driveway all scratched up. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif