First time tractor buyer

[todd_arganti]

I have a small 7 acre track that consists of 3 acres of open yard mowing and 4 acres of choke cherry and standing timber that has approx. 150 small pines mixed in that someone once planted. I need to mow my yard and want to clear the scrub from around the pines and give them a chance to grow. Additionally, I have dirt to move and I take care of a five acre field that I plant for the deer and turkey. Currently I use borrowed or rented stuff and I am ready to make the investment on my own equipment. I have been looking at the Kioti CK20 and the Farmtrac 270dtc both 4wd with FEL and mowers. They are both around 16k with the Kioti being about 1500 more. Any suggestions on what I should be watching out for?

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Depending on your budget you will find lots of willing volunteers to help you spend every cent you have.

For mowing & FEL work I strongly prefer a hydrostatic transmission. The tasks will get done faster with a hydro. I know the Kioti has a HST option. Reports on this forum say the Kioti is a really nice tractor, no dealer in my area so I don't know that. In that same size class you might also want to look at the Kubota 7500 and the New Holland TC18 or TC24. Deere has the 4110 (I think that is about a 20hp). All of the machines I mentioned are available with a Hydro transmission.

The curved loader arms on the TC18 or TC 24 and the Kioti CK20 are very nice, provide better visibility for your work than the straight arm loaders. I have a curved arm loader on my TC24 and traditional loader on my Kubota B2910, from experience I can tell you the curved arms, combined with the sloping hood of the NH makes for a MUCH better view of the loader bucket and faster loader work.

The NH TC tractors have a lot of little features that raise the price, but might be worth it to you? Kubota also has a deluxe unit, the B2410 which is similar to the TC24 in features, both are 24hp units.

 

[Inspector507]

NH now longer offers a TC18, they do offer the TC21DA and the TC24DA though /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
The sub-compact line does have the TZ18DA and a TZ24DA

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Oops, I thought the TC21 got dropped and they kept the TC18. The 21 would be a better comparison to the Kioti CK20.

I didn't think a Sub-CUT like the TZ series would be appropriate given some of the tasks mentioned in the initial posting. That was why I stayed away from them as well as the BX series. I also stayed away from the Chinese tractors because of their lack of HST transmission and because the 2 primary jobs (mowing and FEL work) are much better done with hydro. Further, the Chinese tractors typically come with R1 tires and switching over to R4 or Turf tires adds to their price pretty dramatically and mowing with Ag tires is a good way to make the wife angry! I also only recommended tractors that come standard with 4wd because the tractor will be used for loader work. Not sure about the Farmtrac units being 4wd or not, I know some are 2wd, don't know about the model 270?

 

[GaryS]

I just bought 8 acres and spent the last six weeks shopping various tractors. Most of my land is cleared and I want to continue rough cutting. I wanted a tractor that could handle a 5' brush hog and had a decent FEL. I looked at Deere, New Holland, Kubota, and Massey Ferguson. After waaay too much analysis, I decided on the Massey 1428v hyrdo. After looking for so long I came to the conclusion that for my weekend warrior workload, any of the tractors would work for me. I suspect the same is true for you.

Here's the pricing I got during my tractor shopping:

NH TC30 & 7308fel: 16,400 (the tc29d was 2k more)
Deere 4210 & 420 fel: 17,500
Kubota 7800hst & la402 fel: 15,500
Kubota 3130hst & la513 fel: 18,300
Massey 1428v & 1464 fel: 15,000

I drove'em all, narrowed the choice to the 7800 and the 1428v, and decided on the 1428v for purely subjective reasons. I bought it last week and should be delivered this week.

I didn't price Kioti because the dealer was to far away and I didn't look at Mahindra because I was already in serious tractor overload!

Good luck and enjoy the shopping.

 

[KiotiJohn]

Todd, you say both tractors are around $16K, but what are you getting with them? The CK20 with an FEL should be somewhere between 12,5K and 13,2K I would think. I bought all of my equipment, FEL, BH, and boxblade for $16,681 + tax.
As I only took a cursory look at the Farmtracs, Landtracs etc, I can't really comment on them. They seemed like very good tractors, but the pricing here was higher. I would recommend though that you step up to the LK3054XS with mechanical shuttle as I believe it will carry that 5' mower better than the CK20. Yes, the CK will carry it, but you have a lot of acres to mow and that's a heavier mower. Some of the other work you'll do will be aided by the extra HP as well. Should be able to get the 3054 with FEL in the neighborhood of $15K. I have to disagree with Bob, the HST to me, and I have one, is no better for mowing than anything else. The one thing I feel it is NOT good for is plowing. The 3054 would be better for your feed plots. John

 

[Bob_Skurka]

KiotiJohn . . . we will have to agree to disagree about the HST transmission and its use for mowing. However, suggest that our disagreement may be based on what we mow. Mowing around landscaping, or around buildings, or wherever there is no real chance to make straight runs with the tractor is easier and slightly faster with an HST. Field mowing is really no big deal with either a HST or a gear machine.

And you and I are in total agreement about using a HST machine for plowing, it is simply not designed for that type of work, that is a gear tractor job. But for the food plots I would suggest one of those ATV type cultivators/planter all-in-one units they don't require a lot of HP and are well suited for small tractors. Small CUTs really are not well suited to traditional plowing.

 

[frank_f15]

GET THE ONE THAT FEELS BEST TO YOU. and also remember to get the tractor that is best for most of your uses.

 

[Inspector507]

This is only my personal opinion, but the HST has been great for my mowing and the FEL work. The gear tractor I had before was good, but this is one definate improvement. The gear tractor served it's immediate purpose and now I have what I want. I highly doubt if I'd ever look at a gear tractor again, but that's strictly for my needs and no one else's.

Edit begins here.....
The TC21DA would probably come in at around the same $16K maybe a bit more.

 

[Inspector507]

I'm not familiar with the Farmtrac 270 series. What HP is that?
Make sure you're comparing apples to apples.
Sorry, I just found the HP on the Farmtrac. You're comparing a 27HP unit to a 20HP unit.

 

[KiotiJohn]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( we will have to agree to disagree about the HST transmission and its use for mowing. )</font> You're right Bob, I don't do finish mowing with my tractor, just field work. However, I have used both gear and HST for that, and I don't really find that much difference. At times I have found that gear is better when I hit softer terrain because I can go a little faster than low range will offer me in HST. On good, hard dirt surfaces, I can use high range in a field with HST, but not on softer ground. That's a difference that I've noticed, but it's not a big deal. I can use either pretty much equally well. John

 

[todd_arganti]

I know I am tired and its because I'm a father!!!

However, I still have work to get done. The Farmtrac is a 27hp 4wd and with a loader is 13995. I was quoting the price with a mower also. The Kioti ck20 is 20hp 4wd hst for around the same price. Does anyone feel that the extra hp and size is worth it. I have trouble justifying a smaller tractor for the same or a bit more money in the Kioti or some of the big three.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Todd, it boils down to quality and features. Somebody will always make something cheaper by cutting features, cutting design, etc. It is up to you to decide if you want the added control quality and features. Personally I buy the deluxe versions of tractors because to me the little things like extendable lower links actually make hooking up implememts MUCH easier, and other features make the tractor more comfortable, which tanslates into safer operation in the long run.

Also when you look at finish mowers, compare them apples to apples. The prices of finish mowers range from under $1000 to over $2000 for 60" finish mowers. And I can tell you from experience, you get what you pay for. A good quality (not necessarily the best) finish mower will easily last 20 years. I just traded in my 11 year old Befco 60" RFM and it will probably be resold for $600 or $700 after a new set of blades are installed and some minor maintainence is performed. The only reason I got rid of it was to switch to a Mid-Mount Mower. On the other hand, I GAVE AWAY an old Howse mower to a guy and the fact that he actually took it off my property saved me effort so I got the better part of that deal. I'm sure he hates me by now!

So check the overall quality of ALL the aspects of what you are buying.

 

[Skitch]

Amen to "you get what you pay for." Always keep in mind that price does not equal cost. How soon will you have to replace the equipment, how much time maintaining it, how much down time you have, and how easy parts are to obtain are all factors to consider. I know that there are exceptions to every rule, and I'm sure that there are examples out here to disprove this one, but in my case, it was an easy sell for my wife to go with a pricier RFM when she considered how long we have had our current Woods mower.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Skitch . . . When the dealer picked up my Befco unit I pulled out the original brochure & operators manual and saw that there was a handwritten note on the operators manual that reads: $1850.00 I am presuming that was what I paid for it 11 years ago. I can tell you I got my money's worth out of that deck, and I can tell you that whoever buys it from the dealer is getting a great deck that is going to last for another 10 or 11 years with reasonable care.

I think a lot of what you wrote is why I pick the deluxe versions of tractors and also because I value my time. How much is a set of extendable lower links worth? Well I look at it that it takes about 30 seconds to a minute to hook up an implement if you have extendable lower links. Further, you rarely bust a knuckle, bloody a finger or bruise a thumb doing it. Compare that to fixed lower links and you can pound and beat on a heavy implement trying to line it up for 3, 5 or even 10 minutes in the heat or the middle of a snowstorm and end up bloody and bruised. So is it worth a few hundered bucks? I think so when you figure that I tend to keep my tractors for a decade or more. But I do understand that some people consider $$$ to be more important than time, and for them I find no fault. They make their trade offs to get the machine they need and that is fine too. I tend to look at the cost over the life of the unit and quite often a worthwhile upgrade costs about a penny or two each day you own it.

 

[To20Chris]

It's always a judgement call - I'll have an upper limit of what I can (or will) spend. Within that, I'm looking for capability to do the most jobs, not always ways to make the jobs easier to do, but there's a big grey area of course. For me, the biggest issue is that of having the equipment to do the job, having something to make the kob easier, more pleasant, or even faster is secondary. Where to draw that line can be a tough call sometimes. I'd like a digital torque wrench, but my old click-stop one works fine. Truth be told the cheap old beam wrench I had will set torque just as well if used properly. Extendable lower links would be in the "nice to have, but wouldn't spend much for" catagory for me, because I'll still get the job done, and in the scope of the whole job it won't make much difference. With a CUT, it's a whole bunch of those types of decisions wrapped up in one purchace, which is why it can be so hard to decide, I guess. Unit A is missing something that unit B has, but then its got some other nice feature, etc. And then often the things you thought would be a big deal turn out not to be, but you find that something that seemed unimportant is really key. For example, I knew separate brakes could be helpful, but I didn't realize how much I would use them. Maybe if I had extendable lower links I would find them to be an essential! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Woodbeef]

I figure it all comes down to what you can live with,and then what you can't live with out.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Woodbeef, I tend to agree that it boils down to what you can live with, but often the first time tractor buyer doesn't know how one feature might help a lot while another is simply pointless. I know I had no clue when I first started playing with tractors and I am still learning new things about them all the time.

I swap implements a lot, so for me having the extendable lower links on the B2910 and the Pat's Easy Change on the TC24 are real time savers. On the other hand, "cruise control" is an exercise in futility on my lot because even with nearly 12 acres, I don't have any straight runs long enough to use it. Hydro is a must have for my hills, and also for mowing becuase I am constantly weaving between obsticales and backing up, and also for FEL work, both tasks are still much faster with a hydrostatic tranny. I mow in the evening so a HD alternator is a nice feature that allows me to put up extra lights. A mid-PTO will be used for the first time because I am switching to a MMM deck, it is standard on my tractors but optional or not even offered on others. The curved loader arms of the 12LA loader on the NH are such a big advantage in vision, that even with the smaller bucket and lower capacity than the B2910 has, I find I am using the smaller NH to do loader work more often than I am using the B2910. Having the features allows me to alter my uses as my needs change, without having to trade in my machines.

So for someone buying their first tractor, I think it is a service to point out some of the reasons one tractor might cost more than another because $1000 more spent today, could save many times that in the future and equals less than 15-cents a day over the 20 year life of the tractor. That 15 cents a day does not include time savings that come with some of those features. But if you can save 15 minutes a week in your mowing chores by using a HST transmission and you mow 36 weeks a year, that equals 9 hours a year. If your time is worth $20/hour, that is a savings of $180 per year, or $3600 in savings over the life of the HST tractor versus a gear tractor and that is just the savings you get mowing the lawn.