First-time Buyer Questions!!

mwood · Feb 13, 2004

I've been lurking on this forum for a year or so now and am finally settling down on the idea of buying a tractor. Since there is so much good information out here, I wanted to run my thoughts by all you! I really like Green, and I have been well served by their garden tractors in the past so I would like to stay Green if they can meet my needs for a CUT at a decent price.

Here is my dilemma. Any suggestions are welcome!

Current uses:
- ~4 acres finish mowing
- 5+ acres rough cutting (pasture maintenance, etc)
- Moderate Landscaping (mainly moving topsoil, gravel, etc)
- Clearing snow off 100+ yards of driveway with a medium sized hill

My expected future uses:
- Post hole digging for re-fencing the pasture
- Clearing a spot for a pole barn / garage
- Tilling a vegetable garden and some fruit garden preparations

A few notes:
- I have some very muddy areas of my pasture which I will need access to with the tractor.
- I would like to be able to clear snow from some of the lanes through my pasture without having to worry about getting stuck.

I do not ever think I can justify a backhoe since I would probably save money just renting one the couple of times I'll need it.

Having said all this, I was seriously looking at the JD2210 with a MMM and FEL and Brushhog. From what users have said, this is a very good mowing machine, and the loader capacity seems adequate. However, I am a little worried about clearing snow with such a light machine. Also, (someone correct me if I'm wrong) I've heard that the front mount snow blower is not much wider than the machine.

So... now that this has turned into an essay, here are my questions:

1. How limited is this limited CAT 1 hitch? Would it be a problem for a post hole digger, rear mount snow blower, etc?

2. Tires: Some say turf, some say R4's. Any suggestions so I don't get stuck in the mud or slide in the snow?

3. How well with the JD2210 handle a brush cutter?

4. Any ballpark guesses at what the 2210, FEL, MMM and brush cutter will cost? (I guess I should ask, anyone in Upstate NY care to respond as to what they paid for something similar?)

4. I really want to keep this purchase as reasonably priced as possible. Are there any suggestions to other machines that will suit my purposes better?

Thanks to all who have ideas!

KubotaSteve · Feb 13, 2004

I don't really know that much about the green machines, but I would say the 2210 is too small for you. I think the limited ground clearance would be a problem.
Also one other thing that is going to be a tough choice is the tires. I like the R-4's as compromise between turfs and ags, but the R-4's load up with mud and don't clean themselves that well.
As far as machine that is reasonably priced, I think the 7800 is a fine machine. You could get a 72" mid mount mower and a 60" bush hog. The FEL is 54" wide and lifts around 900 pounds. I prefer to go a little bigger that way I won't abuse the machine as bad /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

cowboydoc · Feb 13, 2004

The 2210 will and won't work for you. I think you are going to have a tough time clearing any ground with the 2210 for a building pad. But if that is a one time thing bring someone in to do that. Also for digging post holes I think you are going to be a little underpowered. Check with the deere dealer on post hold digger compatability.

As far as mowing and clearing snow you will be fine. They make some nice tillers that will work just fine on that unit. They also have some brush cutters that are matched for that unit and will work fine as well.

As far as price deere is as reasonable priced as any of the well known names. You can go with lesser known names but how important is reliability, parts network, knowledgeable dealers, etc. To find out all the attachments and prices go to www.johndeere.com. Here you will find all the prices and all the equipment available for that unit.

Took a quick look at the website and looks like everything is in 4' to match up to the 2210. The LX4 is the brush cutter, the snowblower is 47", the rototiller is 50", a front blade is 54", and the mid mount mower is 54". No post hole diggers mentioned there so I'm not sure on that. Call any deere dealer though and they will be able to tell you.

rockyridgefarm · Feb 13, 2004

As to price. Go to Deere's site and build one. You will get MSRP. Take off 15% to get a pretty good idea. Some dealers will be higher, some lower. You can also look up dealers and solicit bids.

The 2210 is a nice machine. I may oversimplify, but it is a fantastic mower that can handle light uses for dirt work, etc. (there are plenty of 4710 owners who will say the same about my 4310.) You already alluded to the possibility that it might be a little undersized for some of your needs. I am not saying that it is, and if you use it right, it will do a good job.

But I would encourage you to look at small chassis 4x10s like the 4110 and 4115. Even the 4210. It doesn't cost to look. And you will find a couple of things that might help you. Ground clearance, stronger, and better handling of post hole digger, etc. One other small issue is that the Hp on the subcompacts isn't exactly apples to apples comparison to the compacts. They are a little skewed by stating it at a different rpm. So it might sound as if you are getting more engine than you really are with the subCUT. That seems to be universal among the brands, which is kinda lame. IMHO

Of course, they cost a little more, but if you are considering Deere's financing, it is a lot cheaper to do up front than to trade up.

If you decide that you are satisfied with the 2210, you will have made a good choice, I am sure.

mwood · Feb 13, 2004

Thanks to all who have posted thus far! Very good information. I get the idea that I might want something bigger, but not breaking the bank big...

The next option is the 790. While this is really the size tractor I want, I had a few reservations about it. Seeing that it is probably better suited for what I want, I'll post these questions here.

1. What exactly is the Collar Shift? I know it's a gear tranny, but is it shift on the fly, or do you have to stop? I really don't mind the gears.

2. The 419 Loader for the 790 seems to have the same specs as the 210 loader for the 2210. Is this really true?

3. According to the Deere web site, I can't get the 790 with R4's and still use the 60 inch mid mount mower. Since the mower is a must have, am I really stuck with Turf tires? (Then again, I hear they do well in snow... but don't they puncture easier while brush hogging?)

4. Say I go from a 2210 (Aprox $12,700) to a 790 (Aprox $14,700). I gain 4 HP, loose 2 inches on the MMM and gain no loader capacity. Is it really worth the $2,000 for ground clearance and a full CAT 1 hitch? (I'm leaning toward yes, but I do need to justify the money somehow... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif)

Thanks again! You all are great!

KubotaSteve · Feb 13, 2004

Have you thought about looking at other colors besides green?
Blue or Orange might have the right combination of features that you are looking for. I'm not familiar with your location in New York, but there is a Kubota dealer on this board from New York. His user name is Art. You might want to check in with him.

BillyP · Feb 13, 2004

I can answer about the collar shift. It is an unsynchronized tranny. The Owner's Manual says you need to stop before your shift to any other gear. Although the OM says you need to, you can shift into another forward gear, without stopping. I wouldn't recommend it though. I had that tranny in a JD 4600 but moved to the hydro in a 4610.

mwood · Feb 13, 2004

I'm really not set on green. However, I really don't know what Kubota or New Holland have to compete with the 790. I know the Kubota has a very similar tractor to the JD 2210, but I guess I just don't have enough info on the other brands...

I like the looks of the JD 790 better than the new styling of the other JD machines. But as the common phrase goes, "Don't judge a book by the cover"..

cowboydoc · Feb 13, 2004

With all of the mowing that you do I think a hydro would be better in your case. I love a gear tractor but for mowing I really like my 455. For your mud and snow removal I would go with R4's. For mowing turfs are great but for anything else they aren't very good.

KubotaSteve · Feb 13, 2004

What HP range are you looking at? Just as a starting point for comparison, I have a Kubota B-7800 (30 HP) with a 60"MMM (72" is available) with 54" FEL and loaded R-4 tires. This ran me about $16,900. It can handle a 60" bush hog pretty easily and can use 12 inch auger on a phd. I also added a 60" boxblade for removing top soil. This tractor may seem a little large at first for mowing, but it pays off when moving snow dirt or when it comes to mud and ground clearance.
Some of the other Kubotas are the B-7510 (21 HP ??) and the B-7610 (24HP??).

Golfgar4 · Feb 13, 2004

Welcome to TBN! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

You certainly came to the right place to get some guidance.

You might check out the NH TC30. You can get this tractor in HST or gear transmissions, and I think the lift specifications on the 3 pt are similar to the 790. I believe you could also get a mid pto on it if you wanted.

There are some other equally capable machines out there that you should check out. Since it seems that you are not locked in to one color, spend some time getting information and check out the other guys. You'll acquire a wealth of information as you test out each machine. And at the same time, you'll be getting a feel for the different dealers. A quality, dependable dealer is every bit as important (or in some cases even more important) than the cost of the tractor.

Good luck on your search. Have fun and keep us posted. We wouldn't mind if you took along a digital camera and took pictures too! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

JDGREEN4ME · Feb 13, 2004

I would not want a 2210 if my situation was the same as yours. If you want green I would consider a 4310. I also like the Kubota B7800 and B2910. I have heard good things about the Kiotis and New Hollands also. Despite my brand obvious username I would consider all options (I did) and see what you are the most comfortable with. I know I sure had fun getting out and looking at all the different brands. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Bob_In_MN · Feb 13, 2004

JDGREEN,

While I think the 2210 is too small for his uses, don't you think that your 4115 would handle the items he lists?

My concern with the 4310 is that it would be great for clearing that land for the polebarn and nice for bush hogging, but if he ends up spending most of his time finish mowing and doing what he termed "light" landscaping, he may have too much tractor for the bulk of his work.

In reality, he will clear the land for the pole barn 1 time and most likely he will bush hog less often than he finish mows.

I know everyone says buy as big as you can and while I agree to a certain degree, you can have too much tractor in certain situations.

I would have loved a 4310 for relocating my driveway, but my 4010 did it and now I use it to mow lawn, plow snow, maintain my driveway and perform various projects with the FEL.

I justified my purchase as the one tractor that could do everything I wanted. This means that I have a tractor that's too big for some things, too small for others and just right for the jobs I spend the most time doing.

By the way--even though I've had a lot of luck with JD, I would also look at other colors.

Good Luck

Bob

WiJC · Feb 13, 2004

my situation wasnt too different from you. after looking over the 2210, i decided i wanted more clearance etc and a little bigger machine. i first looked at the 4115. i was impressed with everything except the price.

i then went and checked out the kubota b7610. it is an inch here and there smaller than the 4115, but pretty comparable. it came in $2500 less than the 4115 deere.

whala! ill have a orange tractor in my garage next week /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

rockyridgefarm · Feb 13, 2004

then went and checked out the kubota b7610. it is an inch here and there smaller than the 4115, but pretty comparable. it came in $2500 less than the 4115 deere. 

Great point! Find out what fits, find a good dealer. But don't assume everything is cheaper than Deere. In some areas, the Kubota would be way higher. And some dealers are bad about highballing you. I think its safe to say you should decide what you think will work and get a few bids. There are several really good brands out there, many with great dealer support.

cowboydoc · Feb 13, 2004

But don't assume everything is cheaper than Deere

You're exactly right. I think one of the problems is that deere is the only one that I know that publishes all of their prices. When you talk to other dealers they may or may not give you their retail prices. You might be already getting 20 or 30% off of retail. Well then someone takes that to the deere site and compares a 20% off retail price with deere's full retail price and thinks green paint is awful expensive. When in reality if compared apples to apples they're pretty close.

del · Feb 13, 2004

For my similar uses the 4210 is working out great. I have
a bigger TLB and all of the uses you have suggested the
4210 would accomplish. 5 foot cutter etc.

Shorter so it is not a bulky machine but much heavier than
a 4115 so with a load in the bucket it is more stable (safer).

Rides extremely nice on pasture (more weight) and the
operator platform and seat are terrific for long hours.

Unless you have A LOT of time on your hands the 2210 would
be too small. (IMHO)

General rule of thumb is that you can't go wrong getting a
bigger tractor.

Too a point, if it won't go where you want it to go...

Also the bigger the tractor the more diesel it is going
to suck.

You get jobs done quicker but you burn more diesel.

I have yet to figure out with my bigger Kubota if the much
increased fuel use over my older Ford is because it's a big
wasteful engine (1650 vs 1400 cc) or I am doing so much
more work with it... /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Even with the much-praised-by-JD I-match or it's "quick-hitch"
cousins on the market, there are a lot of implements that
don't work with them for a number of reasons, tail wheel type,
using a tilt cylinder, fit problems. And this means the old
3pt hookup. I should have got the telescoping ends and
didn't. With the smaller tractor this can make it more difficult
to get implements on it. Been there done that with a BX.

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gifDE L/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

JDGREEN4ME · Feb 13, 2004

The 4115 would probably be fine. If I was going to use the PTO that much I just think I would want more than the 20 PTO HP that I have. Good point however that you can have a tractor too big for most of the work you will do. Of course there are days I wish I had a 110 TLB /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

mwood · Feb 13, 2004

In looking over some more literature, and calling a couple of dealers, I've nocited that there is a marked price increase for a hydro tranny. Is it really worth the money? I've used gears on all my garden tractors and never really thought much about it! It just seems that I can get a lot more HP if i'm willing to go with gears.

Again, just a question!

Thanks for all this great discussion. I'm going to go look at the following:
790
4115
4210

(I think i've ruled out the 2210 based on size and the 4110 based on PTO HP)

I'll also probably look at both a 4310 and 4410 if they have them... not that I can really afford them, but it never hurts to look! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Thanks again!

Golfgar4 · Feb 13, 2004

Since you've asked the question, here's one of MANY links that discuss that question. Hydrostat versus Gears??

Do a search and you'll find a whole lot more.

In my mind, the bottom line is buy what is right for you. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif