First issue with 1430, weak drive power.

[MossRoad]

Hi all, so i’ve got my first issue with my 1430. Just some background, I bought the last diesel 1430 that was the showroom floor model. Tractor shows 17 hours, but the hour meter was unplugged when it arrived, so it could definitely have some more hours than that. It’s still on its original oil and filter.

A couple days ago the tractor did not want to start in upper 20° weather after the first couple tries. Seemed like a weak battery as the starter solenoid was clicking but the motor wasn’t turning over. About the fifth try the motor turned over and the tractor started reasonably well as it typically does in these temps. Upon driving I immediately noticed a problem as the drive power was very weak. It would hardly react to any initial input of the treddle pedal in forward or reverse. It seemed to get better as the tractor warmed (oil perhaps) up, but still did not have the instant torque that I was used to upon initial input of the pedal.

Yesterday iwe had temps in the teens and 20 most of the day. Again tractor wouldn’t start in the same fashion for most of the day. At the end of the day when it finally got to about 32° it started. Again the drive power was severely compromised. It would take about 3 of 4 seconds of any type of input pedal input to get the tractor to move at all in reverse. I was just moving it around so didn’t get a chance to see how it did once warmed up.

I’m assuming my first step will be to change the oil/filter. I believe they call for changing the oil at 50 hours. What type and weight oil do most people use recommend? Up here in the NC mountains it can get into the teens or lower and still have some 90° summer days.

Aside from the oil/filter anything else I should be checking out? I assume the drive system is 100% a hydraulic circuit and the battery weakness should not have any effect on it? It’s weird that the issue started as soon as the battery started struggling, I guess it’s possible that the battery/start issue can be a byproduct of an motor/pump issue and/or compromised oil though.

I didn't see if you answered this question or not yet, so forgive me if you already have.

Once you get it started, how long do you let it warm up before trying to move it?

 

[ponytug]

FWIW: I highly recommend the Deutz preheaters that @SpringHollow put me on to. For my 1445, they make a big difference in how fast the engine catches close to freezing.

But yes, with cold oil these tractors are going to be sluggish in all dimensions.

All the best,

Peter

 

[tommott77]

Your 1430 is behaving normally. The one I bought 2012 has behaved that way in the cold since I got it. The older one I had was more responsive. It had a different pump with bigger orifices so cold oil could flow through easier.
Sometimes I put a portable jump box on the battery and use a squirt of starting fluid. ( starting fluid is not a recommendation, just what I do).

Thanks for all the responses. I think you’re correct. It was much warmer today pushing close to 50°. Started the tractor, let it warm up a good 15 minutes, and it ran/drove pretty much as normal. Pretty sure that’s just the nature of the beast at this point.

I’ll still plan on changing oil/filter next time i’m up at the property with the tractor. The sticker on the oil tank says 10-40 or 15-40 motor oil. I’ll go with the 10-40 to see if that may improve the warm up performance of the oil.

Any other recommendations on what type of oil to use? Should I be staying away from synthetic? With the lack of moving parts involved is this an instance of cheaper oil is just as good as anything? Sorry, never ran motor oil on tractor hydraulics before.

 

[MossRoad]

I wouldn't change the entire hydraulic oil if it's that new with that few hours. I'm still running the same hydraulic oil that came with my PT425 20 years ago. Every 50 hours (about once per year) I change the hydraulic filter, add a quart of makeup oil (I've been adding Mobile1 xW40, what ever the 40W is) and bleed the system per procedure before running. It's still clear and clean. Never had an analysis done on it. I have around a thousand hours on the machine.

Anytime it's under 40ish degrees, I start the machine and let it run at about 1/3 throttle for around 10 minutes, then cycle the FEL full up and down a couple times, curl/dump the bucket a few times, and off I go.

 

[ponytug]

The difference in viscosity between 5W, 10W, and 15W oil when cold is pretty minimal, as in in maybe one and a half times going from 5W to 15W. Having switched all my oil, I can tell you it made no obvious difference. My personal $0.02 is that if you plan to use it cold a lot, I would put on a Wolverine heater on the hydraulic tank. (Covered at length on other threads here...) Or just do as @MossRoad does and let it warm up for fifteen minutes.

All the best,

Peter

 

[joshlee]

No no no, there is nothing wrong with your 1430 acting slow when it is that cold out. Let it warm up for at least 10 min so the hydraulic oil can warm up. Mine does the same thing.

 

[marrt]

When the oil is that cold, the pump can cavitate (create air bubbles) which will cause a lot of problems if done repeatedly. As others have said, let the tractor warm up for several minutes or use a tank heater. And by several minutes, I mean SEVERAL. Feel the hydro tank with your hand. If it's "not cold," you're good to go. Most Kubota tractors require a minimum of 5 minutes warm up regardless of the temps (I doubt most people are that patient).

As to the hydro oil, I did a detailed analysis once and concluded the best weight was 0W-40. Power Trac may not recommend this oil because it's hard to find historically. As Peter mentioned, oil viscosity is most significant when the oil is cold. You absolutely DON"T want the pump to cavitate from cold oil or a lose hydraulic filter (or any other air leak on the suction side). I asked PT once how tight the filter should be and they basically said "as tight as you can get it." With most normal filter wrenches, I doubt you can get it too tight.

 

[woodlandfarms]

Oil filters as tight as you can get it by hand. Do not use a wrench to tighten. All gasketed filters should be 3/4 turn after gasket contact. If you are leaking you may have another issue. Too high pressure or a warped oil pump plate.

 

[SpringHollow]

I have always had to tighten the filter to extreme tightness (sometimes denting the can) in order to stop air entrainment. I would be thrilled to be able to only hand tighten. Tried both styles of gasket but that did not seem to make a difference. I always oil the gaskets before installing.

 

[ponytug]

I have always had to tighten the filter to extreme tightness (sometimes denting the can) in order to stop air entrainment. I would be thrilled to be able to only hand tighten. Tried both styles of gasket but that did not seem to make a difference. I always oil the gaskets before installing.

I have had similar experiences to you and @marrt. Without mechanically tightening the filter on an oiled gasket, I get air bleeding in, and yes, I have tried both kinds of gaskets as well. Yes, I have also dented a couple of filters. These days, I try to ensure that the strap is right at the upper edge of the filter to reduce denting. I find fitting new gaskets to be a bit of a bear as well as it always seems that the gasket is too large a diameter, but, with perseverance, it goes in eventually.

Terry gave me the same advice to get it on as tight as I could when I had a persistent air leak at my first filter change. But, hey, @woodlandfarms if it works for you, "good on you" as the Aussies say. You must have a heck of hand grip.

All the best,

Peter