first 50hr,2310

[pathman]

Well boys, I'm coming up on the firs 50hr on my 2310, so far this machine has impressed me and I still can't get over some of the boulders I was abl to dig out and move around. I have been reading about oils on the site and am still on the fence on what oils I will use at my firs 50, I would like to go to synthetic in the hyd and engine, Dealer saysthat warrenty will be void if there is a problem. (surprise surprise) he doesn't even carry any synthetis oils to replacethe permatran, The owners manual only mentions permatran and does not give any MIL specs, Does anyone out there have some info. I know some of you are running Mobil syn in the tarnsmistion but I can't find it here in Quebec. any equivilants?

 

[ray66v]

The dealer is full of it on the warranty. The manual saysermatran 3 or equivalent. IT DOES NOT SAY PERMATRAN 3 ONLY. It also does not say mineral oil only. If the oil you use, meets the equivalent specs for Permatran, you have complied with the warranty requirement, period.

Contact Amsoil and they will have an engineer explain the specs to you. ATH synthetic, (what a lot of us use), meets the requirements for Permatran 3 and then some. Amsoil also guarantees that you will be covered under your warranty. So, don't buy the dealers bull.

Don't forget the oil in the front axle, and too clean the hyd. oil screen behind the left wheel.

 

[MasseyBC]

Stick with Permatran until your warranty period is up. My 2005 2310 had a defective rear end that failed after 200 hrs. Cost to rebuild was over $3000.00 Cdn. First thing the dealer asked was what fluid I had been using. I asked why and the dealer told me it could effect the warranty claim. It just isn't worth the trouble or what could be alot of money to prove your case.

 

[ray66v]

For those who are considering "sticking" with Permatran:

While Permatran is a good product, remember, if you stick to Permatran you will also have to stick to the 20-30+ minute warm up schedule in your owners manual for cold weather operation.

Each time you fire it up, and run all that cold, heavy, unable to lubricate well quite yet, Permatran oil through the pump, for 30 minutes warming it up, its probably not hurting it that much. Or the day when you CAN'T wait the 30 minutes, because you have to go to work. So you only give it 5 minutes and then run the heck out of it plowing the drive, probably won't hurt the trans. or shorten its life that much.

This is the exact reason synthetic oils were developed. because mineral oils thicken and don't lubricate well in cold weather.

Its your investment, you have to make the call.

 

[tx2310]

So let me see here, if I use your product and go out on a -30 degree F morning and fire up my tractor and start plowing snow with no warm up. The transaxle fails under the warranty period. What do you have to show that if I did not follow the printed operational manual for warm up, I will not void my warranty. I am a strong supporter of synthetic oil, but lets get real.

Doug

 

[DEWFPO]

At 50 hrs I wanted to switch to all synthetics as well since I do blow snow in very cold temps. The only synthetics I found that met or exceeded the MF specifications were Amsoil products. I had never used Amsoil before but their products have great reputations so I used their HDD 5W30 Heavy Duty Diesel Engine Oil in the engine and their ATH Synthetic Tractor Hydraulic/Transmission Oil in the Hydro unit. I've been running them since last September and have been very happy.

DEWFPO

 

[MasseyBC]

All I am trying to say, is to be careful what fluids you use WHILE UNDER WARRANTY. AGCO has the FINAL SAY on what is or isn't allowed. This is no bull. Amsoil has fine products and I have used them for years. But I would get something in writing from AGRO as to what fluids are allowed to be used while your tractor is under warranty. I am only saying this because of my own personal experience with a very costly warranty repair. Remember, the first question the dealer asked was what fluids had I used.

 

[DMW]

Pathman, check out Petro Canada's Duratran synthetic. An all season fluid that meets every major tractor manufacturer's specs. You'll have to call for prices from a Petro Canada bulk fuel distributor. Given your location, there should be one nearby.
http://lubricants.petro-canada.ca/en/products/567.aspx
http://lubricants.petro-canada.ca/resource/download.aspx?type=TechData&iproduct=995&language=en

 

[ray66v]

So let me see here, if I use your product and go out on a -30 degree F morning and fire up my tractor and start plowing snow with no warm up.

Doug

Who the **** SAID THAT???

 

[ray66v]

All I am trying to say, is to be careful what fluids you use WHILE UNDER WARRANTY. AGCO has the FINAL SAY on what is or isn't allowed.
Remember, the first question the dealer asked was what fluids had I used.

Yes, and they say Permatran OR equivalent. This means you can use other fluids.

If your that worried about what they think, tell them you used Permatran.

 

[tx2310]

Who the **** SAID THAT???

You did by saying

"if you stick to Permatran you will also have to stick to the 20-30+ minute warm up schedule in your owners manual for cold weather operation. Or the day when you CAN'T wait the 30 minutes, because you have to go to work."

Where does it say if I use your oil (that meets the "or equivalent") I don,t have to warmup per the manual! OK you said 5 min. My main point was the covered under warranty. What you do after the warranty is between you and your insurance company.

Doug

 

[ray66v]

Ok Doug, let me try to explain it for you,

I said:

"Each time you fire it up, and run all that cold, heavy, unable to lubricate well quite yet, Permatran oil through the pump, for 30 minutes warming it up, its probably not hurting it that much. Or the day when you CAN'T wait the 30 minutes, because you have to go to work. So you only give it 5 minutes and then run the heck out of it plowing the drive, probably won't hurt the trans. or shorten its life that much".

Meaning, because Permatran does not lubricate well at low temperatures it is actually not doing a good job of protecting your transmission and your pump from wear during the process. The fluid needs to be brought up to temperature before operating, because it can't do its job cold. Remember, engineers agree your greatest amount of wear is in a cold start.

This is why there are synthetic oils. They lubricate much better in temperature extremes greatly reducing wear.

I prefer to take advantage of this in my tractor. You are welcome to use what you like in yours.

 

[tx2310]

Did You not read I am a supporter of synthetic oils? I understand the advantages of synthetic oils. Where does it say that Permatran does not lubricate well at low temperatures and yours does? It probity does, but saying that your oil is so much better in cold weather to the point you do not need to follow the manual? I have not found anything showing one is better then the other to the point it does not need to warm up per the manual. As long as the tractor is under warranty following the manual is a good idea. So jump on the tractor start it up and have at it. It's your tractor.

Doug
Not a oil dealer.

 

[jaybrad]

I remember a time when the Harley dealer told me a similar story about using synthetics. "Use only Harley oil" they said. Then it was "synthetics are too slippery and will cause problems with the roller bearings" they said.

Then a few years later, Harley started promoting their own synthetic oil and started using this from day 1 in their new machines. Interesting.

I use synthetic oil in everything we own: 2 cars, motorcycle, lawn mower, generator, chainsaw, string trimmer thing - and when it's time for my 50 hour service, it will also go into my 2310.

I'm NOT an Amsoil dealer (and in fact use Mobil 1 more often than Amsoil, just because it's easier to find in rural Maine), but I have heard stories about Amsoil going to bat for consumers when someone threatens to not honor a warranty because of their product. I'm also not an attorney and can't cite case law - but statements like this are all over the Internet in just about every user group.

But it's my understanding that a company cannot force you to use their brand of lubricant, or spark plug, or whatever. I think if there is a problem, you need to document what you used and when, but beyond that the company would bear the burden of determining that an inferior lubricant caused the problem - and I'm sure the Amsoil gang would be very interested if a manufacturer made such a claim about their lubricants.

But the bottom line is that it's your machine. Use what you want. It's well documented that one of the hardest times on an engine is when it is first started and the oil is in the pan. Makes sense to me that if the oil can flow at a lower temperature, it will get into the engine quicker.

YMMV, but I'll be ordering some Amsoil as soon as I can find a dealer - or I'll set myself up as a "preferred customer" and order it directly.

Jay

----
2005 Saab 9-5 Arc (0W-40 Mobil 1)
2003 Toyota Camry (0W-30 Mobil 1)
2003 Harley FLTHCI (Amsoil in engine, primary, and transmission)
1998 Generac generator (0W-30 Mobil 1)
198? Jonsered chain saw (Amsoil 100:1 oil)
2008 Massey Ferguson GC2310 (< 20 hours so far )
'nuf said....

 

[WilliamBos]

If it is parked in a garage, plugged in, the warm up time should be less, regardless of permatran or amsoil or anyone elses fluid, should it not??

 

[tx2310]

Absolutely, the garage will be about 72 F year around. No need to plug in.

Doug

Synthetics in all my motors except the pushmower , cementmixer and semi in the plane.

 

[jaybrad]

I'm going out on a limb here, but guessing that a garage in Tx may be a bit warmer in the winter than a garage in Ontario, unless it's heated.

Our garage is insulated, but unheated, which prevents it from getting bitter cold and is just right as a walk-in refrigerator in the winter, just right for storing beer. Mmmmm.

Does the block heater affect the transmission oil? I thought it only warmed the engine oil.

Jay

 

[tx2310]

Heated and AC. but it will be in eastern Ohio. The block heater will not heat the trans axle since it has a drive shaft between them.

Doug
Digging the basement.

 

[ray66v]

Did You not read I am a supporter of synthetic oils? I understand the advantages of synthetic oils. Where does it say that Permatran does not lubricate well at low temperatures and yours does? It probity does, but saying that your oil is so much better in cold weather to the point you do not need to follow the manual? I have not found anything showing one is better then the other to the point it does not need to warm up per the manual. As long as the tractor is under warranty following the manual is a good idea. So jump on the tractor start it up and have at it. It's your tractor.

Doug
Not a oil dealer.

Trying not to get frustrated,

1. Clearly Permatran does not lubricate well at low temperatures. Thats why the 20 -30+ minute warm up! This should be obvious. They do not require this in manual transmissions.

2. What I am hopelessly trying to explain is, while it is warming up, it is not being lubricated as well by the Permatran as it would be by the synthetic. The manufacturers of the synthetic oils do say you can shorten the warm up. Because it is capable of lubricating at much lower temperatures than is possible with mineral oils. I never said that you light it and go, I never suggested any particular amount of time. The main point I have been trying to make is in reference to the amount of wear your getting during these warm ups, and during use, if the warm up was inadequate. Highlighting the fact that this wear can be reduced and possibly eliminated by using a lubricant that will perform better under these conditions.

The engineers at Amsoil can provide you with the technical data for comparison purposes. They were able to convince me, and many others, who weren't afraid to use the product.

 

[pathman]

well thanks for all the input guys, I think that this would be a great garage discussion with some of that strong beer buddy in Onterio was talking about... Anyways, I've always used synthetic oil in my toys too and Ithink I'm going to try and find an Amsoil distributer around here, I'm not too worried about the 20-30 min warm up since the 2310 ins in a semi heated garage.