Finishing mowers

[mikehaugen]

I agree that you should be deducting this. A few hours here or there for charity is one thing, but it sounds like you are putting a lot of time and effort into this and you should be getting something back.

I am watching this thread closely, I do an occasional side job "hogging" and have thought a few times about getting a flail mower instead just because of the safety factor since the jobs I do are so infrequent I don't carry insurance... (I know I am gonna get roasted for that statement). Leonz is always praising flail mowers and I was just trying to hear some other opinions as I am readily being convinced that they are the way to go. Although I realize that the blades are somewhat different for rough cutting versus finish mowing.

 

[quicksandfarmer]

I agree that you should be deducting this. A few hours here or there for charity is one thing, but it sounds like you are putting a lot of time and effort into this and you should be getting something back.

I am watching this thread closely, I do an occasional side job "hogging" and have thought a few times about getting a flail mower instead just because of the safety factor since the jobs I do are so infrequent I don't carry insurance... (I know I am gonna get roasted for that statement). Leonz is always praising flail mowers and I was just trying to hear some other opinions as I am readily being convinced that they are the way to go. Although I realize that the blades are somewhat different for rough cutting versus finish mowing.

There seems to be a lot of over-selling of flail mowers going on. Or at least it doesn't square with my experience. I have a flail mower, a rotary mower (ie bushhog) and a lawn tractor, and each has its purpose. The flail mower is better at rough mowing than the lawn tractor, and better at fine mowing than the rotary mower. But the rotary mower is better at rough mowing and the lawn tractor is better at fine mowing.

I couldn't get anyone to take my hay this year so I just mowed it, it was about four feet high. I can't even take the flail mower in there, it would jam in a heartbeat. With the rotary mower I mowed in 1L, which my owner's manual says is 5.6 mph, about as fast as I care to go through four feet of grass. The tractor handled it without hesitation. One field I wanted a little neater so I took the flail mower in after I rotary mowed it. In 4H it lugged the engine and snapped a shear bolt after a couple of minutes, so I took it down to 3H, which the owner's manual says is 2.4 MPH. Same field, same tractor, I can mow it more than twice as fast with the rotary than with the flail.

If I encounter a fallen branch when mowing with the rotary mower I go over it. With the flail mower I go around it. The flail mower is more delicate and requires more maintenance and repair.

Now, the lawn tractor can't handle a hayfield, even one that's been rotary mowed, so the flail beats it there. However, on a lawn the lawn tractor cuts better. To do a good job cutting a mower has to generate updraft, where the grass is swept up before it is cut. A real lawnmower generates updraft, a flail mower doesn't. A lawnmower also does a better job dispersing the clippings, the flail mower tends to leave them in clumps.

As an aside, I've found that one pass with the rotary mower, one with the flail and one with the lawn tractor does a pretty good job of turning a section of hayfield into lawn.

 

[jenkinsph]

I have a 9 year old Rhino FM 100 that looks like has finally bitten the dust. I have used the heck out of it and am not disappointed. I am looking at the Rhino TM 100 or the Befco Cyclone C 70-110 for the replacement. Anybody have any ideas on the 2 mowers or other single deck mowers in the 100 inch range. I don't want to cut back to 90"'s with the Woods or Landpride lines because I cut 30 to 40 acres a week and it takes long enough with the 100 incher. I am afraid to get the batwing models because of complexity and initial cost. Any suggestion or thought would be appreciated. TIA

I think anything you do to replace your existing fm with something more suitable for a better quality finish is going to cost big bucks initially. While I agree with others about wide area mowers such as used by golf courses and other large campus settings they ain't cheap. I also like the great finish cuts of reel mowers but these are much more problematic to transport too and maintenance is more involved.

Mowing that much grass frequently on a tight budget is likely the real issue, I can see that the cost of the better equipment even though it produces a superior cut may be beyond what you can recoup. My suggestion is to buy a new finish mower of your liking and rebuild the older one to keep as a spare.

edit:
Now that I see you are doing this on a volunteer basis I am convinced you don't need to spend more than is necessary. I agree with others too, this should be a tax deduction for you.

 

[leonz]

I think anything you do to replace your existing fm with something more suitable for a better quality finish is going to cost big bucks initially. While I agree with others about wide area mowers such as used by golf courses and other large campus settings they ain't cheap. I also like the great finish cuts of reel mowers but these are much more problematic to transport too and maintenance is more involved.

Mowing that much grass frequently on a tight budget is likely the real issue, I can see that the cost of the better equipment even though it produces a superior cut may be beyond what you can recoup. My suggestion is to buy a new finish mower of your liking and rebuild the older one to keep as a spare.

edit:
Now that I see you are doing this on a volunteer basis I am convinced you don't need to spend more than is necessary. I agree with others too, this should be a tax deduction for you.

This was one of the reasons I suggested he look at the
three used JD390 flailmowers for sale in Tractor House.

Even if he bought all three of the used 390's for sale he
would have spent less money overall and he would have
had 2 back up mowers-not that he would need them in
my opinion.

Candidly, rebuilding the old mower with their method
will not make the job safe as the entire mower has been
stressed by the damage caused by the broken top plate sheet steel.

 

[leonz]

I did not think I was over selling flailmowers, I thought i was simply explaining the advantages of the flailmowers use of aerodynamics in mowing.

The amount pressure gradient(suction) created by a rotary mower is minimal as only the very ends of the mower blades are used to create minimal lift and the blades throw the massed material from one side of the deck to the other or from front to rear. The cutting surfaces of a rotary mower only offer mininal lift compared to every side slicer or scoop knive of any flail mower new or used.




if you are mowing at a low cutting height with four foot grasses the issue is penetration of the heavy grasses.

A higher height of cut will work but you will create less of a pressure gradient becuase of the higher cutting height adjustment.

If you had a higher horsepower rated flailmower this would not be an issue as the ground surface is also used in the directing of the air flow when mowing as the surface of the ground is used as the bottom of the air duct channeling the air flow over the flail mower rotor.


Do you have an old very wide Mott with the 288 count 4 inch finish knives that are very thin in thickness?

Does your flailmower have the trash door that can be removed to aid in mowing?

Do you ever mow with a half cut when you use it for heavy grass loads?

A flailmower of any type generates a greater amount of pressure gradient(suction)under the flailmower hood for the following reasons;

1. There are more total mower knive edges s creating more aerodynamic lift in the verticut method of mowing at all times versus the limited length of the six cutting edges in a three rotor finish mower.
And the baffles if used simply direct the clippings to the side or rear.



2. The hood is also acting as the top of an air duct to channel the air flow created by the side slicers, scoop knives or hammer knives in any case because of the side slicers or scoop knives and this is what lifts and throws the clippings over the flail mower rotor at all times in rear or forward discharge of the clippings and the ground surface is used as the bottom of the air duct in practice to aid in creating the air duct and adding resistance to create the air flow to create the pressure gradient which makes it so effective.

 

[jenkinsph]

leonz,
The man is volunteering to help out his community, hopefully he can get his existing finish mower repaired without too much cost. Don't really know what the problem with his fm is yet but it likely can be fixed. I would sincerely hope that TBN members as a group can provide some insight and pointers that benefit this goal.

 

[ironpen]

Well, I am going over to the NH dealer in the a.m. to meet with the welder and see what he says. I do agree with the post above.....I need a backup mower that I can use with my cab tractor. At age 62, I just don't tolerate the heat and dust like I used to.....but by golly I can do it if I have to!! I'll be surprised if I am cutting with anything but my belly mower this week on my tc33d NH. Their season starts next Monday and I'll have to cut everything twice this week to make it look manicured. I will also need to spray for ants to make sure no little legs get bitten on players and/or spectators. It'll all work out I'm sure. I'll keep everybody posted for those that are interested.

 

[clemsonfor]

There seems to be a lot of over-selling of flail mowers going on. Or at least it doesn't square with my experience. I have a flail mower, a rotary mower (ie bushhog) and a lawn tractor, and each has its purpose. The flail mower is better at rough mowing than the lawn tractor, and better at fine mowing than the rotary mower. But the rotary mower is better at rough mowing and the lawn tractor is better at fine mowing.

I couldn't get anyone to take my hay this year so I just mowed it, it was about four feet high. I can't even take the flail mower in there, it would jam in a heartbeat. With the rotary mower I mowed in 1L, which my owner's manual says is 5.6 mph, about as fast as I care to go through four feet of grass. The tractor handled it without hesitation. One field I wanted a little neater so I took the flail mower in after I rotary mowed it. In 4H it lugged the engine and snapped a shear bolt after a couple of minutes, so I took it down to 3H, which the owner's manual says is 2.4 MPH. Same field, same tractor, I can mow it more than twice as fast with the rotary than with the flail.

If I encounter a fallen branch when mowing with the rotary mower I go over it. With the flail mower I go around it. The flail mower is more delicate and requires more maintenance and repair.

Now, the lawn tractor can't handle a hayfield, even one that's been rotary mowed, so the flail beats it there. However, on a lawn the lawn tractor cuts better. To do a good job cutting a mower has to generate updraft, where the grass is swept up before it is cut. A real lawnmower generates updraft, a flail mower doesn't. A lawnmower also does a better job dispersing the clippings, the flail mower tends to leave them in clumps.

As an aside, I've found that one pass with the rotary mower, one with the flail and one with the lawn tractor does a pretty good job of turning a section of hayfield into lawn.

Curious are your numbers right why is 1L faster than 3H? I am taking it that L=low and H=high?

 

[leonz]

I hope the cracked steel in his mowers roof line and around the gearbox hole
is not as bad as it sounds I just hope th check the other welds but I do not
think they will.

 

[quicksandfarmer]

Curious are your numbers right why is 1L faster than 3H? I am taking it that L=low and H=high?

I got my low and high mixed up. I meant to say 1H and 3L. Oops.

 

[jenkinsph]

I hope the cracked steel in his mowers roof line and around the gearbox hole
is not as bad as it sounds I just hope th check the other welds but I do not
think they will.

leonz, steel plate and reinforcement flatbar and angle iron can be reworked easily. Why be so freaking negative about rotary mowers it weakens your case.

 

[ironpen]

Leonz, Thanks again for your reply. The steel around the gear box is not cracked or warped except right where the spindle goes through. The only crack is on the front of the deck where the anti-scalp roller attaches. The gear box sits above the deck on a separate piece and bolts on to the main body of the deck. The central spindle area that is bent is not cracked, it's just bent, causing the blade below to have a low and high side. As I understand it, the plan is to cut away the area just around the center spindle and remount it....level and at the same height as the two side spindles. The deck itself is still level and does not have a swag to it. He also is going to put some fresh steel around the area on the front edge where the roller attaches which should strengthen the center area of the deck as well. I'll get the game plan tomorrow and post it here.

 

[Cowboy Billy]

I use a 40+ year old mott flail mower behind my farmall 130. I mainly use to to mow my trails and in the woods as it doesn't through up big rocks or get caught on roots or stumps.

One thing about a flail mower that might help you is that it spreads all the clippings evenly across the entire cut. Rather than windrowing across the last cut you made.

Billy

 

[leonz]

Hello Steve,

I made that statement based on my work with underground mining
machinery, especially mining scoop buckets. I was not trying to be negative
I just do not want to see anyone get hurt.

 

[BraveheartGN]

Picked up a Ford 3000 about as old as I am and a 6' Mott flail mower of indeterminate age this last winter on CL for less than the price of a new flail mower. Have approx. 7 1/2 acres of horse pasture that was typically brush hogged about 2-3 times a year. This year I have been actively mowing it with the Mott and it does an amazing job - pasture has never looked this good and we are getting some really good green forage by keeping the flail at 6" height, despite the drought like conditions.

I've been pleasantly surprised at how well the mower has handled the job. I got a late start on the mowing and there were stalky (though not woody) weeds about 4+ feet tall in many sections - the mower did not get bogged down at all. I'd had some trepidation about the flail - when I was a kid we used to try to manage the mowing of this property with a tow behind self powered 4' Mott mower that was constantly outmatched by the property - getting bogged down, always losing blades, breaking the skid bar, etc. I seriously considered getting a brush hog this time around to prevent the maintenance/repair hassle of a flail. However, the "new" Mott has performed admirably - have not even lost a blade yet. And I believe the time I spent initially cutting it was comparable to the time spent by the guy who brush hogged it - cutting time since has gotten quicker.

A rotary cutter is an excellent tool for getting the "first pass" of a really overgrown and woody field. But after that I've drunk the flail kool aid. I am just truly impressed that machinery with a combined age of approximately 70 years performs so well and efficiently.

If I can figure out a way to quickly and easily readjust the height of the flail I may add some of the lawn to its tasks...

 

[jenkinsph]

BraveheartGN,
Good to hear your pasture is improving. Frequent mowing over a year will do alot of good for your pasture. Generally speaking weeds have a hard time competeing with grass if you keep them mowed down. Soil analysis, amendments seed and fertilizer can be very beneficial in the long run. My experience is that grass is easier to maintain than weeds, grass grows much more evenly whereas weeds pop up high quickly. I also try to let the grass grow a little taller in the fall when the weeds have subsided as it allows the grasses to root better. Winter fertilizer will help the grass roots grow thicker during the winter months too. With some tlc the grass can choke out most of the weeds.

 

[BraveheartGN]

Thanks for the advice! I will definitely add those items to the list!

 

[ironpen]

Ok, the welder has been at work. It turns out there was a small amount of swag in the middle of the deck, so that had to be heated and straightened and reinforced. The middle spindle was not able to be reused. That was a surprise. The cracks in the front of the deck around the roller were repaired and look good. One of the tensioner pulleys was grinding and will need replacement. I am not sure what all this is going to cost, but if it works like a new one (fingers crossed on that), I will be ok with it....I guess. Unable to locate a Rhino TM100 anywhere if the USA. I am thinking about getting a Woods 990 as a backup (or primary). The church has agreed to buy it...I'll give them the money, but since I only use it at the church I don't feel that's unethical and that will help on taxes for me. I just hope the Woods, if I get it, will go low enough, because the minimum height is 1.5 inches. Interestingly, the blades hook on like a bush hog, with two blades that are free swinging on each spindle. It must be fairly heavy duty because it weighs 1330 pounds. The rhino I have now weighs a little over 1100. Would anybody worry about the 1.5 inch minimum??

 

[jenkinsph]

ironpen,
Will the repairs be completed in time for your mowing schedule? Hope so.
Why not inquire of the athletic coaches about the grass height, see what they think.

As for buying the new finish mower I suggest you get the one you wan't long term, don't think I would buy the smaller mower if you wan't the larger one. I can't see any ethics problems no matter how you slice it, you have for all practical purposes worn out your own mower helping out. It would be great if the other members collectively would help defray some of these costs for you.

 

[ironpen]

Well, the Rhino FM100 (my old mower) is still hospitalized. I got the Woods 990 yesterday and it cuts great......however in order to get down to 2" cutting height, the side skids absolutely ate up the field when I made any turns. After looking at the situation, the skids were absolutely no more than 1/4" off the ground. I was ready to send it back but I began looking at the situation and I decided to take the skids off, turn them upside down and rebolt them. I will need to trim down one small area of the skid just a touch to get it to completely fit flush, but I mowed again with the skid inverted and it was perfect. I did not really notice the lost 10 inches of width. I am surprised that Woods would make such a design flaw. There is no doubt this is an error. The mower would have worked ok without the skids, but I wanted the extra beef on the sides so when I bump into trees cutting around them, I won't bend in the sides of the mower. The Woods transports much better than the Rhino, the belts are much better protected and the cut is a little more even. A good machine. Not sure which I will use once the repairs are finished on the Rhino, but most likely the Woods.