Grading final grading help needed

s1120 · Jul 12, 2003

Well, I am not sure, but it looks like I may have to do some grading around my new house. The rough grading is done, but it needs to be final graded, raked, and seeded for lawn. Now I am thinking a landscape rake will probably do the job, but I may have one problem. The back part of the yard is over where they put the septic system. Will driving over the system with my 8N cause any problems to it? Some areas are a little soft, but the "builder"rough graded it with bigger stuff, I would think I would be fine with the little N, but figured I would run it past you guys.

Also, any tips for me with the landscape rake? I do not have one at this time, so I will either be buying one, or renting. What size would be good for an old 8N?

As far as seeding. I have been thinking of getting a PTO powered spreader for spreading fertilizer,[I have about 3 acres of lawn, that's a lot of walking with a hand spreader /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif] Are they any good at laying seed?

Thanks for any help. This is my first tractor, and wile I have been reading about all of your projects for the last 3 years, now that it time for me to do them myself, I am finding out that I still have a lot to learn. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

thcri · Jul 12, 2003

s1120,

On three different occasions I have tilled up an area for seeding. These areas are larger areas and make it tough to do any watering on a normal basis. On all three areas I have tilled the soil, then used my Herdseeder M96 3 point to spread the seed. Then right after spreeding the seed I took an old drag and ran across it to bury the seed some. Now this works best in the later fall when your ground temperatures are still warm overnight but it's not hot during the day to burn any of the seed. The final step was to spreed a good fertilizer with a high nitrogen amount. This is on the top layer so the nitrogen can trickle down over the seed from moisture or rain. I also spread the seed higher amounts than recomended as you will also get new growth the following spring.

You can also rent a drill to pull behind your tractor to drill the seed in. My problem around here is not one of the rental places had one for rent. The landscape people are the only ones and they would not rent out, they wanted to plant and sell me the seed. Couldn't afford it.

murph

Libertine · Jul 12, 2003

s1120:

Your 8n should easily handle a 6' rake. Whatever size be sure it is wider than the tractor. The rake will not "grade" very well but if area is already "rough" graded should be ok (unless you're looking for a golf course).

You didn't specify the type of soil you have? Loamy, clay, or ?. If clay you will need to till in something to "cut" it (sand, peat moss, etc.).

Also, you really should roll it after seeded and preped to press seed to soil for better germination. Two 55 gal drums welded together, bolt some pipe flanges to the center of each end and add pieces to attach to the draw bar. Fill with water for weight (drain when done for easy handling).

Your 8n is a good tractor that could handle dozens of implements up to and including a pull behind combine harvester (See old ads for Dearborn implements - if you don't have those, send me a private message & I'll mail you a copy).

As thcri said, this is not best time of year to plant - of course, depends partly on rainfall in your area. 3 Acres a bit much for watering.

Take care.

JEH

chim · Jul 12, 2003

We have a little over two acres of grass. When we built, it was before I had a tractor - the 38" Ranch King didn't count. I acted as construction manager, hiring subs rather than having a single contract. The excavator's responsibilities ended with rough grading. I borrowed an old White tractor and chisel plow from Wifey's Dad to smooth things out a bit, then hired a farmer to disc it. Finally, I had a guy who was starting up a landscape business come in and seed the lawn. This approach was pretty cheap and worked out. As much as I enjoy seat time, I'd probably do it the same even owning tractors.

For spreading fertilizer, I picked up a tow-behind broadcast spreader at TSC or CT. For controlling the "on/off" I went to an auto parts store and got a hand throttle cable and rigged it for control from the seat. Worked fine until it was loaned out and came back broken............................chim

Slamfire · Jul 12, 2003

I'd rather have a grader blade than a landscape rake for grading. A three point doesn't work too well for this, much better to have one mounted ahead of the wheels on a towbehind arrangement. There are some carts used in horse drawn farming that will handle 3 point implements, but you'll have to look hard for one that'll do the job. The rake would do a good job of pulling out rocks, but you'd want some kind of drag for smoothing. I got a tounge of a house trailer that I drag on chains. But it overfills and dumps itself from time to time.

higgy · Jul 12, 2003

Here in a farming community you can rent centrifugal broadcasters for fertilizer from commercial suppliers. I rented one last week and put out 1400 lb of fert. The supplier make my NPK blend to order filled the broadcaster delivered and picked up the machine for a rental fee of $2.00 per acre.

Depending on your location and soil type, time of year and moisture levels the NPK ratio can change.

A good ag lab can run soil samples for you to determine the proper ratio for about $20.00.

Once you know the proper ratio for your area you can get nice results without guessing.

One thing to keep in mind is your micro nutrients. Here in Idaho we have basaltic soil which is basic, this ties up the iron, zinc and mag. When broadcasting fert. I put out sulfur which lowers the pH of the soil (make sulfuric acid with water, but not much) which frees up the metals. Here this leads to healthier plants as most of these metals are needed for plant growth. If you have an agricultural extension service in the area they should be able to tell you what type of soils you have.

Another good source of information for you local area is the National Resource Conservation Service (NRCS). Use the governmental assistance, you paid for it and generally speaking the people are professional and knowledgeable.

Just my 0.02.

s1120 · Jul 13, 2003

A three point doesn't work too well for this, much better to have one mounted ahead of the wheels on a towbehind arrangement. 

I don't know if I understand. Are you talking about something like the York rakes for small garden tractors that have to rear wheels, and a U shaped frame that goes over the rake, to a fixed hitch on the tractor? I had already decided that if I buy a rake, it WILL have gide wheels. I can not see how you can get a smooth, level, finnish on a 3ph without them.

As for smoothing, I was planing to make a drag out of a few old bed frames, and some steel I have laying around. I am thinking with a little added weight, it would work.

Carl_NH · Jul 13, 2003

s1120,

I would go with the 3PTH landscape rake with wheels, as I have a 6' grader blade and used this backwards to rough grade but for a smooth lawn and rock removal the landscape rake is best IMHO.

Your idea to drag bed springs with some weight is good but it may dig in where you don't want it too, so a 6' piece of chain link fence behind the rake would be good.

As to the septic, make sure there is at least 8-10" of soil on top and sides of the field, as this is the perennial brown out area due to all the sand. As to using a tractor on it I don't see a problem, but if you are sinking in a bit it may need more compaction near the edges. I presume you either have concrete chamber, or some rigid distribution system so this should not be a problem.

One other thing on compaction, don't run over the area a lot as it will compact the soil so grass will wash off rather than fill in. I learned the hard way since I used my cub cadet dragging a chain and a RR tie for my first lawn area, I had to go back and rototill the area again to loosen up the soil. Now I just rough grade it, go once over with a rake, then seed, then in the spring likely you will have some fill in areas where the soil has settled.

Hydro mulching is an option but IMO too expensive and I have had just as good of results with a good contractor seed mix and a mix of 10/10/10 and some high phosporus content for root growth. On seeding, all I have is a strap on hand spreader, and this can hold about 20LB of seed. Will take several hours to do this but is adequate. As stated before put it down heavier than recommended.

Trying to start a lawn in August can be difficult, and would be better in Sept, when evenings are cooler, but if you need to get it in then plan on watering to get it started.

Carl

Slamfire · Jul 14, 2003

Well every irregularity your tractor encounters either raises or lowers the implement on your 3 ph. If your grader blade mounts on a frame in front of the wheels that support it the bump is already changed when the wheels get to it.

MLB · Jul 14, 2003

THere is absolutely no improvement by seeding at a heavier than recommended rate. More is NOT better. Plants will be stunted if crowded too closely. Stunted top growth means shorter root system. Shorter root system means earlier dry out - read death of the plant.
Seeding recommendation rates have been coming DOWN that last few years.
I see a very large difference in a turf type tall fescue lawn being seeded at 7lbs per 1000 sq ' over the "normal" 10 lbs per. (with the 7lb being much thicker and less clumpy). Research at Purdue has them using 5.5lbs in some test plots.
If it isn't kept wet you could put down 20lbs per and it's still all going to die.
Seed is expensive.
Don't waste it.
/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

jinman · Jul 14, 2003

( I was planing to make a drag out of a few old bed frames, and some steel )

If you are planning on doing some final smoothing using a drag of your own design, you should consider chain-link fence. you can put some weight on top of the fence, or if the ground is loose enough, you can just tow the fence behind your tractor. Use a section about 10' to 12' long. I've used it for smoothing out gravel and it works pretty well /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif.

TC18guy · Jul 14, 2003

I'm definitely not an expert on the subject, but I am determined to do this myself and thought I'd share my experiences on the subject. I've got a simillar situation with my 2 acres - new house, rough grading by contractor, etc. My base soils are generally a sandy gravel mix with mostly decent top soils on the top 6" or so.

I've pretty much convinced myself that roto-tilling is a waste of time and doesn't accomplish much except stir up the weed seeds. I spray the whole area with Roundup and use my FEL for the coarse work and my 5'KK Landscape rake (wish I had gauge wheels) with a 10' Railroad tie on top (for weight) to loosen up the soil.

I then reverse the Rake 180 degrees and pull for final smoothing. IMO The reversed rake works better for smoothing than bedsprings and I can control it with the hydraulics. I seed with my walk-behind spreader or my Dad's tow-behind TSC model and press the seed with a 1/2 full roller (don't want too much compaction). Cover with straw and water.

The toughest part is keeping large areas watered. This is my 2nd year at it, I try not to stir up more than 1 acre at a time. It's hard for me to keep up with the watering.

I realize different soil types, etc. it may not be this easy but I thought I'd share my experiences.

tdenny · Jul 14, 2003

I'm not an expert either but I've planted some seed in the last couple of months. I used my box blade to do the real grading work and then used the landscape rake to prep the dirt for seeding. Unfortunately I had to use a walk behind spreader but all in all it has worked out well. This weekend I graded out another acre for seeding since it was so much fun. I'll wait until September to actually plant the seed though as it doesn't rain much here in August. Make sure you put on regular treatments of fertilizer 10-10-10 has been recommended in this thread and that's also what I've been using.

jmattox1 · Jul 14, 2003

Lots of good opinions here.

For what it is worth I just completed almost an acre area of seeding about 2 weeks ago. Some areas I tilled, seeded by hand out of a gal bucket then tilled in with my 5' tiller at its second setting (I think 1" deep). No Straw. It is looking really good now.

Other areas I had topsoil brought in filled in all kinds of ruts, lowspots etc., Hand seeded, hand raked in, no straw same water as other areas and nothing. Go figure-- Bad soil?? Not planted deep enough??

All I know every area I used or have used the tiller to set seed in the ground has or is growing grass beautifully.

fivestring · Jul 14, 2003

Paul, just be sure you don't compact the drain field area. If you disturb that, you'll have additional problems later on. Driving over it a couple of times to level it is probably ok.

MLB · Jul 14, 2003

( Lots of good opinions here.

For what it is worth I just completed almost an acre area of seeding about 2 weeks ago. Some areas I tilled, seeded by hand out of a gal bucket then tilled in with my 5' tiller at its second setting (I think 1" deep). No Straw. It is looking really good now.

Other areas I had topsoil brought in filled in all kinds of ruts, lowspots etc., Hand seeded, hand raked in, no straw same water as other areas and nothing. Go figure-- Bad soil?? Not planted deep enough??

All I know every area I used or have used the tiller to set seed in the ground has or is growing grass beautifully. )

Germination doesn't require soil so good or bad soil makes no difference. Doesn't even need to be buried, just in contact with the soil, and that's just to keep it wet longer. Nope, gotta be something else. My guess: tilled areas soaked up more water quickly, filled areas (with different soil) didn't percolate the water through at the same rate (more ran off) and it dried out.
Drying out is the ONLY reason for grass seed to not germinate. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

MLB · Jul 14, 2003

If you have to amend the soil, it's recommeded to till it into at least the top 4". Layering of different soils is a bad idea (though hard to avoid in the real world) , as you just discovered.

LBrown59 · Dec 27, 2004

( ( I was planing to make a drag out of a few old bed frames, and some steel )

If you are planning on doing some final smoothing using a drag of your own design, you should consider chain-link fence. you can put some weight on top of the fence, or if the ground is loose enough, you can just tow the fence behind your tractor. Use a section about 10' to 12' long. I've used it for smoothing out gravel and it works pretty well /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif. )
*******I have a drag I found in the weeds when I first moved here.
After I had the place graded off ( the whole 2.33 acres ) in 1971 I used it to smooth out and break up the soil into a very fine smooth consistency.

This thing is about 5 feet square with 4 or 5 rows front to back of what looks like railroad spikes.
The spikes are 10 to 12 inches apart going side to side on each row.

I hooked one end of a chain to each front corner of it and another short chain from the center of that chain to the hitch on my 1966 Bolens so I could drag it all over the entire 2.33 acres.

Done an excellent job for seed preparation.

I may need it again when
(if its still any account after all these years)
I get the back 3 Rd. of the property cleaned up of brush and junk trees resulting from my letting it grow up for the last 25 years.

I leaned it up against the wall in the shed when I got done with it in 71; where it's been for the last 33 years.

*

stuart · Jan 10, 2005

Saw your recommendation about using chain link fence as a DRAG and was wondering how you hook it up to your tractor and where you put the weight. Any help you can provide is appreciated. A picture of your drag also might help me if possible.