Filtering oil externally

[newbury]

I've been reading a little about bypass oil filters.
And it occurred to me that for the cost of a system for my F350, my TDI, my Civic, my E350, my Elantra, my Kubota that it would be a lot cheaper to just have 1 bypass filter system for ALL of them.

I'm thinking of something like a vacuum system to suck the HOT oil out the dipstick through an appropriate filter and into a tank. Then after it sucked and filtered all it could get just pump or pour the oil back into the vehicle.

So the scenario would be drive the vehicle till you got the oil hot, get home, pop the hood and hook up the system, filter the oil and put it back in.

It seems that doing something like that occasionally would be as effective as bolting on a system that did it all the time. With the synthetic oils it seems 20,000 miles would then be a reasonable oil change interval for all but the Kubota.

Comments?

Here's a Blackstone report for a guy who gets about 20K on dino oil in his F350 http://springerpop.net/F350/images/Blackstone-09.jpg

/edit - This would be in addition to the regular "factory" filtration system.

 

[dschuffert]

This is an interesting concept. I don't see the benefit of doing this once in a while. I have a 2011 F250 with a 6.7L diesel. I use the Amsoil bypass filter system. Prior to this I had a '05 F250 with a 6.0L diesel. On the 6.0 I did 15K mile intervals between oil changes. My Blackstone reports came back fine. The biggest issue with the 6.0 was how the injectors sheared the oil. The 6.7 is newer and I have been working my way up the mileage interval. I just sent in my latest sample with 12K on the oil and waiting for the report to come back. The biggest issue with the 6.7 is the fuel dilution due to the way the regeneration process works for the DPF cleaning.

The report you link in your post is missing the bottom half of the Blackstone report that shows fuel dilution, TBN, etc. It would help if he posted that too.

 

[oldnslo]

Unless I am missing something in your post I am confused on how occasional filtering will be better than continuos? Continuos filtering keeps the oil clean all the time while occasional filtering would only have it clean once or is this meant to be used in addition to the factory filters?

It is much easier to keep a reservoir clean that it is to clean up a dirty reservoir.

 

[newbury]

Unless I am missing something in your post I am confused on how occasional filtering will be better than continuos? Continuos filtering keeps the oil clean all the time while occasional filtering would only have it clean once or is this meant to be used in addition to the factory filters?

It is much easier to keep a reservoir clean that it is to clean up a dirty reservoir.

I did mean in addition to the regular continuous filtering. The "factory" filter does down to about 20 microns. "Bypass" filters go down a lot further, for example the Amsoil EaBP filters down to 2 microns.

 

[Diamondpilot]

In my opion, oil is cheap. Especially when you are talking about a $10,000 diesel engine.

I just feel better changing my oil. I know it never really wears out but additve packages do and it gathers dirt and impurities that the consumer like me and you will never filter out.

Chris

 

[newbury]

In my opion, oil is cheap. Especially when you are talking about a $10,000 diesel engine.

I just feel better changing my oil. I know it never really wears out but additve packages do and it gathers dirt and impurities that the consumer like me and you will never filter out.

Chris

It's not so much the cost of the oil. It's all the rest and the work involved. I've 2 7.3's and a TDI that can really use the fine filtering to extend their life beyond mine. One system would work for all. The installation alone in the TDI is a bear because of the cramped engine compartment.

And if I can readily have my oil interval at 20,000 miles that would mean 1/4 the cost of oil, which 15 quarts ran about $100. Blackstone only costs about $25.

Reading some of the reports on bypass filters it seem that filtering down to 2 microns is very effective in keeping all the engines running better.

 

[Egon]

At what micron level do the filters start removing the additives?

 

[clemsonfor]

In my opion, oil is cheap. Especially when you are talking about a $10,000 diesel engine.

I just feel better changing my oil. I know it never really wears out but additve packages do and it gathers dirt and impurities that the consumer like me and you will never filter out.

Chris

Exactly my thoughts!

Im thinking Why? Unless your runing a bunch of big trucks in a fleet and are trying to squeeze every penny you can by going to crazy oil change intervals why not just dump your oil every 6-10k for syn oil and call it good?? I can buy a mobil 1 oil change special on sale for less than $30 thats with a mobil 1 filter too. Unless you drive 100k miles a year it dont seem worth the effort and risk to me.

 

[newbury]

Exactly my thoughts!

Im thinking Why? Unless your runing a bunch of big trucks in a fleet and are trying to squeeze every penny you can by going to crazy oil change intervals why not just dump your oil every 6-10k for syn oil and call it good?? I can buy a mobil 1 oil change special on sale for less than $30 thats with a mobil 1 filter too. Unless you drive 100k miles a year it dont seem worth the effort and risk to me.

Where can I get a mobil1 oil and filter change for $30? 15 quarts plus of oil.
I've been using Rotella T6 at about $23.76/gallon w/ tax and the truck uses about 4 gallons with me rounding that to $100.


The regular filter only goes down to 20 microns, and I guess if you don't plan on keeping the vehicle long it's ok.

 

[oldnslo]

Can you just purchase better filters that will fit on your engines?

 

[clemsonfor]

Where can I get a mobil1 oil and filter change for $30? 15 quarts plus of oil.
I've been using Rotella T6 at about $23.76/gallon w/ tax and the truck uses about 4 gallons with me rounding that to $100.


The regular filter only goes down to 20 microns, and I guess if you don't plan on keeping the vehicle long it's ok.

Well not for a 7.3 PSD or anything but i can at least a few weeks ago, it may be over now (special that is) you could get a FIVE qt jug of Mobil 1 and filter for like $29.95. Its the same way will all oil change special's they dont cater to those 5% of passenger vehicles that hold more than 5 qts.

My answer still stands. I would get the oil change special and 2 additional jugs from walmart for like $25/peice. That would make your oil change $80. I would change it once a year and be done with it. You were also talking about a TDI so i really was talking about it.

If you have one failure do to prolonging oil changes all savings will be wiped.

Very few, actually no people i know that do "too frequent" oil changes have ever had an oil related failure, regardless of brand of oil.

 

[WilliamBos]

Post you vin numbers, that way it can protect folks from buying your vehicles when you deal them.

It's not so much the cost of the oil. It's all the rest and the work involved. I've 2 7.3's and a TDI that can really use the fine filtering to extend their life beyond mine. One system would work for all. The installation alone in the TDI is a bear because of the cramped engine compartment.

And if I can readily have my oil interval at 20,000 miles that would mean 1/4 the cost of oil, which 15 quarts ran about $100. Blackstone only costs about $25.

Reading some of the reports on bypass filters it seem that filtering down to 2 microns is very effective in keeping all the engines running better.

 

[sandman2234]

Without spending a bunch of time researching these bypass filter systems, and seeing just what you guys are talking about, I thought I would say something about the one part i read concerning pumping out the oil pan via the dipstick port, filtering it, and replacing it. I would be concerned that the oil deposits left on the bottom of the oil pan would pose a problem. What might not be picked up during a oil pump out might be shaken up and stirred into the mix while driving and pumped thru the engine. A continuous filtering might be better, but much more expensive, unless it is a simple oil line to the firewall mounted oil filter like I had on a p/u years ago. 3 oil filters every oil change wasn't cheap, but the oil did stay cleaner for longer (visibly cleaner). Don't know what th'at did for the additives but I didn't change the oil as frequently. Sold the truck, so if there was a problem, it became somebody else's problem. (a problem I would gladly take back, since it was a 1955 Chevy Cameo)
David from jax

 

[Johnp33]

I was involved with a test of a synthetic oil in an N14, we installed spinner filters and an oil drain hose so we could fill the oil sample bottle without draining the oil or using the vacuum system Cat uses. when the N14's came out they had an injector problem they did not work, we were in the engines quite a bit every week and there were twelve engines involved 6 got the synthetic, 6 got Delo 400. after a very short time the engines with the synthetic were full of a black jelly, we did main bearings at 200,000 Kilometers the first go round, and at 250,000 after that.
When the trucks had about 500,000 K they did the cost analysis, when the costs of the oil analysis and the fact the oil usage was higher with the synthetics, I had kept all the bearings tapped together with WO numbers on them I asked everyone to write down the 6 sets of bearings that were in the best shape. They wrote down the WO #s the company rep from the synthetic oil company was there and precipitated. These trucks worked 22 hours a day two 11 hour trips over 2 mountain ranges pulling 144,000 lbs of chips.
When the chose the best bearing sets I read out the number that had used the Delo 400, not one person had chosen a set I did not read out. Every engine was converted to Delo 400 when the standard oil change intervals came up, a gallon of ATF was added 1/2 hour before they came in to the shop for the oil change to clean them out.
I like the use of a bypass oil system, personally I change my oil early, and use Shell Rotella 15/40 Dyno. I do not have a bypass filter system.

 

[clemsonfor]

Without spending a bunch of time researching these bypass filter systems, and seeing just what you guys are talking about, I thought I would say something about the one part i read concerning pumping out the oil pan via the dipstick port, filtering it, and replacing it. I would be concerned that the oil deposits left on the bottom of the oil pan would pose a problem. What might not be picked up during a oil pump out might be shaken up and stirred into the mix while driving and pumped thru the engine. A continuous filtering might be better, but much more expensive, unless it is a simple oil line to the firewall mounted oil filter like I had on a p/u years ago. 3 oil filters every oil change wasn't cheap, but the oil did stay cleaner for longer (visibly cleaner). Don't know what th'at did for the additives but I didn't change the oil as frequently. Sold the truck, so if there was a problem, it became somebody else's problem. (a problem I would gladly take back, since it was a 1955 Chevy Cameo)
David from jax

He is still using a standard spin on factory filter. So i guess he figures any small amout of oil there will just be filterd by OE filter.

Its kind of like doing a ATF change you only get the 4-5 qts in the pan and the filter, the rest is old, but do them enough you will dilute the old with enough new fluid to "renew" it.

 

[WilliamBos]

He is still using a standard spin on factory filter. So i guess he figures any small amout of oil there will just be filterd by OE filter.

Its kind of like doing a ATF change you only get the 4-5 qts in the pan and the filter, the rest is old, but do them enough you will dilute the old with enough new fluid to "renew" it.

And that is the best way of doing it. If you want to kill a trans, powerflush will take care of that.

 

[PioneerMan]

I don't know if this covers the question, but I don't think you will get decent results by pumping the oil out and back in. I think a light duty by pass system filters 25-50 gallons an hr. So I think the only way you could remotely filter oil is to put it into a sump and pump it for hours or days under filtration. Not cost effective I would think...

 

[Diamondpilot]

Without spending a bunch of time researching these bypass filter systems, and seeing just what you guys are talking about, I thought I would say something about the one part i read concerning pumping out the oil pan via the dipstick port, filtering it, and replacing it. I would be concerned that the oil deposits left on the bottom of the oil pan would pose a problem. What might not be picked up during a oil pump out might be shaken up and stirred into the mix while driving and pumped thru the engine. A continuous filtering might be better, but much more expensive, unless it is a simple oil line to the firewall mounted oil filter like I had on a p/u years ago. 3 oil filters every oil change wasn't cheap, but the oil did stay cleaner for longer (visibly cleaner). Don't know what th'at did for the additives but I didn't change the oil as frequently. Sold the truck, so if there was a problem, it became somebody else's problem. (a problem I would gladly take back, since it was a 1955 Chevy Cameo)
David from jax

This is really not a issue. Been done this way for 50 years in marine applications and stationary generators. Its also seen on some imports with no drain plug.

Chria

 

[Z71]

At what micron level do the filters start removing the additives?

Filters cannot remove additives, those are at the molecular level.

 

[newbury]

This is really not a issue. Been done this way for 50 years in marine applications and stationary generators. Its also seen on some imports with no drain plug.

Chria

RE:removing oil thru dipstick
It seems to be quite common on Jetta TDI's, especially for those peeps who have put on a bellypan for protection.